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Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
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SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 Empty Re: SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax)

on January 17th 2020, 10:01 pm
Message reputation : 100% (3 votes)
Ok... got a couple days off so let's get this started.

Opening Thoughts

Whilst the feats you've presented for Kun in your opener are certainly of an exceptionally high calibre, I feel it's worth noting that we have a noticeable distinction between them and Caedus's own accomplishments, and that instead of spamming environmental showings we should either look for a direct comparison between the two combatants, or find an avenue in which they both have exceptional performamnces to compare them. Since I believe due to the nature of this debate (That being that it's a cross era versus) we lack anything of substance regarding the former we should instead turn our attention to the latter. As noted prior I don't think anything you've provided fits that bill, nor do I think that say, Caedus's TK performances do either. For example, how do we compare what you've shown for Kun to Jacen ragdolling drop ships as early as Dark Nest:

Dark Nest: The Swarm War wrote:The drop ship completed its attack pattern, then stopped firing as it descended below the effective altitude for its fire-control apparatus. The vessel itself was a fiery wedge of ceram-metal composite at the tip of the smoke plume, no more than forty meters long and perhaps half that at the base.
… Jaina snaked a finger over the edge of the crater and pointed at one of the drop ship's laser cannons, then used the Force to scoop up a pile of sand and hurl it up the barrel. The weapon exploded, vaporizing one wing and ripping a jagged gash in the fuselage.
Fel's eyes widened in shock, and Jaina and Zekk lost sight of him as the drop ship rocked up on its side and flipped. It landed hard in the sand, and a chain of blasts shook the dune as the remaining laser cannons exploded. The vessel rolled back onto its belly and began to belch smoke.
… And that was when a loud groan sounded from the hull. Jaina and Zekk paused, thinking the craft was about to explode. Instead, it rolled away from them, revealing a dark jagged hole where the near wing had once connected to the fuselage.
Realizing someone had to be using the Force, Jaina and Zekk glanced over their shoulders and found Jacen looking in the drop ship's direction. He smiled, then nodded past them toward the vessel.

Or yanking back accelerating B-Wings:

Dark Nest: The Swarm War wrote:The second B-wing gave up trying to hold Kyle and his companions at bay and dropped its tail to bring its torpedo launcher to bear. Luke started to Force-grab the fighter again, but Jacen had already caught it and was holding it in place while cannon bolts pounded its shields from above.

I think the most obvious answer is that we can't. However, an area in which they both share noteworthy accomplishments and accolades would be lightsaber prowess and augmentation, so let's start with that shall we (That is unless you are capable of proposing anything better to work with)?

Allow me to introduce Galen Marek. Due to his time under Vader's sadistic, cruel and violent training he's a force to be reckoned with, being noted to have "all but perfected" lightsaber combat:

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:The Apprentice’s training was harsh and unforgiving: Vader subject the boy to rigorous physical tests bordering on torture. He first controlled the boy through fear, and then taught him to embrace hatred and other base emotions. As the boy grew older, Vader promised him greater power - through the dark side. Under Vader’s relentless tutelage, the Apprentice all but perfected the fine art of lightsaber combat and learned to wield many fearsome dark side powers.

This alone is better than any hype I've seen cited from the TOTJ era regarding saber prowess, and Galen himself is nothing to write home about in comparison to Caedus. At the start of TFU he's being matched by relatively weak opponents. One such opponent would be Rham Kota:

The Force Unleashed wrote:The duel raged all across the control center, which shook and rattled as the facility around it broke apart. The apprentice ignored everything else-Juno's voice, the wildly fluctuating gravity, the never-ending explosions, the rising temperature of the floor beneath him-in order to concentrate solely on this one vital battle. Kota wouldn't beat him, but could he beat Kota? He had to.

Who himself is vastly beneath Shaak Ti:

Insider 140 wrote:After an inconclusive victory against Rahm Kota, and a more final one against the mad Paratus, Starkiller takes on a far more formidable foe in this classic scene: Shaak Ti, one of the most powerful Jedi.

Somebody Galen was able to match upon bettering himself:

The Force Unleashed wrote:The fight progressed around the sarlacc’s center rings, blow and counterblow accompanied by the roaring of the beast. The apprentice cut off teeth and threw the fragments at his adversary’s head. In return she took tighter control of the beast’s distributed intelligence and sent its food-seeking tentacles flailing for him. He repulsed them and fought on.

Here's this same Galen being stalemated in CQC by a Shadow Guard:

The Force Unleashed wrote:Out of the cloud of metal fragments leapt a second of the Emperor's Sith assassins, saber-staff upraised. The apprentice met him with a clash of sparks and lightning. Sith against Sith, they fought backward and forward through the broad, metal-lined space. This assassin was more proficient than the first, wiry and strong with a good reach and penchant for telekinetically throwing items from inside the apprentice's blind spot. He proved to be tough work until the apprentice wrenched the next giant fan off its gimbals and sent it spinning through the air. The black guard seemed so stunned by the sight of it that he didn't jump until it was too late. One spinning blade took his right leg off at the knee. From then, the fight was over.

SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 Shadow10

SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 Shadow11

In both fights he's only able to win by the environment or the force. Getting tagged in the comic and equalled in the novel. These same Shadow Guards are locked beneath the likes of Ventress, and more importantly Mara:

Starships and Vehicles Collection 63 wrote:None would be trained sufficiently to be a threat to Darth Bane's insistence that there only be two Sith, nor would they be a threat to Darth Sidious or his apprentice Darth Vader. The most powerful of these agents were 'only' Sith adepts but would appear to be almost as dark Jedi - the likes of Asajj Ventress, Mara Jade or Inquisitor Valin (in fact a fallen Jedi). The lesser agents were reduced to still-deadly faceless minions. Amongst their ranks were the Shadow Guard.

Who is likewise stated to be below Jacen blade to blade:

Insider 107 wrote:Mara engages Jacen’s StealthX starfighter in an encounter that causes them both to land on the planet. Aware that he would triumph in a duel, she takes refuge in narrow underground tunnels where a lightsaber would be ineffective in close combat.

The gap isn't massive however. As, notably, Mara beats Jacen going off nothing but an environmental edge:

Spoiler:

Legacy Of The Force: Sacrifice wrote:He fumbled for his lightsaber and thumbed it into life again. Mara was already back on her feet, coming at him with the shoto and vibroblade, brick dust and black-red blood snaking down her forehead from a scalp cut. She leapt at him with the shoto held left-handed, fencing-style, seared the angle of his cheekbone, and caught him under the tip of chin with the vibroblade as he jerked back.
She shouldn't have been able to get near him. He had total mastery, and she was just athletic and fast. He pushed back at her in the Force, sending her crashing against a wall with a loud grunt, but she kept coming at him, one-two, one-two with the shoto and the blade, and he was being driven back, his strength ebbing. He needed space to fight.
He drew his dart gun and fired one after the other, but Mara scattered all four needles in a blur of blue light. They fell to the ground. He turned and scrambled through the collapsed brick, using the Force to hurl debris up at her from the floor of the passage while she leapt from block to boulder to chunk of masonry, until she Force-leapt onto his back and brought him down.
They rolled. This wasn't a duel: it was a brawl. She thrust her vibroblade up under his chin and he jerked his head to one side, feeling the tip skate from his jaw to his hairline as it missed his jugular. He couldn't draw the weapons he needed. He was losing blood, losing strength, waning, flailing his lightsaber to fend her off. It was almost useless in such a close-quarters struggle. Mara, manic and panting, flicked the shoto to counter every desperate stabbing thrust.
"Ben... I'll see you dead first... before... you get... Ben."
Jacen was on the knife-edge between dying and killing. They grappled, Force-pushed, Force-crushed: he threw her back again, trying to Force-jolt her spine and paralyze her for a moment, but somehow she deflected it and bricks flew out of the wall as if someone had punched them through from the other side. She almost Force-snatched the lightsaber from his hand, but even with his injuries he hung on to it. He wouldn't die. He couldn't, not now.
"You can't beat me," he gasped. "It's not meant to be."
"Really?" Mara snarled. "I say it is."

However, upon killing her Jacen gets a sacrificial power up:

Essential Reader's Companion wrote:Jacen feels his power in the dark side swell, unlocking new powers, including an unparalleled ability to command and coordinate fighting forces as the former Emperor once did. Fully committed to the Sith path, Jacen assumes the title Darth Caedus.
...
Jacen has reached a threshold in his Sith potential. He has sacrificed a loved one and the bond of trust between himself and Ben. Lumiya senses this shift in power and decides a further sacrifice is needed to cement Jacen’s rule.

Which allows him to curbstomp Kyle Katarn, the NJO battlemaster:

Spoiler:

Legacy Of The Force: Fury wrote:He sensed Katarn's attack, threw up his blade in a block so well practiced that his muscle memory could have performed it while he slept. With his free hand, he gestured at the Bothan Jedi. She was suddenly airborne, hurtling sideways to slam into the Falleen, knocking them both down.

Katarn's blade struck his, rebounded with a snap-hiss. and came around from the other side as the Jedi Master executed a lightning-fast spin. Caedus stepped back from it. not engaging the blade. He watched the blade flash harmlessly past him.

He stepped forward again into a side kick, aimed not at Katarn but at the onrushing Valin Horn. His boot heel caught the Jedi Knight on the point of his chin, knocking Horn backward off his feet. Two seconds had passed since the attack began.



In one sense, it was a beautiful and brilliant thing to see. The five combatants moved as though they'd been choreographing this event for years and had planned, all along, that the two sides would somehow be even.



Ten seconds.

