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The Reborn Emperor
The Reborn Emperor
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

November 30th 2020, 1:39 pm
We don't know anything at all about how powerful he is. We just know he was knowledgeable.

No, we kinda do. He was a Banite Sith around the end of the line, so he's a way more powerful version of Bane with the ability to manipulate time.
SnowxElf
SnowxElf

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November 30th 2020, 2:01 pm
@Meatpants Yeah, I didn't mean for those characters to sound weak, they're more powerful than most people realize. Which is really telling how powerful Sidious is considering how easily he killed them. 

Now Obi-Wan did face him. "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."

@Underachiever599 Thanks for responding to my post but I have to agree with Meatpants. Ramage definitely was extremely powerful, if a fodder character was able to utilize Ramage's knowledge to great effect without learning much of it this would likely mean Ramage himself was extremely powerful.
Underachiever599
Underachiever599

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November 30th 2020, 7:31 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
I want to specify, I'm not saying Ramage is weak. I'm saying we don't know how powerful Ramage is, outside of Banite scaling. All we know about Ramage is that he was a Banite sith and that he was knowledgeable. Knowledge is not equal to raw power, and Banite scaling is unreliable. Ramage's use of time manipulation doesn't, on its own, make Ramage immediately powerful. It's a feat of knowledge, not a feat of power, as I've proven with the example of Jax Pavan. And since we've never really gotten a story where Ramage was alive, and only know him through his holocron, we don't have any real feats or showings for him. Which leaves Banite scaling as the one and only way we can try to estimate how powerful Ramage may be.

Now, I have serious issues with Banite scaling. People like @Meatpants who say that people farther down the Banite line were all just more powerful versions of Bane are ignoring the actual reality as presented in the Darth Bane trilogy and the Plagueis novel. Zannah was not Bane's equal in terms of skill with a lightsaber or raw power in the Force. She wasn't a "more powerful version of Bane." Zannah's talent lay in esoteric magicks. Similarly, we have no reason to believe Cognus inherited Zannah's talent for Sith Sorcery. Instead, Cognus seemed to have a proclivity for farsight and disrupting the Force in others. Tenebrous was obsessed with using science to master the Force, and in supremacy with lightsaber combat. Plagueis couldn't care less for personal combat, and was dedicated to mastering the Force through midichorians. The Banite line isn't consistent. Apprentices in the Banite line aren't always better at absolutely everything than their Master had been. Each member that we see has their own strengths and failings, and the apprentices seldom adopt the traits inherent in their masters.

Bane's intent for the Rule of Two was for the Master to train the Apprentice until the Apprentice could beat the Master in a fair fight. In almost every instance we see where an Apprentice defeated the Master, it was not in a fair fight, but through circumstance. Zannah defeated Bane in a very situational duel, ultimately requiring the environment around them to utilize the spell that won her the fight. On any other world, Bane would have beaten her (which we nearly saw earlier in the same book). Tenebrous died when Plagueis redirected some falling rocks to kill his master while Tenebrous was distracted. Palpatine got Plagueis drunk and electrocuted him in his sleep. The Rule of Two doesn't work the way Bane intended. A Sith Apprentice doesn't need to surpass their Master in order to kill them, they just need to be more cunning.

Yes, sure, on average, a Rule of Two apprentice ultimately surpasses their master in raw power, or at least comes close. But I feel like there were undoubtedly setbacks in power through the line from apprentices who killed their masters through deceit, then never lived up to that same level of power. Do we even know if Zannah ever managed to garner the same level of raw power that Bane wielded? She passed on the RoT knowledge and grand plan to her apprentice, sure, but the very first apprentice right out of the gate is already an example of power loss, not power gain, through the Rule of Two.

With all that said, I don't believe every member of the Banite line is necessarily more powerful than the prior ones. I don't even believe all of them wound up being more powerful than Bane. Did they have more knowledge? Absolutely. More resources? Unquestionably. But more raw power? Not necessarily. Even Darth Bane himself saw this flaw in the Rule of Two by the end, and tried to end his own plan, deciding instead to seek immortality.
SnowxElf
SnowxElf

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

November 30th 2020, 11:32 pm
@Underachiever599

I agree with some of what you said; Ramage's power level is dubious some, he also is knowledgeable. 

