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KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:23 pm
@sam i didn't say he was sheev level. I pegged him around Tenebrous level. Which still puts him way above Bane.
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
Level One
Level One

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:57 am
@NotAA3 wrote:Note: Characters are ordered within their respective tiers with the strongest being mentioned first and the weakest last. For example, in tier 10 ("Luke, Sidious (DE), Valkorion, Nyax, Nihilus.") Luke is the strongest and Nihilus is the weakest.

Gonna rank all eras and I'll probably forget a bunch of characters. I'll start at 10 and work my way down to 8 (I don't really care about ranking beyond that). Note that I'll also rank different iterations of a character just to demonstrate a kind of overall hierarchy so the gaps I have between certain characters will become clearer. If I don't specify which version of a character it is that person most likely won't appear on my list again so assume their peak iteration.

Tier 10+: Luke, Sidious (DE), Valkorion, Nyax, Nihilus.

High Tier 9: KF Vader, The Outlander, Unchained Vaylin.

Mid-tier 9: Sidious (ROTS), Yoda (ROTS), Vitiate (SWTOR: Jedi Knight: Act 2), Revan (SWTOR: SOR).

Low tier 9: Chained Vaylin, Arcann (KOTET), Starkiller, Vitiate (SWTOR: Revan), Revan, (SWTOR: Revan), UnuThul, Darish Vol.

High tier 8: Anakin Skywalker (Start of ROTS), Count Dooku, Plagueis, Sidious (TPM pre-boost), Darth Krayt (Legacy: War), Cade Skywalker (Legacy: War), Darth Caedus, Revan (KOTOR), Arcann (KOTFE), Tenebrous.

Mid-tier 8: Exar Kun, Darth Krayt (Legacy), Darth Wyyrlok, Ulic Qel-Droma, Darth Malak, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Darth Maul (SoD), Darth Revan, The Hero of Tython (SWTOR: Jedi Knight: Act 3), The Emperor's Wrath II (SWTOR: Sith Warrior: Act 3), Darth Marr.

Low tier 8: Cade Skywalker (Legacy), Darth Zannah, Darth Bane, Darth Maul (TPM), Darth Vader, Saba Setayne, Asajj Ventress, Savage Opress, A'Sharad Hett, Barsen'thor (SWTOR: Jedi Consular: Act 3), Darth Nyriss, Meetra Surik, Darth Nihl, Darth Talon, Darth Jadus, Darth Malgus, Darth Nox (SWTOR: Sith Inquisitor: Act 3).

Might update this in future if while reading it I think of a character I missed.
lol imagine having The Outlander above Yoda
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level One
Level One

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:19 am
10: Basically untouchable when on point

GM Luke
DE Sids

9:GOATS

KF, IH & MF Anakin
Yoda
Krayt
RotS, RotJ and TPM Sids
Plagueis
RotS Mace

8: F!cking with them is generally a bad idea

RotS Obi-Wan
Dooku
Maul
Kyp 
DE Luke (No Leia amp)
LS RotS Anakin
Vader

7: Special but not special

Ventress
B-Team and co.
Galen & SK
Cade

6: You exist and sometimes can do things 

Corran
Kyle
Mara
Aalya
Aurra
Kam
Caedus
Luminara
Shaak Ti
Bane
Zannah

I'm blanking on more right now. Not too good at lists.
The Ellimist
The Ellimist
Level Five
Level Five

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:59 am
Creating tier lists kind of emphasizes how difficult it is to fit the power scaling chains of SWTOR and the Banite line into the mythos.

Not ordered within tiers unless if there's a line gap -

Tier 10:
FotJ Abeloth

Super Saiyan Luke

Tier 9:

Luke
Sidious

Yoda
Anakin
Valkorion
Plagueis
Mace Windu
Krayt
Vitiate

Revan

Tier 8:

Outlander
Vaylin
Dooku
SF Malak

Arcann
Maul
Obi Wan
Exar Kun

Darth Bane

Tier 7:

Hero of Tython


Last edited by The Ellimist on Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:08 am
Greysentinel365 wrote:10: Basically untouchable when on point

GM Luke
DE Sids

9:GOATS

KF, IH & MF Anakin
Yoda
Krayt
RotS, RotJ and TPM Sids
Plagueis
RotS Mace

8: F!cking with them is generally a bad idea

RotS Obi-Wan
Dooku
Maul
Kyp 
DE Luke (No Leia amp)
LS RotS Anakin
Vader

7: Special but not special

Ventress
B-Team and co.
Galen & SK
Cade

6: You exist and sometimes can do things 

Corran
Kyle
Mara
Aalya
Aurra
Kam
Caedus
Luminara
Shaak Ti
Bane
Zannah

I'm blanking on more right now. Not too good at lists.

