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Ziggy
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on September 3rd 2019, 2:10 pm
Jacen's surprise obviously intended to be something unimportant hence why it is mentioned, but the main emphasis is Luke's lack of effort.

Something being a "Factor" or merely existing doesn't make it paramount. 

So there isn't a contradiction to my statement, as Ellimist and I have said.


Last edited by Ziggy on September 3rd 2019, 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Sjuttiosju
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on September 3rd 2019, 4:01 pm
@Ziggy: Why should the text waste time dwelling on unimportant points that aren't of relevance? One thing being more important than another doesn't make the other of little significance.
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on September 3rd 2019, 6:17 pm
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It's of little significance compared to Luke's lack of exertion, hence why they're compared like that in the sentence.  

A factor? Yes.  The defining one? No.  

I've already explained why it doesn't matter.  Luke breached Jacen's active TK barrier in Revelations.  He wasn't taken by surprise then.  Your rationalisation for this is unsubstantiated by the text and unsupported further examples in the lore.  Within the text, Luke is using his TK to mess with the Starship - Jacen tries to block him - Luke then TK rapes Jacen with power he didn't realise could be mustered.  No event of charging up magica-points happened in between those instances. 

Not to mention that after Luke effortlessly pinned Caedus to the chair aboard the Anakin Solo, while not in the room, still presumably exerting the same amount of effort (ie: none) he could freeze Caedus' meditation chair to the spot... which - no matter how hard he tried - Caedus couldn't budge an inch. 

Caedus grabbed his meditation chair in the Force and discovered that he could not turn it back toward the battle. No matter how hard he exerted himself, it would not budge.

Krova reported that the Hapans had sealed the Confederation's escape route and were now fully engaged.

Caedus gave up on the chair-he couldn't see anything useful through the bubble anyway-and dropped into the seat facing away from the battle. Instead of leaving his legs stretched out in front of him as they had been before, he drew his knees up to his chest and felt no less foolish.

- LotF: Inferno



 That'ss a pretty strong indicator that Jacen is a mouse to Luke... and well within the ragdoll range when using any meaningful degree of his "baseline" power. 


... On the other hand, Jaina successfully broke Caedus' TK choke on the Bounty Hunter, Mitra Gev :

She felt the breath of cold air behind her. Metal rasped. Tahiri had dislodged whatever had jammed the hatch, and when Jaina turned, she saw Tahiri scrambling through the deckhead. There was blood everywhere on the deck; Mirta was on her knees, clutching her throat one-handed.“Your shabla brother,” she gasped. “He’s up there.”

The Moffs lay dead. Jaina felt Jacen then; he was throttling Mirta to let Tahiri escape into the docking tube above the hatch. Jaina put every scrap of strength she had into breaking Jacen’s invisible Force choke hold on Mirta. She saw it like a black chain and visualized the links flying apart just as Carid shot past her and scrambled up the ladder followed by Vevut. Fett skidded to a halt and grabbed Mirta by her shoulder, as if he thought the blood on the deck might be hers.

“I’m okay,” she said.

“If he’s hurt you, I’ll break my own rule and take a long time killing him,” Fett said.

“Don’t worry.” Mirta rubbed her neck. “I got my own Jedi…”


Legacy of the Force VIII - Revelation.

Rank these powers gaps - Page 2 200


It's pretty funny.  

Luke can exert no effort what-so-ever... and yet objects - including Jacen himself - can be frozen in space without the Sith pretender's ability to do anything about it.  Yet Jaina can actually stop her brother's TK influence over other people with a lot of effort.  

But according to darthcaedus77 - on numerous occasions - Jacen can ragdoll her... yet Luke can't ragdoll him. 

Rank these powers gaps - Page 2 Tenor

Anyway, as demonstrated both by examples in the lore and how the text laid it out, the surprise element is basically a nonfactor.  

Force users can still defend themselves and other objects/people after they've been influenced with TK unless they're just not powerful enough to do so... Like Jacen is with Luke.  The only reason Jacen could compete with Luke in the Brawl is that Luke was emotionally hindered, and even after Jacen getting an initial amp, he only lasted three hits before breaking the engagement to poison Luke with the Embrace of Pain venom - after which the fight got better for him.   