Caedus rolled out of Katarn's kick to his head, catching a scrape along his cheek, and swung at the Master's leg, but Kolir's blade intercepted his before it bit into flesh. His strength batted her weapon away, but she had deflected his blow and spared Katarn an amputation.

They're coordinating. Good for them. Bad for me.

Caedus heard a siren-an oncoming GAG vehicle. No, two-maybe three.

He allowed himself a certain satisfaction at their speed of response. He hadn't expected anything of the sort for another half minute.

Then, from the corner of his eye, he saw the first oncoming vehicle, an aging Sentinel-class armored shuttle. It was yellow, with spots of rust. He could not make out its markings without looking at it, but he knew it was not in GAG or Alliance colors. Entering airspace above the plaza, it began a dangerously steep and fast repulsorlift descent. Behind it came three GAG airspeeders, one of them firing a top-mounted laser at the shuttle.

Ah. So they were not responding with brilliant speed to an alarm. They were chasing the Jedi escape vehicle. Caedus swung at Horn, a blow meant not to connect but to cause the young Jedi to flinch away into the path of the Falleen, which he did. While they were interfering with each other, Caedus gestured at the Bothan Jedi, hurling her toward Katarn.

Katarn hurled his lightsaber off to the side and caught Hu'lya with both hands, preventing her from falling, prepared to pull her out of harm's way if Caedus followed through.

Caedus did not. He kept his senses on Katarn's light-saber, and, when it vectored to fly toward him from the side, he negligently swatted it away with his own blade.

Fifteen seconds.

Caedus gave Katarn and Hu'lya a little smile. "You could save yourselves a lot of pain by telling me now where Luke has set up the new Jedi headquarters. I swear, when you are in my hands, you will answer that question."

The Bothan got her feet back under her and stood at the ready.

Katarn caught his returning lightsaber. "Meaning you will torture us to death. Are you listening to yourself, Jacen? Do you even know who you are anymore?"

"I do. It's you who have no idea who I am."

He felt Force energy growing within Mithric and Horn. He gestured, telekinetically yanking the Bothan forward, positioning her between him and them. He felt their Force exertion as it was suddenly cut off.

Katarn advanced, lightsaber at the ready. Caedus withdrew before him. With part of his awareness, he was keeping track of the four inbound vehicles, plotting their trajectories. . .

One of the GAG vehicles was circling ahead and to starboard of the descending shuttle. Its arc, intended to put it toward the bow of the shuttle so it could fire on the cockpit, would bring it near the combatants, just a few meters above them. The pilot's maneuver was smooth, the vehicle clearly under control. Caedus could see the Jedi barely registering its presence, since it did not figure into the combat.

Caedus reached out a hand as if intending to hurl Katarn away from him. The Master raised his own hand, a deflecting gesture. But Caedus exerted himself against the oncoming GAG speeder, yanking it down and toward all of them.

A moment's inattention or focus elsewhere. That's all it ever took. By the time Katarn felt the speeder coming toward him-spinning, its stern a mere two meters from his back-it was already too late for him to send a command even to Force-augmented nerves and muscles. His face changed with the awareness of danger.

Then the speeder's port quarter hit his back, hurling him forward to slam into Caedus. The speeder, continuing its out-of-control motion, slid through the location of the other Jedi, knocking Hu'lya to the permacrete, causing Horn and Mithric to leap to safety.

Katarn now stood so close to Caedus that every facial feature was visible, every scar and line in his weathered face, every hair on his brow, mustache, and beard.

Caedus felt a rush of satisfaction, enjoyment, as Katarn's expression turned from one of surprise to pain. Katarn looked down to see Caedus's lightsaber buried to its hilt in his chest.

A noise, something halfway between a groan and a death rattle, emerged from Katarn's lips. Smiling, Caedus yanked his lightsaber free and let the stricken Jedi Master fall face-first on the pavement.

Note that during this duel Caedus was stalling for the GAG to arrive so he could take the team alive, and was still recovering from his duel with Luke on top of that. Making this even more impressive. What's especially interesting is that Kyle was specifically selected over Corran:

Legacy Of The Force: Fury wrote:“Masters Horn and Katarn have volunteered. I am also willing to lead it. But I haven’t assigned a mission leader yet…because I think you should lead it.”
...
He thought about it a long moment. “Here’s my decision. Master Katarn will lead this mission.”

Somebody who's proximate to Mara:

I, Jedi wrote:After lunch we would listen to more Jedi lore from the Holocron, then Mara and I would practice with the lightsaber. While I was not her equal with the shimmering blade, we would have been closely enough matched to seriously hurt each other, so Kam just pitted us against remotes.

Meaning Caedus goes from being comparable to Mara levels to completely stomping them. Yet still, Caedus is casually dismissed in 5 moves by an enraged Luke Skywalker:

Legacy Of The Force: Inferno wrote:Jacen followed the kick with a high slash. Luke blocked and spun inside, landing an elbow smash to the temple that dropped Jacen to his knees. He brought his own knee up under Jacen's chin, hearing teeth crack-and relishing it. He parried a weak slash at his thighs, then drew his blade up diagonally where his nephew's chest should have been.