That's actually a nice list grey, although I disagree with few things.
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level One
Level One

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:09 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:
Greysentinel365 wrote:10: Basically untouchable when on point

GM Luke
DE Sids

9:GOATS

KF, IH & MF Anakin
Yoda
Krayt
RotS, RotJ and TPM Sids
Plagueis
RotS Mace

8: F!cking with them is generally a bad idea

RotS Obi-Wan
Dooku
Maul
Kyp 
DE Luke (No Leia amp)
LS RotS Anakin
Vader

7: Special but not special

Ventress
B-Team and co.
Galen & SK
Cade

6: You exist and sometimes can do things 

Corran
Kyle
Mara
Aalya
Aurra
Kam
Caedus
Luminara
Shaak Ti
Bane
Zannah

I'm blanking on more right now. Not too good at lists.

That's actually a nice list grey, although I disagree with few things.
Go ahead
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:59 am
This is an all-primes list.

Tier 10:
The Ones
Celestials
Bedlam Spirits

Tier 9:
Tenebrae
Sheev Palpatine
Luke Skywalker
Darth Vader

Tier 8:
Yoda
Vaylin
Revan
Exar Kun
Kyp Durron
The Outlander
Darth Nihilus

Tier 7:
Darth Malak
Count Dooku
Mace Windu
Darth Traya
Meetra Surik
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Darth Plagueis
Darth Maul
Emperor Krayt
Darth Malgus
Darth Tenebrous
Darth Caedus
Darth Nyriss
Barsen'thor
Darth Nox
Empire's Wrath
Hero of Tython
Ood Bnar
Thon
Odan-urr
Ulic Qel-Droma
Vodo-Siosk Baas

Tier 6:
Darth Thanaton
Asajj Ventress
Darth Bane
Darth Zannah
Darth Cognus
Darth Sion
Tott Doneeta
Qui-Gon Jinn
Bastila Shan

Rough estimates. If you're in the same tier, you at least give anyone else in it a decent fight.
TenebrousWay
TenebrousWay

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:32 pm
Tier 10: DE Sidious, Luke, Valkorion


Tier 9: Revan, Yoda, The Outlander, Vaylin, Krayt, KF Vader, Nihilus, Plagueis, Kyp


Tier 8: Dooku, Caedus, Tenebrous, Mace, Obi Wan, Maul, Suit Vader, Arcann, Malgus, Marr, SoR TOR protagonists, Bane, Zannah, Exar Kun, Malak, Cade, Wyyrlok


Tier 7: Meetra, Traya, Scourge, Mara, Jaina, Ventress, Ulic, Seba, Thanaton, Nyriss, Talon, Nihil


I didn't bother to order the tiers or further divide them in tiers inside tiers.
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:17 pm
@Blade_of_Dorin

lol imagine having The Outlander above Yoda

Lol, tell me when you have a reason why he shouldn't be.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:42 pm
@NotAA3 wrote:@Blade_of_Dorin

lol imagine having The Outlander above Yoda

Lol, tell me when you have a reason why he shouldn't be.

If you make a claim first, then it's your job to justify that claim, not your opponent's to prove why it's wrong.
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:20 pm
@Azronger

If you make a claim first, then it's your job to justify that claim, not your opponent's to prove why it's wrong.

Except I have no reason or desire to justify that claim. Your comment would be true if Blade and I were debating but we're not. Why should I bother proving that The Outlander is above Yoda to someone who clearly believes it to be a lol-worthy opinion and has contributed nothing to the discussion other than a mocking comment? If they wanted to challenge my claim and receive a response a simple why would have sufficed.
SithSauce
SithSauce
Level One
Level One

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:47 pm
Greysentinel365 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:
Greysentinel365 wrote:10: Basically untouchable when on point

GM Luke
DE Sids

9:GOATS

KF, IH & MF Anakin
Yoda
Krayt
RotS, RotJ and TPM Sids
Plagueis
RotS Mace

8: F!cking with them is generally a bad idea

RotS Obi-Wan
Dooku
Maul
Kyp 
DE Luke (No Leia amp)
LS RotS Anakin
Vader

7: Special but not special

Ventress
B-Team and co.
Galen & SK
Cade

6: You exist and sometimes can do things 

Corran
Kyle
Mara
Aalya
Aurra
Kam
Caedus
Luminara
Shaak Ti
Bane
Zannah

I'm blanking on more right now. Not too good at lists.