The Gap between Luke and Jacen is bigger than the gap between the latter and Jaina.
Sjuttiosju
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on September 3rd 2019, 6:35 pm
Rank these powers gaps - Page 2 1076326320

I'll respond after I finish my Geography HW.
King Joker
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on September 3rd 2019, 6:47 pm
For the love of god can one of you change your avi?
Sjuttiosju
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on September 3rd 2019, 7:10 pm
No.
King Joker
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on September 3rd 2019, 7:12 pm
@King Joker wrote:Ban! Ban! Ban!
DarthAnt66
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on September 3rd 2019, 7:14 pm
@DC77 (Reborn) please change your profile picture per @King Joker's request.

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King Joker
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on September 3rd 2019, 7:18 pm
Rank these powers gaps - Page 2 D9tJed5W4AAufGZ?format=jpg&name=large
Sjuttiosju
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on September 3rd 2019, 7:19 pm
Absolutely not. It's within my rights as a forum poster on this site to have whatever avi I desire. That Ziggy shares said avi is an irrelevancy.

Spoiler:
Just look at my damn sig and username.
King Joker
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on September 3rd 2019, 7:25 pm
aww, you think you have rights :'(
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on September 3rd 2019, 7:37 pm
That is stupid... I’m dumb, so I can’t even tell if Ant’s joking... Rank these powers gaps - Page 2 228124001
Sjuttiosju
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on September 3rd 2019, 7:45 pm
@Ziggy:

It's of little significance compared to Luke's lack of exertion, hence why they're compared like that in the sentence.  

A factor? Yes.  The defining one? No.

Why is it of "little significance"? Less significance? Sure? Little? That requires further substantiation.

I've already explained why it doesn't matter.

You're "reasoning" hinges on another, entirely unrelated event. I'm asking you to prove why this by itself proves anything.

Luke breached Jacen's active TK barrier in Revelations.  He wasn't taken by surprise then.
 
In other news: the sky is blue.

Your rationalisation for this is unsubstantiated by the text and unsupported further examples in the lore.  Within the text, Luke is using his TK to mess with the Starship - Jacen tries to block him - Luke then TK rapes Jacen with power he didn't realise could be mustered.  No event of charging up magica-points happened in between those instances.

Luke starts his attack several seconds before Jacen throws up a defence, ie: he's been charging up longer and thus is prepared to meet resistance. Jacen's barrier is pretty much summoned in an instant. This isn't a particularly difficult point to grasp. We know Luke can't breach Jacen's defence in an instant on a whim, given he went for a cheap feint when he had the perfect opportunity to do so. That's my additional evidence.

Not to mention that after Luke effortlessly pinned Caedus to the chair aboard the Anakin Solo, while not in the room, still presumably exerting the same amount of effort (ie: none) he could freeze Caedus' meditation chair to the spot... which - no matter how hard he tried - Caedus couldn't budge an inch.

That'ss a pretty strong indicator that Jacen is a mouse to Luke... and well within the ragdoll range when using any meaningful degree of his "baseline" power.

... On the other hand, Jaina successfully broke Caedus' TK choke on the Bounty Hunter, Mitra Gev :

It's pretty funny.  

Luke can exert no effort what-so-ever... and yet objects - including Jacen himself - can be frozen in space without the Sith pretender's ability to do anything about it.  Yet Jaina can actually stop her brother's TK influence over other people with a lot of effort.  

But according to darthcaedus77 - on numerous occasions - Jacen can ragdoll her... yet Luke can't ragdoll him.

The chair feat by itself doesn't indicate a one shot gap. And, guess what, a quick skim through Revelation was all it took to unearth the context to the Jaina choke (Debunking your whole comparison), context you disingenuously omitted:

Revelation wrote:He could Force-push their attackers, or grab her to free her, or snatch the cutters, but that would just open the rip in the docking tube, too. He couldn't do it all. He was still exhausted from the effort of the battle link and bringing down Fondor's defenses.