As to Jax, he may of used Ramage's time powers but we don't know if he could use it to the same extent as Ramage, or correct me if I am wrong? Also, isn't knowledge usually synonymous with power?

As to Banite scaling being unreliable, there are several sources that say it was successful each generation, so I don't really see a reason not to buy it. Also, Sheev received a power boost through unknown means when he killed his master, even if unfairly. This probably has something to do with the growing power in the generations I assume which also likely happened the other Banites.
The Reborn Emperor
The Reborn Emperor
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

December 2nd 2020, 2:34 pm
A dozen quotes say each Banite became more powerful than the last, so you’ve got no leg to stand on. Ramage is a souped up Bane.
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Three
Level Three

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 9:26 am
Bump.

Sam Witwer's performance when voice acting Darth Maul in almost every episode/media he's in, is incredibly overrated. This might have something to do with Filoni's direction, or maybe it's just Witwer just having too much fun, but his performance is far too over the top. He growls, grunts and screeches too much. He habitually overacts to the point he sounds like a moustache twirly saturday morning cartoon villain, he legit sounds like he's masturbating voicing Maul. Add insult to injury, he sounds too radically different from Peter Serafinowicz' voice, except in the first few TCW episodes Maul appears in. Serafinowicz's Maul voice sounded cold-hearted, calculating and soothing. Witwer's Maul voice sounded hot headed, undisciplined and animalistic; it's practically the reverse.


TLJ is better than AotC.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 9:32 am
You haven't even seen any Star Wars movies Latham
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Three
Level Three

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 9:51 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:You haven't even seen any Star Wars movies Latham

I finished watching all 9 movies and all of the cartoons last week. I'm not a normie anymore.
Primarch
Primarch

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 10:01 am
All Maul did in TCW was scream. No idea why ppl liked him so much.
Vaelias
Vaelias

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 10:08 am
TLJ is NOT better than AOTC
AOTC is the best SW movie
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 10:48 am
King Adas stomps SF Malak.
Vaelias
Vaelias

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 10:57 am
@VictreebelVictr wrote:King Adas stomps SF Malak.

That isn’t an opinion that is incorrect, Unless something happens in SE that changes it
Primarch
Primarch

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 10:59 am
@VictreebelVictr wrote:King Adas stomps SF Malak.
That is impossible considering Adas is sub exiles who are sub Malak for 2 reasons.
Mysteryman06
Mysteryman06

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 11:15 am
@Latham2000 wrote:Bump.

Sam Witwer's performance when voice acting Darth Maul in almost every episode/media he's in, is incredibly overrated. This might have something to do with Filoni's direction, or maybe it's just Witwer just having too much fun, but his performance is far too over the top. He growls, grunts and screeches too much. He habitually overacts to the point he sounds like a moustache twirly saturday morning cartoon villain, he legit sounds like he's masturbating voicing Maul. Add insult to injury, he sounds too radically different from Peter Serafinowicz' voice, except in the first few TCW episodes Maul appears in. Serafinowicz's Maul voice sounded cold-hearted, calculating and soothing. Witwer's Maul voice sounded hot headed, undisciplined and animalistic; it's practically the reverse.


TLJ is better than AotC.

@Latham2000 I actually agree to an extent, but more so his performance as Starkiller
https://youtu.be/TKISMMeg9zA?t=124
The scream he does here specifically comes of as unintentionally cringeworthy in a rather serious moment
I think he is a lot better as Maul but that might be due to my personal bias as I prefer Maul a billion trillion times more as a character than Starkiller
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 11:17 am
Who said the opinions had to be accurate?
Mysteryman06
Mysteryman06

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 11:19 am
Also The Mandalorian S2 Finale was shit
Vaelias
Vaelias

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 11:19 am
@VictreebelVictr wrote:Who said the opinions had to be accurate?

