Suspect Insight Forums
We've moved to Discord! Join us here: https://discord.gg/b6fuSxa3uD
Suspect Insight Forums
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Go down
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 8th 2019, 11:07 pm
Canon:

Tier 10 (gods) = The Ones, Force Priestesses, Celestials, Mortis Anakin, Bendu.
Tier 9 (top tiers) = GM Luke, prime Mace, Yoda, Sidious, KFV, Talzin, Luke (pre-TFA).
Tier 8 (very high tiers) = Ben Kenobi, Dooku, suit Vader (prime - somewhere between 8 and 9), Darth Maul (TCW), ROTJ Luke, Obi-Wan (ROTS).
Tier 7 (high tiers) = Ventress, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, Eeth Koth, Saesee Tiin, Ahsoka Tano (Rebels - because of lack of feats), Maul (Rebels), Kanan Jarrus (prime - could maybe be an 8), Savage Opress.
Tier 6 (upper mid tiers) = Grand Inquisitor, rest of the Inquisitors, Ahsoka Tano (TCW prime), Lord Momin.
Tier 5 (lower mid tiers) = Ezra Bridger (prime), Ahsoka Tano (TCW seasons 1, 2 & 3). 
Tier 3 (low tier) = The Ilum younglings.

Tier 10 >>> tier 9 >>> tier 8 >>> tier 7 >> tier 6 > tier 5 > tier 4 > tier 3.


Last edited by BreakofDawn on December 9th 2019, 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 9th 2019, 12:10 am
i think vader> anakin in canon. he is said to in his prime by the guys that directed rebels, and lords of the sith supports this as well.
Underachiever599
Underachiever599

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 9th 2019, 1:07 am
@BreakofDawn wrote:Canon:

Tier 10 (gods) = The Ones, Force Priestesses, Celestials, Mortis Anakin, Bendu.
Tier 9 (top tiers) = GM Luke, prime Mace, Yoda, Sidious, KFV, Talzin, Luke (pre-TFA).
Tier 8 (very high tiers) = Ben Kenobi, Dooku, suit Vader (prime - somewhere between 8 and 9), Darth Maul (TCW), ROTJ Luke, Obi-Wan (ROTS).
Tier 7 (high tiers) = Ventress, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, Eeth Koth, Saesee Tiin, Ahsoka Tano (Rebels - because of lack of feats), Maul (Rebels), Kanan Jarrus (prime - could maybe be an 8), Savage Opress.
Tier 6 (upper mid tiers) = Grand Inquisitor, rest of the Inquisitors, Ahsoka Tano (TCW prime), 
Tier 5 (lower mid tiers) = Ezra Bridger (prime), Ahsoka Tano (TCW seasons 1, 2 & 3). 
Tier 4 (low tiers) = Lord Momin.
Tier 3 (very low tier) = The Ilum younglings.

Tier 10 >>> tier 9 >>> tier 8 >>> tier 7 >> tier 6 > tier 5 > tier 4 > tier 3.
Interesting that you have Lord Momin so low. I understand he has a lack of feats, and admits inferiority to Vader, but that's hardly anything to put him below the likes of TCW Ahsoka. He was still a very, very talented and powerful dark side artisan with a deep enough knowledge of the dark side to create a... Portal into the Force? I don't really know how to describe what it is he built within Vader's castle. Not to mention, he handily out-dueled an (admittedly damaged and tired) Vader, and he defeated his Sith master, who appeared to be a fully trained Sith herself. I don't see any reason to put him too far below the likes of Eeth Koth or Rebels Ahsoka.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 9th 2019, 12:33 pm
@Underachiever599 wrote:
@BreakofDawn wrote:Canon:

Tier 10 (gods) = The Ones, Force Priestesses, Celestials, Mortis Anakin, Bendu.
Tier 9 (top tiers) = GM Luke, prime Mace, Yoda, Sidious, KFV, Talzin, Luke (pre-TFA).
Tier 8 (very high tiers) = Ben Kenobi, Dooku, suit Vader (prime - somewhere between 8 and 9), Darth Maul (TCW), ROTJ Luke, Obi-Wan (ROTS).
Tier 7 (high tiers) = Ventress, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, Eeth Koth, Saesee Tiin, Ahsoka Tano (Rebels - because of lack of feats), Maul (Rebels), Kanan Jarrus (prime - could maybe be an 8), Savage Opress.
Tier 6 (upper mid tiers) = Grand Inquisitor, rest of the Inquisitors, Ahsoka Tano (TCW prime), 
Tier 5 (lower mid tiers) = Ezra Bridger (prime), Ahsoka Tano (TCW seasons 1, 2 & 3). 
Tier 4 (low tiers) = Lord Momin.
Tier 3 (very low tier) = The Ilum younglings.