So, Jacen's running on empty here. Moreover he's choking out a lowly non force sensitive, and thus probably employing a fraction of his usual force. To cap it off killing Mirta wasn't the objective, letting Tahiri was, and low and behold, she escaped. Given this I see no reason for Jacen to attempt to continue the choke.

The rest is mostly a summary of previous points I addressed. Give a full rebuttal to my initial post in addition to this if you're going to respond btw, I'd prefer it if you didn't cherry pick what you will and won't debunk.
Sjuttiosju
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on September 3rd 2019, 7:46 pm
@King Joker I most certainly do.

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The Ellimist
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on September 4th 2019, 5:40 am
Re: barriers, to be fair I don't think the massive gap needed to overcome a prepared Force user's barrier applies when the target isn't the actual Force user, unless if it's really close to the Force user (e.g. their lightsaber). E.g. if someone is trying to move an apple on a table and the other Force user is trying to prevent them, the more powerful telekinetic user likely wins; the second Force user doesn't get an extra advantage for being the "defender". So Luke overpowering Caedus's meditation chair after he leaves doesn't mean he's breaking Caedus's barrier, and it's debatable whether he is doing so in the starfighter scene (not sure if Caedus is trying to use a barrier closer to himself or defending his starfighter as a whole). 

Re: the element of surprise, that's indeed a question. Say Luke is at 10% effort when he TK's Caedus but Caedus is at 20% difficulty to TK given that his guard isn't up, then Luke could still pin him at full effort, and vice versa. But it's possible that while you have already been pinned, you can't just bring up a Force barrier as easily as putting one up in the first place.
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on September 4th 2019, 1:04 pm
@The Ellimist Interesting points.
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on September 5th 2019, 5:07 pm
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DC77 (Reborn) wrote:
Why is it of "little significance"? Less significance? Sure? Little? That requires further substantiation.

Luke starts his attack several seconds before Jacen throws up a defence, ie: he's been charging up longer and thus is prepared to meet resistance. Jacen's barrier is pretty much summoned in an instant. This isn't a particularly difficult point to grasp. 

It's of little significance compared to the effort put in (Ie: none) from Luke, as evidenced by the use of the word "while" and how much more elaborately his lack of exertion - in contrast to Jacen's utter helplessness "no matter how hard he tried" - is described.  Luke TK-raping Jacen again while the latter isn't surprised just confirms that it's not a factor worth dwelling on.  

Btw, your rationalisation isn't hard to grasp... Caedus fan, it just happens to be unsubstantiated by any logical facet of Force powers described in the lore.  Rather it's something you just made up to defend Jacen at the moment, with yourself the only person holding the interpretation true.  Somehow... you've conflated "charging up" power with expending power...  even though no sane person should confuse the two.  To the contrary - when a person is using their force reserves, they're usually not charging their force reserves.  Unless an exception is specified and they're doing both at the same time.  In this case, nothing's specified in regard to Luke "charging up" the power needed to spank Jacen again.  Luke messing with Jacen's ship via TK beforehand, isn't evidence of itself of that.  Which shouldn't a particular point difficult to grasp. 

Relenting why Luke didn't TK Jacen when the latter was guarded by 8 YHV droids isn't of consequence either.  Trying to insist that Luke not doing something means he can't do something is a folly exercise.  I can just as easily assert that Luke didn't immediately one-shot all 8 YHV droids when they confronted himself, Saba and Ben.  In fact, I'd point out that they put up significant resistance.  This is in spite of top-tier feats spanning across his adventures.  Such as gesturing to disrupt the internal mechanisms of multiple droids; causing them to explode  Or overpower Unuthul, despite the latter being able to bend back turbo lasers without the Kilik Colony empowering him.  Yet Luke didn't one-shot every droid Jacen sent to kill the man, does that mean he can't?  What's more likely is that - as per the standard for him - he's holding back a vast proportion of his strength.  A premise that has plenty of in-universe statements and events to back up.

Caedusfan wrote:
The chair feat by itself doesn't indicate a one shot gap. And, guess what, a quick skim through Revelation was all it took to unearth the context to the Jaina choke (Debunking your whole comparison), context you disingenuously omitted:

"

He could Force-push their attackers, or grab her to free her, or snatch the cutters, but that would just open the rip in the docking tube, too. He couldn't do it all. He was still exhausted from the effort of the battle link and bringing down Fondor's defenses."