That's actually a nice list grey, although I disagree with few things.
Go ahead
U have Bane and Zannah far too low. Assuming each tier list is in order, why on earth do you have them below Luminara, Shaak Ti, Secura and Sing?
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level One
Level One

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:04 pm
@SithSauce wrote:
Greysentinel365 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:
Greysentinel365 wrote:10: Basically untouchable when on point

GM Luke
DE Sids

9:GOATS

KF, IH & MF Anakin
Yoda
Krayt
RotS, RotJ and TPM Sids
Plagueis
RotS Mace

8: F!cking with them is generally a bad idea

RotS Obi-Wan
Dooku
Maul
Kyp 
DE Luke (No Leia amp)
LS RotS Anakin
Vader

7: Special but not special

Ventress
B-Team and co.
Galen & SK
Cade

6: You exist and sometimes can do things 

Corran
Kyle
Mara
Aalya
Aurra
Kam
Caedus
Luminara
Shaak Ti
Bane
Zannah

I'm blanking on more right now. Not too good at lists.

That's actually a nice list grey, although I disagree with few things.
Go ahead
U have Bane and Zannah far too low. Assuming each tier list is in order, why on earth do you have them below Luminara, Shaak Ti, Secura and Sing?
1. Reverse Banite scaling
2. That's where their feats place them
The Lost
The Lost
Level Five
Level Five

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:24 am
Wait, do people actually take the Aurra Sing scaling seriously in regards to Caedus?

I assumed it was just being meme'd.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:24 am
Greysentinel365 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:
Greysentinel365 wrote:10: Basically untouchable when on point

GM Luke
DE Sids

9:GOATS

KF, IH & MF Anakin
Yoda
Krayt
RotS, RotJ and TPM Sids
Plagueis
RotS Mace

8: F!cking with them is generally a bad idea

RotS Obi-Wan
Dooku
Maul
Kyp 
DE Luke (No Leia amp)
LS RotS Anakin
Vader

7: Special but not special

Ventress
B-Team and co.
Galen & SK
Cade

6: You exist and sometimes can do things 

Corran
Kyle
Mara
Aalya
Aurra
Kam
Caedus
Luminara
Shaak Ti
Bane
Zannah

I'm blanking on more right now. Not too good at lists.

That's actually a nice list grey, although I disagree with few things.
Go ahead

KF Anakin being over Yoda, Plagueis being lower than Krayt and Anakin and TPM Sidious, Caedus' placement... Like I said, it is a good list but I just had some disagreements with it.
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level One
Level One

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:15 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:
Greysentinel365 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:
Greysentinel365 wrote:10: Basically untouchable when on point

GM Luke
DE Sids

9:GOATS

KF, IH & MF Anakin
Yoda
Krayt
RotS, RotJ and TPM Sids
Plagueis
RotS Mace

8: F!cking with them is generally a bad idea

RotS Obi-Wan
Dooku
Maul
Kyp 
DE Luke (No Leia amp)
LS RotS Anakin
Vader

7: Special but not special

Ventress
B-Team and co.
Galen & SK
Cade

6: You exist and sometimes can do things 

Corran
Kyle
Mara
Aalya
Aurra
Kam
Caedus
Luminara
Shaak Ti
Bane
Zannah

I'm blanking on more right now. Not too good at lists.

That's actually a nice list grey, although I disagree with few things.
Go ahead

KF Anakin being over Yoda, Plagueis being lower than Krayt and Anakin and TPM Sidious, Caedus' placement... Like I said, it is a good list but I just had some disagreements with it.
In raw power KF Vader is over Yoda. 