This occurs while Luke is injured, and Caedus is amped off pain the pain of a kidney injury. Following this exchange Caedus's guard gets repeatedly hammered by Luke's strength, even after Luke is infected with vong poison, showing a decisive strength edge on top of the speed/skill advantage. Now, let's look at amped Jaina:

Legacy Of The Force: Invincible wrote:Despite the ringing in her ears and the gauze in her head-despite her hugely aching skull and the big knot of hurt swelling on her brow-Jaina had never been so filled with the Force. She could feel it in every cell of her body, swirling through her like fire, burning more ferociously every moment. She had never felt so strong or so quick or so alert. She could drive her fist through a durasteel wall, or catch a blaster bolt between her fingers. Despite the red curtain of blood cascading from the gash where Vatok's helmet had split her forehead, she was aware of everything.

She's operating at a state of near invincibility, feeling like she can catch blaster bolts between her fingers and smash through durasteel. More importantly though, she scales to enraged Luke, as Caedus was completely convinced he was fighting the real deal, and uses the outcome of their last duel as a proxy for the current one, noting that unless he ups the intensity of his performance he'll die. Despite this, he more or less matches her:

Spoiler:

Legacy Of The Force: Invincible wrote:Caedus did not hesitate to activate his own blade. His pain would only fuel his power, and if he did not attack the sniper, he knew the sniper would attack him. He Force-leapt up through the hole into the smoky, flashing interior of the booth and pivoted around to block the fan of blue light that came slicing toward his neck even before he could sense who he was fighting.
Whoever it was, the enemy was good.
Caedus felt a boot slam into his ribs-an instant before he saw it coming with his Aing-Tii fighting-sight - and the breath left his lungs. He countered with a head-high backslash and brought his own foot up, landing a Force-enhanced snap-kick between the legs of the brown-robed blur attacking him. The blow drew a pained grunt, but failed to even stagger his foe.
A bony elbow slammed up under his chin, rocking him onto his heels. Then, finally, Caedus felt a familiar tingle in the back of his mind, and he saw the image of a violet blade slashing at his vulnerable side. He swept his own lightsaber down across the front of his body in a desperate reverse block that barely caught the attack in time to prevent it from slicing him in two, then whirled into a spinning back kick that landed squarely in his foe's stomach and drove him back: a mere two steps.
It was enough.
Now Caedus could see who he was fighting, and he could not believe it. A gaunt-faced man with eyes as blue and cold as vardium steel, nostrils flaring red with anger and exertion, a thin-lipped snarl filled with confidence and disdain.
Luke Skywalker.
Just a few minutes earlier, Caedus had sensed his uncle's presence far above Nickel One, in the same blastboat as his mother, father, and Saba Sebatyne. And now here Luke was, inside the asteroid. Even Jedi Grand Masters could not be in two places at once-Caedus knew that-but he did not waste time being confused.
All that mattered was that Luke was here, somehow, and that he was the one swordsman in the galaxy whom Caedus did not dare fight one-armed. Even as Luke leapt forward weaving a basket of lightsaber slashes, Caedus sprang back out of the projection booth, launching himself into a high Force flip designed to put as much distance between himself and his attacker as possible.
Luke flew after him, not even bothering to try for the high position, simply coming up under him with a wild slash combination that was anything but subtle or deft or even tricky; just pure relentless ferocity. Caedus had to stretch himself out belly-down in midair to meet the attack, and even calling on the Force to bolster the strength in his good arm, it was all he could do to keep the powerful strikes from knocking his guard aside and leaving him wide open.
They started to drop, trading a trio of lightning-fast blows that left Caedus's hands stinging and his heart racing. The last time he had fought Luke, he had started with a painful kidney wound but two good arms-and barely managed to survive. Now, with a relatively bearable shoulder wound and a single good arm, he had to do more than survive, he had to prevail-because now there would be no mercy at the last minute. This time, his uncle would not care whether he survived as long as Caedus died, because now Luke knew the truth about who had killed his wife.
After the third exchange, Caedus and Luke came down in the seating area, two rows apart. Both landed on their feet, Luke more lightly than Caedus.
Caedus deactivated his lightsaber and flicked his hand downward, arming the dart thrower he had begun wearing beneath his sleeve after their last fight.
But Luke did something even more unexpected, removing one hand from his lightsaber and pushing the palm forward. An instant later, the unseen hammer of a Force blast caught Caedus in the sternum and drove him not over, but through the seats behind him.
He slammed into the next row and dropped to the floor foot-to-foot with the big Mandalorian he had killed earlier-the one in the black armor and red helmet. Caedus's head was spinning and his chest was more than aching-it was throbbing, burning, clenching so tightly he could hardly breathe.
But he still had his lightsaber-and he needed it. He thumbed the activation switch and brought the weapon up just as Luke's blue blade came slicing down toward him. Caedus caught it on his own crimson blade, then straightened his arm, simultaneously parrying and pointing the dart thrower on his wrist into his attacker's face.
"Release!" he commanded.
A faint puff of air tickled Caedus's forearm as the thrower launched its darts, but Luke was already whirling out of the way. The slivers streaked past in a harmless black flash and vanished; then Luke was spinning into the row where Caedus lay, positioning himself above Caedus's head for the coup de grace.
There was no time to leap up or loose a bolt of Force lightning, and the angle was particularly poor for blocking and parrying.