- LOTF Revelation

"

So, Jacen's running on empty here.  Moreover he's choking out a lowly non force sensitive, and thus probably employing a fraction of his usual force. To cap it off killing Mirta wasn't the objective, letting Tahiri was, and low and behold, she escaped. Given this I see no reason for Jacen to attempt to continue the choke.

Rank these powers gaps - Page 2 Giphy

And in supplying further context, you've unearthed several more reasons to place Jacen very far below Luke Skywalker at his full [baseline] power.  

In fact, the feat that left him running on empty - as you pointed out - would legitimately put him below nearly every other person who specialised in Battle Meditation... including Lord Kaan.  Cementing the idea that Caedus being ~ to Aayla Secura, is the correct interpretation of him.  

To recap  - Caedus is "running on empty" after employing a force battle-link that empowered around a hundred of his commanders with rage :

LOTF Revelation wrote:

The adrenaline and pure white rage looping back to him from the individual commanders made his throat tighten. It was almost like a back-pressure effect, that the passion for the battle that he was channeling into them gained power and momentum, and syphoned back into him as a changed and magnified thing that he felt he had to vent from his chest or scream.

He was out of breath. He hoped nobody noticed. It might have looked as if he were panicking.

[...]

Caedus saw what the Fondorians operating the shield facility might see; he had no idea what the actual location looked like, but he didn’t need to waste his strength projecting his consciousness to actually observe. Any imagined scene would do to focus him as the torrent of anger and raw nerves of a hundred or more commanders poured back through him.”



And the effort to bring down the Fondorian defences involved him tricking "the Orbital team" controlling the defence to drop their shields.  So in other words, he's a pussy who's legitimately below every single Sith Lord who ever used power to influence non-force sensitives.  Exar Kun - for example - did freeze at least tens of thousands... possibly hundreds of thousands or more while waging a winning duel against Vodo.  Caedus is now demonstrably below him. 

As for your claim that Caedus' exhaustion - after such a mid-tier feat - debunks the comparison.  I'd disagree.  It stands given that Luke was exerting no effort in pinning Caedus and his chair, and we should assume that he was doing the same when freezing his chair on its own. Yet Caedus couldn't make it budge despite all his efforts.  Jaina - on the other hand - did legitimately free Mitra of his Force Choke. 

To adress the rest of your whining : 

 Moreover he's choking out a lowly non force sensitive, and thus probably employing a fraction of his usual force. To cap it off killing Mirta wasn't the objective, letting Tahiri was, and low and behold, she escaped. Given this I see no reason for Jacen to attempt to continue the choke.

Given that Caedus in that state would have been killed by a single random Mandalorian (read: a lowly non-force sensitive) had the warrior not received orders to keep Jacen alive, I doubt he was employing a fraction of his power.  He's just that weak.  It's also important to note that the attackers were still pursuing him and Tahiri after his choke, so killing or incapacitating Mitra would have been pretty practical.  So there's no reason to assume he released his choke - to the contrary - Jaina freed her as noted by the text.
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on September 5th 2019, 5:15 pm
@Ziggy

The "no effort" being emphasized more than the "taken by surprise" part doesn't mean that Luke could ragdoll a prepared Jacen; it just means that it's still really impressive to do what he did. Example: "while it was true that he did this on a nexus, it was still far beyond what anyone had done" - this quote wouldn't suggest that he can do whatever without a nexus, just that it's still really unique to be able to do so. That might not seem like a perfect analogy given that the original quote deals with the amount of effort it took, but I don't think that changes the point.
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on September 5th 2019, 5:24 pm
Geography HW or Jacen lowball. Which is it to be.
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on September 5th 2019, 5:25 pm
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Geography HW or Jacen lowball. Which is it to be.

Post your geography HW here and hand in your Jacen post to your teacher.
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on September 5th 2019, 5:27 pm
Lmao.
Sjuttiosju
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on September 5th 2019, 5:50 pm
@Ziggy:

It's of little significance compared to the effort put in (Ie: none) from Luke, as evidenced by the use of the word "while" and how much more elaborately his lack of exertion - in contrast to Jacen's utter helplessness "no matter how hard he tried" - is described.  Luke TK-raping Jacen again while the latter isn't surprised just confirms that it's not a factor worth dwelling on.

It being of less significance doesn't make it of "little" significance, which is all the while implies. Nothing remotely suggests that it's not worth mentioning, that's BS and you know it.

Btw, your rationalisation isn't hard to grasp... Caedus fan, it just happens to be unsubstantiated by any logical facet of Force powers described in the lore.  Rather it's something you just made up to defend Jacen at the moment, with yourself the only person holding the interpretation true.  Somehow... you've conflated "charging up" power with expending power...  even though no sane person should confuse the two.  To the contrary - when a person is using their force reserves, they're usually not charging their force reserves.  Unless an exception is specified and they're doing both at the same time.  In this case, nothing's specified in regard to Luke "charging up" the power needed to spank Jacen again.  Luke messing with Jacen's ship via TK beforehand, isn't evidence of itself of that.  Which shouldn't a particular point difficult to grasp.

My rationalisation appears to have been rather difficult to grasp upon rethinking it given you seem to have missed the point. My argument is that Luke beginning his attack before Jacen's defence means he has time to ramp up, he then releases said ramped up attack on Jacen's fighter, knowing he'll meet resistance. Jacen attempt to resist but because of the time Luke's had, is utterly powerless to stop him. I never said anything about Luke exerting force energy means he's charging up. While you could say that the entire argument is based on unknown, Luke charging up fits with several factors defined in the text:

A) With free time to allow a charge up Luke should logically take it, given the objective is capturing Jacen, which Luke wanted to be sure was certain.

B) Jacen's utter astonishment at Luke's power and believing he's finally capped a limit on it.

C) Luke's inability to breach Jacen's guard in the prior novel.

Relenting why Luke didn't TK Jacen when the latter was guarded by 8 YHV droids isn't of consequence either.  Trying to insist that Luke not doing something means he can't do something is a folly exercise.  I can just as easily assert that Luke didn't immediately one-shot all 8 YHV droids when they confronted himself, Saba and Ben.  In fact, I'd point out that they put up significant resistance.  This is in spite of top-tier feats spanning across his adventures.  Such as gesturing to disrupt the internal mechanisms of multiple droids; causing them to explode  Or overpower Unuthul, despite the latter being able to bend back turbo lasers without the Kilik Colony empowering him.  Yet Luke didn't one-shot every droid Jacen sent to kill the man, does that mean he can't?  What's more likely is that - as per the standard for him - he's holding back a vast proportion of his strength.  A premise that has plenty of in-universe statements and events to back up.

Luke not doing something generally doesn't mean he can't, I agree. However in this particular instance, the logical move would be to do so, he has the time to do so and knows how big a threat Jacen is, yet doesn't. There's no reasonable explanation for this beyond inability. Luke holding back doesn't hold up when we consider that in the very next book he goes to extreme lengths to capture Jacen, including wielding a level of power Jacen's never seen him use before, and no dramatic change in mindset between that event and this. Luke seems to grasp the desperation of the situation and to be frank there's no reason for him to restrain himself.

And in supplying further context, you've unearthed several more reasons to place Jacen very far below Luke Skywalker at his full [baseline] power.  

In fact, the feat that left him running on empty - as you pointed out - would legitimately put him below nearly every other person who specialised in Battle Meditation... including Lord Kaan.  Cementing the idea that Caedus being ~ to Aayla Secura, is the correct interpretation of him.  

To recap  - Caedus is "running on empty" after employing a force battle-link that empowered around a hundred of his commanders with rage :

And the effort to bring down the Fondorian defences involved him tricking "the Orbital team" controlling the defence to drop their shields.  So in other words, he's a pussy who's legitimately below every single Sith Lord who ever used power to influence non-force sensitives.  Exar Kun - for example - did freeze at least tens of thousands... possibly hundreds of thousands or more while waging a winning duel against Vodo.  Caedus is now demonstrably below him.

Tell me, did you actually read the book before writing out this, very splendid paragraph on the events that took place (I'll take the goalpost change to attacking this feat as a concession on the choke feat btw)? Jacen isn't exhausted after that initial effort, just mildly out of breath. No, it's the fact that he endures that while locating specific individuals on a planet with billions of inhabitants, that he isn't even on, that exhausts him (Which is above "pussy" tier). This argument is disingenuous at best, at worst entirely fabricated.

As for your claim that Caedus' exhaustion - after such a mid-tier feat - debunks the comparison.  I'd disagree.  It stands given that Luke was exerting no effort in pinning Caedus and his chair, and we should assume that he was doing the same when freezing his chair on its own. Yet Caedus couldn't make it budge despite all his efforts.  Jaina - on the other hand - did legitimately free Mitra of his Force Choke.

Your assumption is unsubstantiated and also, entirely irrelevant, and once again, doesn't demonstrate a one shot gap.

Given that Caedus in that state would have been killed by a single random Mandalorian (read: a lowly non-force sensitive) had the warrior not received orders to keep Jacen alive, I doubt he was employing a fraction of his power.

So, being cheap shotted by a Mando after this event took place means he was going full throttle against a non force sensitive he wasn't even interested in killing? Are you serious?

He's just that weak.  It's also important to note that the attackers were still pursuing him and Tahiri after his choke, so killing or incapacitating Mitra would have been pretty practical.  So there's no reason to assume he released his choke - to the contrary - Jaina freed her as noted by the text.

I never claimed he released it, merely that he likely didn't attempt to stop Jaina from doing anything, given, not only is he exhausted and can't afford to waste energy on such an act but is also choking a lowly non force sensitive he has no interest in killing.
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on September 5th 2019, 5:53 pm
@Praxis Lol, this gave me a good chuckle.
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on September 6th 2019, 3:28 am
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:B) Jacen's utter astonishment at Luke's power and believing he's finally capped a limit on it.

Wasn't he referring to Luke's illusions?

Luke holding back doesn't hold up when we consider that in the very next book he goes to extreme lengths to capture Jacen, including wielding a level of power Jacen's never seen him use before, and no dramatic change in mindset between that event and this.

Wait - if Luke shows a level of power Jacen hadn't seen only after the Vong droids, wouldn't that mean that he isn't using his full power in that fight?
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on September 7th 2019, 1:16 pm
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Frabrication by DarthCaedus77 wrote:
Tell me, did you actually read the book before writing out this, very splendid paragraph on the events that took place (I'll take the goalpost change to attacking this feat as a concession on the choke feat btw)? Jacen isn't exhausted after that initial effort, just mildly out of breath. No, it's the fact that he endures that while locating specific individuals on a planet with billions of inhabitants, that he isn't even on, that exhausts him (Which is above "pussy" tier). This argument is disingenuous at best, at worst entirely fabricated.


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Star Wars LOTF Revelation wrote:
Caedus felt stronger now, but the raw energy of the battle link with his commanders, built up and discharged into the minds of the Fondorian shield technicians, hadn’t yet returned

Exhausted, he had to rely on the natural skill of the commanders who’d rallied to him. Two Fondorian frigates circled the Anakin Solo, pounding the shield generator dome.


If you actually read the book before writing this, then it'd be abundantly clear what did and what didn't exhaust Caedus - the same energy used to empower his commanders released onto a team of Fondorian technicians, influencing their minds.  A very poor feat, and not one a - vaunted - Plagueis tier should be drained from.  This comparison alone puts Jacen in the one-shot category of a Luke using a reasonable fraction of his full power...  and Luke actually one-shotting him on multiple occasions doesn't make this a hard point to comprehend...


Details : 


1 - The battle meditation Jacen employed influenced only 100 of his commanders
2 - He was already breathless from the exertion of this act alone... not sure where the term "midly" is used
3 - Locating the shield technicians isn't implied to be a factor in his exhaustion 
4 - Locating specific people on a planet is a trivial power employed by rando Jedi scouts in both post/pre Russan times
5 - The Sheild technicians themselves are a "team" of staff located in "control room" - likely not a legion of people 


Caedusfan wrote:Luke not doing something generally doesn't mean he can't, I agree.


You should have stopped there  Rank these powers gaps - Page 2 4037459623


CaedusFan wrote:
However in this particular instance, the logical move would be to do so, he has the time to do so and knows how big a threat Jacen is, yet doesn't. There's no reasonable explanation for this beyond inability. Luke holding back doesn't hold up when we consider that in the very next book he goes to extreme lengths to capture Jacen, including wielding a level of power Jacen's never seen him use before, and no dramatic change in mindset between that event and this. Luke seems to grasp the desperation of the situation and to be frank there's no reason for him to restrain himself.


In this particular instance, Caedus was guarded by several YVH droids all of whom were firing on Luke, Saba and his Ben.  Using the logic of Luke not doing something means he can't, means we can just as easily infer that one-shotting several YHV droids - who have 50/50 odds against random Jedi Knights - is also beyond the Jedi Grandmaster's ability.  

All the reasoning used to make excuses for Jacen can be applied here.  The droids were a mortal threat to his son.  The method used to remove some of the droids - planting grenades on them -  posed a risk to the Jedi in question.  Saba was actually injured as a result of this tactic.  And of course, the droids were standing in the way of himself and Caedus - who as you profess is such a great threat.  So why doesn't he just lolnope the robots so he can quickly face Caedus alone or with an uninjured Saba to back him up?  Especially when we've seen him use this ability in previous adventures : 



Spoiler:
Rank these powers gaps - Page 2 4788434-luke%20destroys%20droids%20with%20a%20gesture


You have a choice...

1 - Luke is still holding back his full power in adherence to his morals 

2 - Luke is actually far weaker than previous incarnations of himself

The latter would mean scaling Caedus to Luke is a folly exercise and we might as well look at the dudes mediocre showings to rank him.  The former on the other hand, has an in-universe basis... but also means scaling Caedus to Luke is a folly exercise and we might as well look at the dudes mediocre feats to rank him...  I do this.  Most people here are starting to do this anyway.  

More context: Caedus being a threat to Luke - or the Galaxy for that matter - wouldn't preclude him from holding back as he has done up until his greatest threat, Abeloth.  The fact is, he would still try and capture Caedus without using his full power in heroic fashion.  In the instance where Luke, Ben and Saba board the Anakin Solo their main goal is to be a distraction so Leia can rescue Alana Solo from the ship. Capturing the latter is a secondary objective : 


LOTF Fury wrote:Vexed, Luke tightened his jaw and nodded. He raised his voice. “Master Sebatyne: extract.“This one iz still— “Leaving.” Luke’s tone was unyielding. “Remember what we’re here for.”


And of course, he does attempt to capture Jacen in the next book, in which he breachs the latter's force barrier with Strength Jacen hasn't felt before.  This blatantly means that Luke was holding back in the previous instance, and not that Luke was charging up power.  


o, being cheap shotted by a Mando after this event took place means he was going full throttle against a non force sensitive he wasn't even interested in killing? Are you serious?


I am serious.  Caedus had ample opportunity to shield himself or dispose of his attacker. But instead looked him in the eye and attempted an illusion getting shot as a result.  It wasn't a cheapshot either.  The Mandalorian in question wasn't even allowed to kill Jacen at the behest of Fett.  Of course, he was considering using the force against all of his pursuers, more to the point, he's not avered to killing his enemies.  So Jacen probably was going full throttle against Mitra in that state.  The fact that he was in that state after such a pussy tier feat, means we can put him in the trash tier bin. 

I never claimed he released it, merely that he likely didn't attempt to stop Jaina from doing anything, given, not only is he exhausted and can't afford to waste energy on such an act but is also choking a lowly non force sensitive he has no interest in killing.

Then the comparison stands.  Because Luke wasn't using any effort at all in pinning Caedus or his chair, while the latter couldn't do anything about it. Jaina on the other hand, did successfully break Jacen's choke over Mitra while the latter "may or may not" have been using a decent degree of his strength.  If you conclude Jacen can one shot Jaina, then Luke can one shot Caedus, like he did, twice, in the story itself.
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