Re: Force User Tiers

Re: Force User Tiers · December 8th 2019, 11:07 pm

Canon:

Tier 10 (gods) = The Ones, Force Priestesses, Celestials, Mortis Anakin, Bendu.
Tier 9 (top tiers) = GM Luke, prime Mace, Yoda, Sidious, KFV, Talzin, Luke (pre-TFA).
Tier 8 (very high tiers) = Ben Kenobi, Dooku, suit Vader (prime - somewhere between 8 and 9), Darth Maul (TCW), ROTJ Luke, Obi-Wan (ROTS).
Tier 7 (high tiers) = Ventress, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, Eeth Koth, Saesee Tiin, Ahsoka Tano (Rebels - because of lack of feats), Maul (Rebels), Kanan Jarrus (prime - could maybe be an 8), Savage Opress.
Tier 6 (upper mid tiers) = Grand Inquisitor, rest of the Inquisitors, Ahsoka Tano (TCW prime), Lord Momin.
Tier 5 (lower mid tiers) = Ezra Bridger (prime), Ahsoka Tano (TCW seasons 1, 2 & 3).
Tier 3 (low tier) = The Ilum younglings.

Tier 10 >>> tier 9 >>> tier 8 >>> tier 7 >> tier 6 > tier 5 > tier 4 > tier 3.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 9th 2019, 12:10 am

i think vader> anakin in canon. he is said to in his prime by the guys that directed rebels, and lords of the sith supports this as well.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 9th 2019, 1:07 am

BreakofDawn wrote:Canon:

Tier 10 (gods) = The Ones, Force Priestesses, Celestials, Mortis Anakin, Bendu.
Tier 9 (top tiers) = GM Luke, prime Mace, Yoda, Sidious, KFV, Talzin, Luke (pre-TFA).
Tier 8 (very high tiers) = Ben Kenobi, Dooku, suit Vader (prime - somewhere between 8 and 9), Darth Maul (TCW), ROTJ Luke, Obi-Wan (ROTS).
Tier 7 (high tiers) = Ventress, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, Eeth Koth, Saesee Tiin, Ahsoka Tano (Rebels - because of lack of feats), Maul (Rebels), Kanan Jarrus (prime - could maybe be an 8), Savage Opress.
Tier 6 (upper mid tiers) = Grand Inquisitor, rest of the Inquisitors, Ahsoka Tano (TCW prime),
Tier 5 (lower mid tiers) = Ezra Bridger (prime), Ahsoka Tano (TCW seasons 1, 2 & 3).
Tier 4 (low tiers) = Lord Momin.
Tier 3 (very low tier) = The Ilum younglings.

Tier 10 >>> tier 9 >>> tier 8 >>> tier 7 >> tier 6 > tier 5 > tier 4 > tier 3.

Interesting that you have Lord Momin so low. I understand he has a lack of feats, and admits inferiority to Vader, but that's hardly anything to put him below the likes of TCW Ahsoka. He was still a very, very talented and powerful dark side artisan with a deep enough knowledge of the dark side to create a... Portal into the Force? I don't really know how to describe what it is he built within Vader's castle. Not to mention, he handily out-dueled an (admittedly damaged and tired) Vader, and he defeated his Sith master, who appeared to be a fully trained Sith herself. I don't see any reason to put him too far below the likes of Eeth Koth or Rebels Ahsoka.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 9th 2019, 12:33 pm

Underachiever599 wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:Canon:

Tier 10 (gods) = The Ones, Force Priestesses, Celestials, Mortis Anakin, Bendu.
Tier 9 (top tiers) = GM Luke, prime Mace, Yoda, Sidious, KFV, Talzin, Luke (pre-TFA).
Tier 8 (very high tiers) = Ben Kenobi, Dooku, suit Vader (prime - somewhere between 8 and 9), Darth Maul (TCW), ROTJ Luke, Obi-Wan (ROTS).
Tier 7 (high tiers) = Ventress, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, Eeth Koth, Saesee Tiin, Ahsoka Tano (Rebels - because of lack of feats), Maul (Rebels), Kanan Jarrus (prime - could maybe be an 8), Savage Opress.
Tier 6 (upper mid tiers) = Grand Inquisitor, rest of the Inquisitors, Ahsoka Tano (TCW prime),
Tier 5 (lower mid tiers) = Ezra Bridger (prime), Ahsoka Tano (TCW seasons 1, 2 & 3).
Tier 4 (low tiers) = Lord Momin.
Tier 3 (very low tier) = The Ilum younglings.