Jaina proves unable to break his guard and they land an equal number of physical strikes. She only gains an edge upon utilising the force, but even then, Caedus has proven he can do the same against her, as is made abundantly clear when he disables her with FL:

Legacy Of The Force: Invincible wrote:Caedus deactivated his lightsaber and let it drop between them. Jaina felt the beskad begin to bite, then her brother's palm sank deep into the pit of her stomach. In the next instant she was riding a bolt of Force lightning across the chamber, her muscles cramping, her teeth grinding, her ears roaring with the fiery sizzle of burning synapses. A full second later, she slammed into a durasteel wall and felt a terrible popping in her ribs, then dropped to the floor, still holding her lightsaber and the beskad.

This would have won him the second round had it not been for Jaina's removal of his arm through abusing a 2 to 1 weapon advantage. So Caedus is equal, better than her if anything really, considering his arm is busted before the fight starts. In the end we're left with:

Caedus (Invincible)=>Amped Jaina ~ Enraged Luke>>>>>>Caedus (Inferno)>>>Jacen (Sacrifice) ~ Mara>>>Shadow Guard ~ Galen Marek (Mid Novel)>Ti>>>Kota ~ Galen Marek (Early Novel).

Can Kun match? You've yet to demonstrate such. Caedus wins.


Last edited by DC77 (Reborn) on January 18th 2020, 1:28 am; edited 2 times in total
Sjuttiosju
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SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 Empty Re: SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax)

on January 17th 2020, 10:07 pm
NotAA3
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on January 17th 2020, 10:11 pm
Once again, solid post. Relatively concise but makes an effective point.
The lord of hunger
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on January 17th 2020, 10:13 pm
solid post really interesting points
Divina
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SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 Empty Re: SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax)

on January 17th 2020, 10:17 pm
ooh i like this post, i am wanting to get into more legends material because right now i am kind of a canon noob lol. anyways good luck on your debate @DC77 (Reborn) SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 228124001
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on January 17th 2020, 10:35 pm
avatar
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on January 17th 2020, 10:43 pm
Very nice post. Making me really want to reread these stories, DC.
The lord of hunger
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on January 17th 2020, 11:31 pm
nps :3
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on January 18th 2020, 12:18 am
@BoD (Away): Cheers bro.
Divina
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on January 18th 2020, 12:29 am
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:@NotAA3 @The lord of hunger @Divina: Thanks a lot.
no prob bob SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 228124001 SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 228124001
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on January 18th 2020, 12:42 am
good site lol
xolthol
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on January 18th 2020, 7:01 am
@DC77 (Reborn) Great post
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on January 18th 2020, 8:56 am
@DC77 (Reborn) Great job.
Ziggy
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on January 18th 2020, 9:07 am
Message reputation : 100% (3 votes)
Hahahaha "Lady" Kulvax
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on January 18th 2020, 11:57 am
@IG (Exists) @Xolthol: Thanks a lot.
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on February 9th 2020, 8:12 am
Message reputation : 100% (3 votes)
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Ok... got a couple days off so let's get this started.

Opening Thoughts





Whilst the feats you've presented for Kun in your opener are certainly of an exceptionally high calibre, I feel it's worth noting that we have a noticeable distinction between them and Caedus's own accomplishments, and that instead of spamming environmental showings we should either look for a direct comparison between the two combatants, or find an avenue in which they both have exceptional performamnces to compare them. Since I believe due to the nature of this debate (That being that it's a cross era versus) we lack anything of substance regarding the former we should instead turn our attention to the latter. As noted prior I don't think anything you've provided fits that bill, nor do I think that say, Caedus's TK performances do either. For example, how do we compare what you've shown for Kun to Jacen ragdolling drop ships as early as Dark Nest:

Dark Nest: The Swarm War wrote:The drop ship completed its attack pattern, then stopped firing as it descended below the effective altitude for its fire-control apparatus. The vessel itself was a fiery wedge of ceram-metal composite at the tip of the smoke plume, no more than forty meters long and perhaps half that at the base.
… Jaina snaked a finger over the edge of the crater and pointed at one of the drop ship's laser cannons, then used the Force to scoop up a pile of sand and hurl it up the barrel. The weapon exploded, vaporizing one wing and ripping a jagged gash in the fuselage.
Fel's eyes widened in shock, and Jaina and Zekk lost sight of him as the drop ship rocked up on its side and flipped. It landed hard in the sand, and a chain of blasts shook the dune as the remaining laser cannons exploded. The vessel rolled back onto its belly and began to belch smoke.
… And that was when a loud groan sounded from the hull. Jaina and Zekk paused, thinking the craft was about to explode. Instead, it rolled away from them, revealing a dark jagged hole where the near wing had once connected to the fuselage.
Realizing someone had to be using the Force, Jaina and Zekk glanced over their shoulders and found Jacen looking in the drop ship's direction. He smiled, then nodded past them toward the vessel.

Or yanking back accelerating B-Wings:

Dark Nest: The Swarm War wrote:The second B-wing gave up trying to hold Kyle and his companions at bay and dropped its tail to bring its torpedo launcher to bear. Luke started to Force-grab the fighter again, but Jacen had already caught it and was holding it in place while cannon bolts pounded its shields from above.

I think the most obvious answer is that we can't. However, an area in which they both share noteworthy accomplishments and accolades would be lightsaber prowess and augmentation, so let's start with that shall we (That is unless you are capable of proposing anything better to work with)?

Allow me to introduce Galen Marek. Due to his time under Vader's sadistic, cruel and violent training he's a force to be reckoned with, being noted to have "all but perfected" lightsaber combat:

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:The Apprentice’s training was harsh and unforgiving: Vader subject the boy to rigorous physical tests bordering on torture. He first controlled the boy through fear, and then taught him to embrace hatred and other base emotions. As the boy grew older, Vader promised him greater power - through the dark side. Under Vader’s relentless tutelage, the Apprentice all but perfected the fine art of lightsaber combat and learned to wield many fearsome dark side powers.

This alone is better than any hype I've seen cited from the TOTJ era regarding saber prowess, and Galen himself is nothing to write home about in comparison to Caedus. At the start of TFU he's being matched by relatively weak opponents. One such opponent would be Rham Kota:

The Force Unleashed wrote:The duel raged all across the control center, which shook and rattled as the facility around it broke apart. The apprentice ignored everything else-Juno's voice, the wildly fluctuating gravity, the never-ending explosions, the rising temperature of the floor beneath him-in order to concentrate solely on this one vital battle. Kota wouldn't beat him, but could he beat Kota? He had to.

Who himself is vastly beneath Shaak Ti:

Insider 140 wrote:After an inconclusive victory against Rahm Kota, and a more final one against the mad Paratus, Starkiller takes on a far more formidable foe in this classic scene: Shaak Ti, one of the most powerful Jedi.

Somebody Galen was able to match upon bettering himself:

The Force Unleashed wrote:The fight progressed around the sarlacc’s center rings, blow and counterblow accompanied by the roaring of the beast. The apprentice cut off teeth and threw the fragments at his adversary’s head. In return she took tighter control of the beast’s distributed intelligence and sent its food-seeking tentacles flailing for him. He repulsed them and fought on.

Here's this same Galen being stalemated in CQC by a Shadow Guard:

The Force Unleashed wrote:Out of the cloud of metal fragments leapt a second of the Emperor's Sith assassins, saber-staff upraised. The apprentice met him with a clash of sparks and lightning. Sith against Sith, they fought backward and forward through the broad, metal-lined space. This assassin was more proficient than the first, wiry and strong with a good reach and penchant for telekinetically throwing items from inside the apprentice's blind spot. He proved to be tough work until the apprentice wrenched the next giant fan off its gimbals and sent it spinning through the air. The black guard seemed so stunned by the sight of it that he didn't jump until it was too late. One spinning blade took his right leg off at the knee. From then, the fight was over.

SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 Shadow10

SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 Shadow11

In both fights he's only able to win by the environment or the force. Getting tagged in the comic and equalled in the novel. These same Shadow Guards are locked beneath the likes of Ventress, and more importantly Mara:

Starships and Vehicles Collection 63 wrote:None would be trained sufficiently to be a threat to Darth Bane's insistence that there only be two Sith, nor would they be a threat to Darth Sidious or his apprentice Darth Vader. The most powerful of these agents were 'only' Sith adepts but would appear to be almost as dark Jedi - the likes of Asajj Ventress, Mara Jade or Inquisitor Valin (in fact a fallen Jedi). The lesser agents were reduced to still-deadly faceless minions. Amongst their ranks were the Shadow Guard.

Who is likewise stated to be below Jacen blade to blade:

Insider 107 wrote:Mara engages Jacen’s StealthX starfighter in an encounter that causes them both to land on the planet. Aware that he would triumph in a duel, she takes refuge in narrow underground tunnels where a lightsaber would be ineffective in close combat.