Tier 10 >>> tier 9 >>> tier 8 >>> tier 7 >> tier 6 > tier 5 > tier 4 > tier 3.
Interesting that you have Lord Momin so low. I understand he has a lack of feats, and admits inferiority to Vader, but that's hardly anything to put him below the likes of TCW Ahsoka. He was still a very, very talented and powerful dark side artisan with a deep enough knowledge of the dark side to create a... Portal into the Force? I don't really know how to describe what it is he built within Vader's castle. Not to mention, he handily out-dueled an (admittedly damaged and tired) Vader, and he defeated his Sith master, who appeared to be a fully trained Sith herself. I don't see any reason to put him too far below the likes of Eeth Koth or Rebels Ahsoka.
Fair points, actually. Edited.
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 9th 2019, 1:13 pm
Vader is Canon completely outclasses everyone on tier 8, he should be bumped to tier 9.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 9th 2019, 1:24 pm
yeah.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 9th 2019, 2:50 pm
@EmperorCaedus wrote:Vader is Canon completely outclasses everyone on tier 8, he should be bumped to tier 9.
Nope.
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 10:34 am
Are you aware that this is canon?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 10:42 am
@EmperorCaedus wrote:Are you aware that this is canon?
Yep. He's stronger than any of them to be sure, but he doesn't completely outclass the top tier 8s (e.g. Dooku).
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 10:44 am
So you agree Vader beats everyone in his tier with certainty?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 10:48 am
In TK, yes.
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 10:59 am
Then he should be bumped up to tier 9 then.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 11:01 am
No, because the tier 9s are the ones who completely outclass the tier 8s. Vader is stronger than any of the tier 8s, but not by enough for him to completely outclass them.
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 11:02 am
Who do you consider a tier 8 alongside Vader?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 11:04 am
Dooku for one. Ben Kenobi might be another.
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 11:05 am
Dooku gets completely outclassed by Vader. Vader ~> Anakin >> Dooku

Vader was stated to be holding back from Ben in canon.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 11:13 am
Vader > KFV is from Vader's perspective. Vader also believes Anakin was weak and insignificant. Anakin also doesn't scale above Dooku, only Zonakin and KFV do.
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 11:15 am
Vader is stated to be “the strongest he’s ever been” and “in his prime” during Rebels. There is no reason to suggest Vader has gotten weaker from Rebels to RotJ, so he has the same power.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 11:28 am
Saving my breakdowns of these quotes for my SS with Shioz.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 11:34 am
i think its pretty clear and obvious, but ok lol
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 11:48 am
I’ll be waiting.
Underachiever599
Underachiever599

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 2:40 pm
Personally, I have Vader as a Tier 9 in canon. He's just too far beyond any other Tier 8 other than perhaps RotJ Luke (waiting for Marvel's post ESB comic to start next year for more Luke feats). So far, no Tier 8 has had feats even remotely comparable to Vader casually throwing AT-STs, repelling the crushing force of the Mon Cala ocean, halting an AT-AT mid-step and nearly crushing it, or shaking his entire fortress (admittedly, on a dark side nexus). Canon Vader's feats are at the highest end of the showings in Canon, and consistently so. Characters like Obi-Wan, Maul, and Dooku just simply don't compare. 

I'd also like to just touch slightly on the SS claim that Dooku shook a castle. I'll hide this behind a spoiler tag, so those involved in the Dooku vs Vader SS can safely ignore it if they so choose.
 
Spoiler:
The scene in question, where Dooku supposedly shakes a castle while doing battle with a vampire-like creature, comes from the comic Tales From Vader's Castle. Having read the comic, I can tell you this feat can be safely discounted. The whole story itself, where Obi-Wan and Adi Gallia face off against Dooku on a vampire-infested world, is an in-universe tale being told by a character to their companions while traveling throughout Vader's castle. Not to mention, in the tale itself, the castle isn't shaking purely due to Count Dooku. Obi-Wan attributes it to the age of the fortress, with him mentioning that the citadel just needs a helping hand for it to fall apart completely. 

The whole tale is just that, a tall tale about a vampire infecting a Sith Lord during the Clone Wars. The character telling the story did not witness the events himself, nor did he seemingly gather the information from one of the witnesses of the event. Therefore, Dooku's castle shaking feat is no more canon than Luke throwing around Star Destroyers at the battle of Jakku in The Legends of Luke Skywalker. In-universe myths, legends, and fables are not equivalent to verifiable feats. Without this feat, Dooku has no feats even remotely on the same scale as Vader in terms of TK. All the more reason to put Vader as a 9 and Dooku as an 8.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 2:50 pm
vader was a semi light sider in that fight and luke was mega amped by the emtions, holy kriff lol
Underachiever599
Underachiever599

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 2:56 pm
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:vader was a semi light sider in that fight and luke was mega amped by the emtions, holy kriff lol
You are factually wrong about canon Vader being a semi-light sider in his final duel with Luke. Your claim is directly contradicted by the canon RotJ junior novelization, in which we're expressly told how Vader is drawing on the dark side for additional strength, but is still helpless against Luke.

Yes, Luke was amped by his anger, but that duel isn't the only thing in canon that ranks Luke fairly high. I'll make a full thread on this when I get home.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

December 10th 2019, 3:18 pm
@Underachiever599 Skimmed through your post, and it's a good counter. All I can say without revealing anything about my plans for my next post is that it's not the only thing putting Dooku close to Vader in canon.
Sponsored content

Force User Tiers - Page 4 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

Back to top
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum