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DarthSkywalker0
DarthSkywalker0

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on September 8th 2019, 5:58 pm
Disagree, RotS is flawed but at the same time a masterpiece and one of the most iconic stories of all time.

Disagree but understand the sentiment. 
Not sure, would've agreed had TLJ been good, as TFA did give nostalgia and set up some fascinating mysteries, but they were ruined.


Disagree, TFA is bad independent of TLJ. It resets the ground rules, devalues ROTJ, creates a horrible main character, and copies ANH. Also, a lot of the so-called fascinating mysteries that were supposedly squandered in TLJ were actually squandered in TFA. To quote Daisy Ridley, Han Solo, and JJ Abrams. 


I thought a lot was answered in ‘The Force Awakens’.Then after the screening I went for a drink with my agent and everyone, and we were chatting away and I realized that oh, in their minds it’s not answered at all!”


Han: [Luke] was training a new generation of Jedi. There was nobody else left to do it, so he took the burden on himself. Everything was going great, until… one boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just…walked away from everything.


“At this point in the story, thirty years after the fall of the Empire, Luke has gone to a dark place. He always had this potential dark side within him, being that his father was Darth Vader. So he is really struggling with that. He ended up secluding himself in this Jedi temple on a new planet, and he’s just there meditating, reassessing his whole life. Gradually, over the arc of the movie, he rediscovers his vitality and comes back to himself.” – Doug Chiang, May 2013, The Art of TLJ book


How is it fair to primarily blame the Last Jedi when JJ Abrams said that TLJ "is very much in line with what we were thinking as well."
SithSauce
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on September 10th 2019, 1:08 pm
@DarthSkywalker0 wrote:How is it fair to primarily blame the Last Jedi when JJ Abrams said that TLJ "is very much in line with what we were thinking as well."
I have doubts whether JJ actually believes that. It already looks like he is trying to retcon things in IX, but that could be due to fan backlash more than anything.
Latham2000
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on September 10th 2019, 6:42 pm
Dooku is overrated.
Trayus Marauder
Trayus Marauder

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on September 11th 2019, 1:02 am
Rogue One is one of the weakest SW movies
Kotor2>Kotor1
Ahsoka is overrated in terms of character quality as well as combat viability
Dark Empire was a really good series
Maul and RotJ Vader are underrated overall
Jedi Academy is VERY mediocre and one could argue that it is flat out bad
EA's Battlefront 2>the original BF2
Republic Commando is highly overrated
Force unleashed 1 and 2 get more hate than they deserve
King Joker
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on September 11th 2019, 1:20 am
I’m very curious about the idea that Ahsoka is overrated, given the fact that (to my knowledge) she only has a handful of “supporters” on the forum(s), and few deviate from the general consensus that she’s above Asajj Ventress but below Obi-Wan Kenobi/Darth Maul. Where’s this coming from?
Trayus Marauder
Trayus Marauder

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on September 11th 2019, 1:27 am
@King Joker wrote:I’m very curious about the idea that Ahsoka is overrated, given the fact that (to my knowledge) she only has a handful of “supporters” on the forum(s), and few deviate from the general consensus that she’s above Asajj Ventress but below Obi-Wan Kenobi/Darth Maul. Where’s this coming from?

This comes (mostly) from the various FB groups I'm in since that is where I debate primarily. I've legit seen people hold Ahsoka=Rebels Vader.

As for being above Ventress, that's arguable.
King Joker
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on September 11th 2019, 1:33 am
@Trayus Marauder: Oh, well Facebook is a cesspit from what I’ve heard.

Only if you’re of the mind that canon Vader sucks, I guess.  Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 2 1668617588
Trayus Marauder
Trayus Marauder

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on September 11th 2019, 1:35 am
@King Joker wrote:@Trayus Marauder: Oh, well Facebook is a cesspit from what I’ve heard.

Only if you’re of the mind that canon Vader sucks, I guess.  Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 2 1668617588

True to an extent but some are decent at debating whether they be people from KMC/CV or just people who possess skil at debating as well as lore knowledge. Places like SWEB are still decent. 