The gap isn't massive however. As, notably, Mara beats Jacen going off nothing but an environmental edge:

Spoiler:

Legacy Of The Force: Sacrifice wrote:He fumbled for his lightsaber and thumbed it into life again. Mara was already back on her feet, coming at him with the shoto and vibroblade, brick dust and black-red blood snaking down her forehead from a scalp cut. She leapt at him with the shoto held left-handed, fencing-style, seared the angle of his cheekbone, and caught him under the tip of chin with the vibroblade as he jerked back.
She shouldn't have been able to get near him. He had total mastery, and she was just athletic and fast. He pushed back at her in the Force, sending her crashing against a wall with a loud grunt, but she kept coming at him, one-two, one-two with the shoto and the blade, and he was being driven back, his strength ebbing. He needed space to fight.
He drew his dart gun and fired one after the other, but Mara scattered all four needles in a blur of blue light. They fell to the ground. He turned and scrambled through the collapsed brick, using the Force to hurl debris up at her from the floor of the passage while she leapt from block to boulder to chunk of masonry, until she Force-leapt onto his back and brought him down.
They rolled. This wasn't a duel: it was a brawl. She thrust her vibroblade up under his chin and he jerked his head to one side, feeling the tip skate from his jaw to his hairline as it missed his jugular. He couldn't draw the weapons he needed. He was losing blood, losing strength, waning, flailing his lightsaber to fend her off. It was almost useless in such a close-quarters struggle. Mara, manic and panting, flicked the shoto to counter every desperate stabbing thrust.
"Ben... I'll see you dead first... before... you get... Ben."
Jacen was on the knife-edge between dying and killing. They grappled, Force-pushed, Force-crushed: he threw her back again, trying to Force-jolt her spine and paralyze her for a moment, but somehow she deflected it and bricks flew out of the wall as if someone had punched them through from the other side. She almost Force-snatched the lightsaber from his hand, but even with his injuries he hung on to it. He wouldn't die. He couldn't, not now.
"You can't beat me," he gasped. "It's not meant to be."
"Really?" Mara snarled. "I say it is."

However, upon killing her Jacen gets a sacrificial power up:

Essential Reader's Companion wrote:Jacen feels his power in the dark side swell, unlocking new powers, including an unparalleled ability to command and coordinate fighting forces as the former Emperor once did. Fully committed to the Sith path, Jacen assumes the title Darth Caedus.
...
Jacen has reached a threshold in his Sith potential. He has sacrificed a loved one and the bond of trust between himself and Ben. Lumiya senses this shift in power and decides a further sacrifice is needed to cement Jacen’s rule.

Which allows him to curbstomp Kyle Katarn, the NJO battlemaster:

Spoiler:

Legacy Of The Force: Fury wrote:He sensed Katarn's attack, threw up his blade in a block so well practiced that his muscle memory could have performed it while he slept. With his free hand, he gestured at the Bothan Jedi. She was suddenly airborne, hurtling sideways to slam into the Falleen, knocking them both down.

Katarn's blade struck his, rebounded with a snap-hiss. and came around from the other side as the Jedi Master executed a lightning-fast spin. Caedus stepped back from it. not engaging the blade. He watched the blade flash harmlessly past him.

He stepped forward again into a side kick, aimed not at Katarn but at the onrushing Valin Horn. His boot heel caught the Jedi Knight on the point of his chin, knocking Horn backward off his feet. Two seconds had passed since the attack began.



In one sense, it was a beautiful and brilliant thing to see. The five combatants moved as though they'd been choreographing this event for years and had planned, all along, that the two sides would somehow be even.



Ten seconds.

Caedus rolled out of Katarn's kick to his head, catching a scrape along his cheek, and swung at the Master's leg, but Kolir's blade intercepted his before it bit into flesh. His strength batted her weapon away, but she had deflected his blow and spared Katarn an amputation.

They're coordinating. Good for them. Bad for me.

Caedus heard a siren-an oncoming GAG vehicle. No, two-maybe three.

He allowed himself a certain satisfaction at their speed of response. He hadn't expected anything of the sort for another half minute.

Then, from the corner of his eye, he saw the first oncoming vehicle, an aging Sentinel-class armored shuttle. It was yellow, with spots of rust. He could not make out its markings without looking at it, but he knew it was not in GAG or Alliance colors. Entering airspace above the plaza, it began a dangerously steep and fast repulsorlift descent. Behind it came three GAG airspeeders, one of them firing a top-mounted laser at the shuttle.

Ah. So they were not responding with brilliant speed to an alarm. They were chasing the Jedi escape vehicle. Caedus swung at Horn, a blow meant not to connect but to cause the young Jedi to flinch away into the path of the Falleen, which he did. While they were interfering with each other, Caedus gestured at the Bothan Jedi, hurling her toward Katarn.

Katarn hurled his lightsaber off to the side and caught Hu'lya with both hands, preventing her from falling, prepared to pull her out of harm's way if Caedus followed through.