Hego is below Krayt and therefore TPM Sids. Caedus getting slammed by the same Sing Vader curbed is just....... bad no matter how you swing it. The fact that she's no longer well known or that active says it all about whether she advanced or not.
The Lost
The Lost
Level Five
Level Five

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:04 am
Sing's successes with Jacen were owed almost entirely to her exploiting the safety of his daughter.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:19 am
ILS wrote:Sing's successes with Jacen were owed almost entirely to her exploiting the safety of his daughter.
Not to mention that Jacen way before his prime
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:12 am
Greysentinel365 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:
Greysentinel365 wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:
Greysentinel365 wrote:10: Basically untouchable when on point

GM Luke
DE Sids

9:GOATS

KF, IH & MF Anakin
Yoda
Krayt
RotS, RotJ and TPM Sids
Plagueis
RotS Mace

8: F!cking with them is generally a bad idea

RotS Obi-Wan
Dooku
Maul
Kyp 
DE Luke (No Leia amp)
LS RotS Anakin
Vader

7: Special but not special

Ventress
B-Team and co.
Galen & SK
Cade

6: You exist and sometimes can do things 

Corran
Kyle
Mara
Aalya
Aurra
Kam
Caedus
Luminara
Shaak Ti
Bane
Zannah

I'm blanking on more right now. Not too good at lists.

That's actually a nice list grey, although I disagree with few things.
Go ahead

KF Anakin being over Yoda, Plagueis being lower than Krayt and Anakin and TPM Sidious, Caedus' placement... Like I said, it is a good list but I just had some disagreements with it.
In raw power KF Vader is over Yoda. 

Hego is below Krayt and therefore TPM Sids. Caedus getting slammed by the same Sing Vader curbed is just....... bad no matter how you swing it. The fact that she's no longer well known or that active says it all about whether she advanced or not.
Eh, you are right, Anakin's raw power is superior to Son and Daughter combined. Can't argue with that.

How could Hego be below Krayt and TPM Sidious? He is superior TPM Sidious and any other Sith honestly.
Shioz
Shioz

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:32 am
I guess I'll try. This is not the final version of my list. Perhaps there will be mistakes somewhere, and in the future I will supplement it. Characters located in the same tier can defeat each other in a good fight. A difference of just one tier can sometimes lead to a ragdoll or one shot.

Ranking Inside lists:


Top Tiers
High Tiers
Mid Tiers
Low Tiers


Gods:

  • Anakin Skywalker (Full Potential)
  • The Father
  • Abeloth
  • The Son
  • The Daughter


Rebellion/NR/NJO/Legacy:


  • Darth Sidious (DE)
  • Darth Krayt (Legacy: War)
  • Luke Skywalker (FotJ)
  • Sarasu Taalon (Post-Pool)
  • Darish Vol
  • Irek Ismaren
  • Koro Ziil
  • UnuThul
  • Darth Caedus
  • Kyp Durron
  • Darth Sidious (RotJ)
  • Darth Wyyrlok (III)
  • Iwaar Workan
  • Onimi
  • Cronal
  • Jaina Solo
  • Darth Vader
  • Joruus C'baot
  • Gethzerion
  • Saarai
  • Cade Skywalker
  • Saba Sebatyne
  • Kyle Katarn
  • Viun Gaalan
  • Lumiya
  • Darth Nihl
  • Darth Talon
  • Darth Stryfe


Rise of the Empire;


  • Anakin Skywalker (Knightfall Vader)
  • Darth Sidious (RotS)
  • Yoda
  • Mace Windu (Vaapad)
  • Mother Talzin
  • Darth Plagueis
  • Darth Tyranus
  • Obi-Wan Kenobi
  • A'Sharad Hett
  • Darh Tenebrous
  • Darth Maul
  • Darth Venamis
  • Yaddle
  • Asajj Ventress
  • Savage Opress
  • Qui-Gon Jinn
  • Darth Tenebrous's master
  • Ki-Adi-Mundi
  • Kit Fisto
  • Agen Kolar
  • Sasee Tiin
  • Shaak Ti
  • Plo Koon
  • Yarael Poof
  • Aayla Secura
  • Luminara Unduli
  • Darth Cognus
  • Darth Zannah
  • Darth Bane


TOTJ/KOTOR/TOR:

  • Valkorion
  • The Outlander
  • Vaylin
  • Arcann
  • Vitiate
  • Revan
  • Darth Malgus
  • Darth Baras (with the power of Entity)
  • Darth Malak
  • Darth Nox
  • Darth Marr
  • Satele Shan
  • Meetra Surik
  • Darth Traya
  • Exar Kun
  • Ulic Qel-Droma
  • Freedon Nadd
  • Naga Sadow
  • Bastila Shan
  • Darth Bandon
  • Ludo Kressh


So far, I'm not sure what the general list will look like.