Funnily enough, it's not due to Vader lowballing. They simply put Ahsoka that high lol.
King Joker
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on September 11th 2019, 1:44 am
A whole reservoir of Ahsoka wankers I didn’t even know existed.  Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 2 1668617588  Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 2 1668617588  Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 2 1668617588

I can’t wait till February.  Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 2 4233314142
The Ellimist
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on September 11th 2019, 1:49 am
@King Joker wrote:A masterpiece? I... don't see it. I find the movie overall quite stale and requiring too much suspension of disbelief for the political machinations to make any sense. I mean, I actually somewhat enjoy watching RotS from time to time, but that's only because the EU and TCW made me emotionally invested in the characters, not because RotS did any legwork on that front.

Put it this way: there's a reason why we still talk about the events surrounding RotS so frequently. I know that's not the sole metric by which you can judge a film, but it's one of them. It also has some of the best scenes in the saga, like Yoda vs. Sidious and Anakin and Padme staring.

I've always hated the idea that non-Force sensitives could defeat Jedi in combat, barring extreme circumstances.

Yeah; I think writers understate the ways that you can take on Jedi through stacked means (e.g. massed firepower, snipers, big bombs, etc.) and seriously overstate the way that you can with two blasters and a jetpack.

Same goes with Grievous.

I knew this was gonna be my hottest take, but I feel like most of the Star Wars soundtracks are only revered by some people because of the nostalgia they hold. Like, some are really good, but a lot of them are very boring to me, and just generally not my cup of tea. Like, I remember thinking to myself while watching Avatar: The Last Airbender and thinking, 'This is so much better than Star Wars,' lol.

I guess Star Wars's soundtrack is pretty context dependent; it works really well with the films, and in certain moods. But Williams succeeded in creating an entirely distinct "Star Wars" style, almost like its own mini-genre.

Sure, but when someone crosses from 'Jedi with a heart of gold' to 'rampaging Sith war criminal,' I feel a bit incredulous.

Well, I think the dark side is supposed to have drug-like effects. IIRC Mace in a novel even noted that a lot of the Jedi's super-strict stances were just out of a pragmatic understanding of how tempting the dark side is, and might not apply if the Force worked in a different way.

I don't think the addition of the gender comprising 50% of Earth's population should be treated as inherently forced or political, like some sexually and romantically challenged forum users may want to suggest.

That being said, the higher ups who keep pretending that the only reason anyone would dislike TLJ is misogyny really feed into a lot of stereotypes about SJWs.
The Ellimist
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on September 11th 2019, 1:52 am
LotF and FotJ were pretty entertaining series
Jar Jar doesn't bother me that much, but maybe it's because I don't watch TPM front-to-back that often
Vader's redemption, while iconic and great, seemed to have not been planned out well, like they suddenly decided it in RotJ with no apparent forehadowing
Red Letter Media is funny and makes some good points, but honestly makes some really dumb critiques of the Prequels
King Joker
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on September 11th 2019, 2:27 am
@The Ellimist wrote:Put it this way: there's a reason why we still talk about the events surrounding RotS so frequently. I know that's not the sole metric by which you can judge a film, but it's one of them. It also has some of the best scenes in the saga, like Yoda vs. Sidious and Anakin and Padme staring.

I feel like that's mostly in spite of many of the film's flaws, though. Like, there are definitely some great scenes, but I'm usually not moved by them because of Lucas's writing—it's usually due to the score (which, admittedly, Williams is at his best in RotS) and sometimes the cinematography. The technical aspects of RotS are sound, but it's the staleness of the story, which I can only really alleviate through the EU, that makes the whole movie sink for me.

Yeah; I think writers understate the ways that you can take on Jedi through stacked means (e.g. massed firepower, snipers, big bombs, etc.) and seriously overstate the way that you can with two blasters and a jetpack.

Same goes with Grievous.

TCW had the right idea of how to handle these things when they wrote the Umbara arc with Pong Krell. Too bad that sort of thing wasn't more consistent, though.