Tier 10 >>> tier 9 >>> tier 8 >>> tier 7 >> tier 6 > tier 5 > tier 4 > tier 3.

Interesting that you have Lord Momin so low. I understand he has a lack of feats, and admits inferiority to Vader, but that's hardly anything to put him below the likes of TCW Ahsoka. He was still a very, very talented and powerful dark side artisan with a deep enough knowledge of the dark side to create a... Portal into the Force? I don't really know how to describe what it is he built within Vader's castle. Not to mention, he handily out-dueled an (admittedly damaged and tired) Vader, and he defeated his Sith master, who appeared to be a fully trained Sith herself. I don't see any reason to put him too far below the likes of Eeth Koth or Rebels Ahsoka.

Fair points, actually. Edited.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 9th 2019, 1:13 pm

Vader is Canon completely outclasses everyone on tier 8, he should be bumped to tier 9.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 9th 2019, 1:24 pm

yeah.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 9th 2019, 2:50 pm

EmperorCaedus wrote:Vader is Canon completely outclasses everyone on tier 8, he should be bumped to tier 9.

Nope.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 10:34 am

Are you aware that this is canon?

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 10:42 am

EmperorCaedus wrote:Are you aware that this is canon?

Yep. He's stronger than any of them to be sure, but he doesn't completely outclass the top tier 8s (e.g. Dooku).

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 10:44 am

So you agree Vader beats everyone in his tier with certainty?

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 10:48 am

In TK, yes.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 10:59 am

Then he should be bumped up to tier 9 then.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 11:01 am

No, because the tier 9s are the ones who completely outclass the tier 8s. Vader is stronger than any of the tier 8s, but not by enough for him to completely outclass them.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 11:02 am

Who do you consider a tier 8 alongside Vader?

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 11:04 am

Dooku for one. Ben Kenobi might be another.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 11:05 am

Dooku gets completely outclassed by Vader. Vader ~> Anakin >> Dooku

Vader was stated to be holding back from Ben in canon.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 11:13 am

Vader > KFV is from Vader's perspective. Vader also believes Anakin was weak and insignificant. Anakin also doesn't scale above Dooku, only Zonakin and KFV do.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 11:15 am

Vader is stated to be “the strongest he’s ever been” and “in his prime” during Rebels. There is no reason to suggest Vader has gotten weaker from Rebels to RotJ, so he has the same power.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 11:28 am

Saving my breakdowns of these quotes for my SS with Shioz.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 11:34 am

i think its pretty clear and obvious, but ok lol

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 11:48 am

I’ll be waiting.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 2:40 pm

Personally, I have Vader as a Tier 9 in canon. He's just too far beyond any other Tier 8 other than perhaps RotJ Luke (waiting for Marvel's post ESB comic to start next year for more Luke feats). So far, no Tier 8 has had feats even remotely comparable to Vader casually throwing AT-STs, repelling the crushing force of the Mon Cala ocean, halting an AT-AT mid-step and nearly crushing it, or shaking his entire fortress (admittedly, on a dark side nexus). Canon Vader's feats are at the highest end of the showings in Canon, and consistently so. Characters like Obi-Wan, Maul, and Dooku just simply don't compare.

I'd also like to just touch slightly on the SS claim that Dooku shook a castle. I'll hide this behind a spoiler tag, so those involved in the Dooku vs Vader SS can safely ignore it if they so choose.

Spoiler:

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 2:50 pm

vader was a semi light sider in that fight and luke was mega amped by the emtions, holy kriff lol

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 2:56 pm

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:vader was a semi light sider in that fight and luke was mega amped by the emtions, holy kriff lol

You are factually wrong about canon Vader being a semi-light sider in his final duel with Luke. Your claim is directly contradicted by the canon RotJ junior novelization, in which we're expressly told how Vader is drawing on the dark side for additional strength, but is still helpless against Luke.

Yes, Luke was amped by his anger, but that duel isn't the only thing in canon that ranks Luke fairly high. I'll make a full thread on this when I get home.

Re: Force User Tiers · December 10th 2019, 3:18 pm

@Underachiever599 Skimmed through your post, and it's a good counter. All I can say without revealing anything about my plans for my next post is that it's not the only thing putting Dooku close to Vader in canon.

Re: Force User Tiers