Last edited by Shioz on Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:08 pm; edited 3 times in total
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:42 am
@Shioz wrote:I guess I'll try. This is not the final version of my list. Perhaps there will be mistakes somewhere, and in the future I will supplement it. Characters located in the same tier can defeat each other in a good fight. A difference of just one tier can sometimes lead to a ragdoll or one shot.

Ranking Inside lists:


Top Tiers
High Tiers
Mid Tiers
Low Tiers


Gods:

  • Anakin Skywalker (Full Potential)
  • The Father
  • Abeloth
  • The Son
  • The Daughter


Rebellion/NR/NJO/Legacy:


  • Darth Sidious (DE)
  • Darth Krayt (Legacy: War)
  • Luke Skywalker (FotJ)
  • Sarasu Taalon (Post-Pool)
  • Darish Vol
  • Irek Ismaren
  • Koro Ziil
  • UnuThul
  • Darth Caedus
  • Kyp Durron
  • Darth Wyyrlok (III)
  • Cronal
  • Jaina Solo
  • Darth Vader
  • Joruus C'baot
  • Saarai
  • Cade Skywalker
  • Kyle Katarn
  • Lumiya
  • Darth Nihl
  • Darth Talon
  • Darth Stryfe


Rise of the Empire;


  • Anakin Skywalker (Knightfall Vader)
  • Darth Sidious
  • Yoda
  • Mace Windu (Vaapad)
  • Mother Talzin
  • Darth Plagueis
  • Darth Tyranus
  • Obi-Wan Kenobi
  • A'Sharad Hett
  • Darh Tenebrous
  • Darth Maul
  • Darth Venamis
  • Yaddle
  • Asajj Ventress
  • Savage Opress
  • Qui-Gon Jinn
  • Darth Tenebrous's master
  • Ki-Adi-Mundi
  • Kit Fisto
  • Agen Kolar
  • Sasee Tiin
  • Shaak Ti
  • Plo Koon
  • Yarael Poof
  • Aayla Secura
  • Darth Cognus
  • Darth Zannah
  • Darth Bane


TOTJ/KOTOR/TOR:

  • Valkorion
  • The Outlander
  • Vaylin
  • Arcann
  • Revan
  • Darth Malgus
  • Darth Baras (with the power of Entity)
  • Darth Malak
  • Darth Nox
  • Darth Marr
  • Satele Shan
  • Meetra Surik
  • Darth Traya
  • Exar Kun
  • Ulic Qel-Droma
  • Freedon Nadd
  • Naga Sadow
  • Bastila Shan
  • Darth Bandon
  • Ludo Kressh


So far, I'm not sure what the general list will look like.

Appears to be a nice list mate, will check on more detailed later. Color stuff also looks nice.
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
Level One
Level One

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:41 pm
@NotAA3 hey, sorry I was gonna respond yesterday but I was very busy. I’ll try to get to you soon
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:24 pm
@Shioz: What's your rationale for Arcann > prime Revan or Vitiate?
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:17 pm
@Blade_of_Dorin wrote:@NotAA3 hey, sorry I was gonna respond yesterday but I was very busy. I’ll try to get to you soon

That's okay. I'm busy myself so I probably won't get back to you quickly either.
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

Force User Tiers - Page 3 Empty Re: Force User Tiers

on Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:58 am
Tier 11:
Full Potential Anakin
The Father
Abeloth
The Son
The Daughter

Tier 10:
GM Luke 
DE Sidious
Sarasu Taalon (post pool)
Valkorion

Tier 9:
Revan/KOTET Outlander
Darish Vol (Maybe?)
Yoda
KF Vader
Vaylin
Plagueis/Caedus
Kyp Durron
Lord Nyax
Unuthul

Tier 8:
Yarael Poof 
Arcann
Malgus (FE)
Nox
HoT (Non outlander)
Wrath II
Barsen'thor
Marr
Satele Shan
Meetra Surik 
Traya
Nihilus
Dooku
Scourge
Exar Kun
Tenebrous
Windu
Obi Wan

Tier 7:
I'm too lazy to make the rest of this list now.. maybe later.

Note: The characters in each tier are in no particular order.
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