I guess Star Wars's soundtrack is pretty context dependent; it works really well with the films, and in certain moods. But Williams succeeded in creating an entirely distinct "Star Wars" style, almost like its own mini-genre.

I can't really argue Williams score on objective merits like impact, which are certainly inarguable. His style generally speaking, though, just isn't for me.

Well, I think the dark side is supposed to have drug-like effects. IIRC Mace in a novel even noted that a lot of the Jedi's super-strict stances were just out of a pragmatic understanding of how tempting the dark side is, and might not apply if the Force worked in a different way.

I've learned to conceptualize the dark side as basically methamphetamine, yeah; but the complete 180 of morality characters go through are still hard to comprehend at times—especially when the drug-like aspect is sometimes brushed over, imo.

That being said, the higher ups who keep pretending that the only reason anyone would dislike TLJ is misogyny really feed into a lot of stereotypes about SJWs.

Yeah, probably, but you have to admit there are scores of little weirdos (particularly on YouTube) that treat the mere suggestion of feminist themes, or just women in general, included in Star Wars as an inherent attack against men. There's a defensive and reactionary attitude in the Star Wars community that seems to be ignored for more sensationalist (and oblivious) conversations about 'the SJWs are taking over!'
The Witness
The Witness

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on September 11th 2019, 3:05 am
@Trayus Marauder wrote:
Maul and RotJ Vader are underrated overall
I'm guessing you mean underrated as combatants?
Definitely not underrated as characters. Vader himself is considered by many people as the best villain in movie history. And Maul has a pretty huge fan following
The Witness
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on September 11th 2019, 3:07 am
@The Ellimist wrote:
Red Letter Media is funny and makes some good points, but honestly makes some really dumb critiques of the Prequels
I felt half the time they were pretty much nitpicking.
Trayus Marauder
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on September 11th 2019, 9:17 am
Sam wrote:
@Trayus Marauder wrote:
Maul and RotJ Vader are underrated overall
I'm guessing you mean underrated as combatants?
Definitely not underrated as characters. Vader himself is considered by many people as the best villain in movie history. And Maul has a pretty huge fan following

Yes, I meant as combatants. I figured that both had fanbases big enough to rule out the idea that my "underrated" assessment was in reference to overall character quality.
Sjuttiosju
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on September 11th 2019, 11:29 am
That LOTF is an enjoyable if messy ride, with the final book being a genuinely solid work of writing.


Last edited by ScionOfSkywalker77 on April 21st 2020, 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
The Witness
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on September 11th 2019, 2:32 pm
@Trayus Marauder wrote:
Sam wrote:
@Trayus Marauder wrote:
Maul and RotJ Vader are underrated overall
I'm guessing you mean underrated as combatants?
Definitely not underrated as characters. Vader himself is considered by many people as the best villain in movie history. And Maul has a pretty huge fan following

Yes, I meant as combatants. I figured that both had fanbases big enough to rule out the idea that my "underrated" assessment was in reference to overall character quality.
I completely agree
O-Siri
O-Siri

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on September 12th 2019, 12:20 pm
TPM and AOTC are very good movies.

Aside from OCW, The Republic Comics, Shatterpoint, Legacy of the Jedi/Secrets of the Jedi, Labrinth of Evil, and to an extent the RotS Novel, I'm not a big fan of the Clone Wars Multimedia project and its novels and video game tie ins. 

By that same token, I'm not a huge fan of the pre-CW Quinlan Vos and Secura stories.

I actually like the other two Bane trilogy novels, the subplot and side characters of Dynasty of Evil, in particular, grew on me the second time, once I was no longer waiting for the good stuff to happen.

As much as I think Darth Plagueis the novel was a masterpiece I would have much preferred it if Plagueis had died right before TPM. IMO he should have been offed after the plot caught up to Shadow Hunter. 
Jake
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on September 12th 2019, 4:09 pm
@O-Siri wrote:I'm not a huge fan of the pre-CW Quinlan Vos and Secura stories.