Ok then it is my opinion that Grass is Blue, But it’s not sooo....
Tybalt
Tybalt

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 11:22 am
@Latham2000 Perhaps after playing Starkiller, Witwer wanted to give Maul an actual personality considering his portrayal in The Phantom Menace was fairly restrained. Instead, Witwer went from one extreme to another.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Four
Level Four

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 11:30 am
@Latham2000 wrote:Bump.

Sam Witwer's performance when voice acting Darth Maul in almost every episode/media he's in, is incredibly overrated. This might have something to do with Filoni's direction, or maybe it's just Witwer just having too much fun, but his performance is far too over the top. He growls, grunts and screeches too much. He habitually overacts to the point he sounds like a moustache twirly saturday morning cartoon villain, he legit sounds like he's masturbating voicing Maul. Add insult to injury, he sounds too radically different from Peter Serafinowicz' voice, except in the first few TCW episodes Maul appears in. Serafinowicz's Maul voice sounded cold-hearted, calculating and soothing. Witwer's Maul voice sounded hot headed, undisciplined and animalistic; it's practically the reverse.


TLJ is better than AotC.

Extreme bigfacts
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray
Moderator
Moderator

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 11:48 am
All the particularily noteworthy sith of their era (Adas, Pall, Hord, Malak, Vitiate, Dooku, Vader, Caedus etc.) are too powerful to get stomped or easily beaten by one another. Same likely applies to jedi (Urr, Nomi, Revan, Exile, Kenobi, etc.)

Nonforceusers competing with forceusers is completely fair, viable and about as logical as magical monks with laserswords existing. 

SWTOR commits most of the mistakes that TCW does (mainly, throwing old content out the window in favour of its own) 

Legacy comics should have focused more on Imperial Knights and side characters in general over Cade and friends. 

CW 03 has far more depth than TCW 08, and is leagues above in realism.

Oh and the more limits we put on debating the less interesting it becomes  Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 1289255181
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 12:03 pm
@Mysteryman06 wrote:Also The Mandalorian S2 Finale was shit

That is a popular opinion
Mysteryman06
Mysteryman06

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 12:05 pm
Mysteryman06
Mysteryman06

 Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 Empty Re: Unpopular Star Wars opinions?

January 13th 2021, 12:11 pm
@HellfireUnit wrote:
@Mysteryman06 wrote:Also The Mandalorian S2 Finale was shit

That is a popular opinion

@HellfireUnit I don't think so, Everyone I see gives the episode a pass only for the Luke Skywalker scene, completely ignoring poor writing (Mando somehow knowing where Bo Katan was) , unresolved arcs (the Darksaber feud), the random disappearance of a certain character that was only required because they needed to set up another series at the end credits ( Boba Fett)
Zenwolf
Zenwolf
Level One
Level One

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January 13th 2021, 12:16 pm
@Nute_Chethray wrote:

Legacy comics should have focused more on Imperial Knights and side characters in general over Cade and friends. 

CW 03 has far more depth than TCW 08, and is leagues above in realism.

Oh and the more limits we put on debating the less interesting it becomes  Unpopular Star Wars opinions? - Page 6 1289255181



1. We probably could have gotten more on the Legacy era if Disney didn't axe everything...but I agree. I wanted to see more of a 'good' Empire, I liked that the old EU slowly turned the GE into a force of good for the galaxy, instead of retreading it as some evil organization.

2. How's that? I mean I'll agree with the realistic scope of it, hell the 1st 3 minutes of the opening shows this, along with the rest of the series. I feel like a galactic war is being waged, whereas 08 TCW....I recall maybe...2 large scale battles?....

Depth though as in story and characters? How do you figure? Anakin was the only one who got any depth to him. The story wasn't too deep.


Last edited by Zenwolf on January 13th 2021, 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tybalt
Tybalt

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January 13th 2021, 12:21 pm
The funniest part of The Mandalorian S2 finale was that the writers forgot to have Luke introduce himself.
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