🇪🇭
PeraltaEagle45
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on September 12th 2019, 5:54 pm
-Karen Traviss was a breath of fresh air for Star Wars authors
-FotJ was really entertaining
-TFA and TLJ had pretty solid and entertaining characters (for the most part), plot was the problem
-TPM is the worst of the original 6 movies
-AotC is a really solid movie, the romance stuff gets blown out of proportion
-I love it when non Force users defeat notable Jedi or Sith
-Republic Commando is at least among the top 5 pieces of Star Wars content we ever got
-SWTOR is a solid all-around game and is highly enjoyable
-Vong were awesome
-Grievous is overrated as a character, TCW still shanked him
-Starkiller doesn't deserve all the love nor the hate he gets
-Maul was more interesting post-TCW resurrection
-A lot of video game characters (such as Carth Onasi) are hated simply because they don't worship the PC, and not because they are actually bad characters
MasterCilghal
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on September 13th 2019, 7:59 am
@PeraltaEagle45 wrote:-Karen Traviss was a breath of fresh air for Star Wars authors
-FotJ was really entertaining
-TFA and TLJ had pretty solid and entertaining characters (for the most part), plot was the problem
-TPM is the worst of the original 6 movies
-AotC is a really solid movie, the romance stuff gets blown out of proportion
-I love it when non Force users defeat notable Jedi or Sith
-Republic Commando is at least among the top 5 pieces of Star Wars content we ever got
-SWTOR is a solid all-around game and is highly enjoyable
-Vong were awesome
-Grievous is overrated as a character, TCW still shanked him
-Starkiller doesn't deserve all the love nor the hate he gets
-Maul was more interesting post-TCW resurrection
-A lot of video game characters (such as Carth Onasi) are hated simply because they don't worship the PC, and not because they are actually bad characters
Interestingly enough, I agree with most of these.
O-Siri
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on September 13th 2019, 10:45 am
@SithSauce

I never had a problem with Yoda using a lightsaber
Me neither. 


@SithSauce

And finally, ROTJ is mediocre
IMO it's the worst of the original six and riddled with the most flaws, but still great overall. 


@BreakofDawn
ROTJ was better than ANH.
Nah. The characters are the main strengths of the OT and their chemistry is at it's best in ANH and ESB. Their interactions are really diluted in RotJ. Leia is practically a vegetable and Han is just a generic good guy with none of that smartmouth cocksure attitude that made him appealing in the first two. 


@King Joker
Combatants in general are probably a lot closer than we think (stomps should be few and far between)

Agreed. There are a lot of random factors that go into fights both in fiction and real life that can prolong or hasten a fight. 


@MasterCilghal
Jar Jar isn’t that bad as a character. 

Agreed. Chewbacca in ESB is honestly more grating to listen too IMO. 


@MasterCilghal
the prequels are better than the OT in many ways.

Yup. The OT is better in terms of likable characters but the PT has a more nuanced storyline, deeper lore and world-building, and larger and more diverse set pieces.


@Trayus Marauder wrote:Rogue One is one of the weakest SW movies

I've only listened to the audiobook for the novelization but  I agree. Even on the second listen my opinion wasn't swayed. Krennic is a very good villain and I really enjoyed the tie-in novel Catalyst, which I read prior, but it's just so dark and gloomy it's hard to get into.
SithSauce
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on April 21st 2020, 5:54 am
Bump!
Round 2

I personally find Sidious's apprentices far more interesting as characters than Sidious himself.
Dave Filoni is overrated. I just think he gets way too much credit these days. He's done a lot of good for Star Wars but he's done a lot of bad as well.
The Darth Bane Trilogy is great.
TFA still remains the best out of the Sequel Trilogy.
Solo is probably the second best Disney Star Wars movie after Rogue One.
Vader while probably a little below Maul in sabers, is Dooku+ as a force user and overall combatant.
Plagueis and Tenebrous aren't as great as a lot of people say they are IMO.
Starkiller is criminally underrated.

Those are all the opinions I have at the top of my head.
SithSauce
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on April 21st 2020, 5:56 am
Can one of the MODS please move this thread to the general discussion as it isn't a Legends only exclusive thread thanks.
SithSauce
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on April 21st 2020, 2:42 pm
Sponsored content

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