Caedus did not. He kept his senses on Katarn's light-saber, and, when it vectored to fly toward him from the side, he negligently swatted it away with his own blade.

Fifteen seconds.

Caedus gave Katarn and Hu'lya a little smile. "You could save yourselves a lot of pain by telling me now where Luke has set up the new Jedi headquarters. I swear, when you are in my hands, you will answer that question."

The Bothan got her feet back under her and stood at the ready.

Katarn caught his returning lightsaber. "Meaning you will torture us to death. Are you listening to yourself, Jacen? Do you even know who you are anymore?"

"I do. It's you who have no idea who I am."

He felt Force energy growing within Mithric and Horn. He gestured, telekinetically yanking the Bothan forward, positioning her between him and them. He felt their Force exertion as it was suddenly cut off.

Katarn advanced, lightsaber at the ready. Caedus withdrew before him. With part of his awareness, he was keeping track of the four inbound vehicles, plotting their trajectories. . .

One of the GAG vehicles was circling ahead and to starboard of the descending shuttle. Its arc, intended to put it toward the bow of the shuttle so it could fire on the cockpit, would bring it near the combatants, just a few meters above them. The pilot's maneuver was smooth, the vehicle clearly under control. Caedus could see the Jedi barely registering its presence, since it did not figure into the combat.

Caedus reached out a hand as if intending to hurl Katarn away from him. The Master raised his own hand, a deflecting gesture. But Caedus exerted himself against the oncoming GAG speeder, yanking it down and toward all of them.

A moment's inattention or focus elsewhere. That's all it ever took. By the time Katarn felt the speeder coming toward him-spinning, its stern a mere two meters from his back-it was already too late for him to send a command even to Force-augmented nerves and muscles. His face changed with the awareness of danger.

Then the speeder's port quarter hit his back, hurling him forward to slam into Caedus. The speeder, continuing its out-of-control motion, slid through the location of the other Jedi, knocking Hu'lya to the permacrete, causing Horn and Mithric to leap to safety.

Katarn now stood so close to Caedus that every facial feature was visible, every scar and line in his weathered face, every hair on his brow, mustache, and beard.

Caedus felt a rush of satisfaction, enjoyment, as Katarn's expression turned from one of surprise to pain. Katarn looked down to see Caedus's lightsaber buried to its hilt in his chest.

A noise, something halfway between a groan and a death rattle, emerged from Katarn's lips. Smiling, Caedus yanked his lightsaber free and let the stricken Jedi Master fall face-first on the pavement.

Note that during this duel Caedus was stalling for the GAG to arrive so he could take the team alive, and was still recovering from his duel with Luke on top of that. Making this even more impressive. What's especially interesting is that Kyle was specifically selected over Corran:

Legacy Of The Force: Fury wrote:“Masters Horn and Katarn have volunteered. I am also willing to lead it. But I haven’t assigned a mission leader yet…because I think you should lead it.”
...
He thought about it a long moment. “Here’s my decision. Master Katarn will lead this mission.”

Somebody who's proximate to Mara:

I, Jedi wrote:After lunch we would listen to more Jedi lore from the Holocron, then Mara and I would practice with the lightsaber. While I was not her equal with the shimmering blade, we would have been closely enough matched to seriously hurt each other, so Kam just pitted us against remotes.

Meaning Caedus goes from being comparable to Mara levels to completely stomping them. Yet still, Caedus is casually dismissed in 5 moves by an enraged Luke Skywalker:

Legacy Of The Force: Inferno wrote:Jacen followed the kick with a high slash. Luke blocked and spun inside, landing an elbow smash to the temple that dropped Jacen to his knees. He brought his own knee up under Jacen's chin, hearing teeth crack-and relishing it. He parried a weak slash at his thighs, then drew his blade up diagonally where his nephew's chest should have been.

This occurs while Luke is injured, and Caedus is amped off pain the pain of a kidney injury. Following this exchange Caedus's guard gets repeatedly hammered by Luke's strength, even after Luke is infected with vong poison, showing a decisive strength edge on top of the speed/skill advantage. Now, let's look at amped Jaina:

Legacy Of The Force: Invincible wrote:Despite the ringing in her ears and the gauze in her head-despite her hugely aching skull and the big knot of hurt swelling on her brow-Jaina had never been so filled with the Force. She could feel it in every cell of her body, swirling through her like fire, burning more ferociously every moment. She had never felt so strong or so quick or so alert. She could drive her fist through a durasteel wall, or catch a blaster bolt between her fingers. Despite the red curtain of blood cascading from the gash where Vatok's helmet had split her forehead, she was aware of everything.

She's operating at a state of near invincibility, feeling like she can catch blaster bolts between her fingers and smash through durasteel. More importantly though, she scales to enraged Luke, as Caedus was completely convinced he was fighting the real deal, and uses the outcome of their last duel as a proxy for the current one, noting that unless he ups the intensity of his performance he'll die. Despite this, he more or less matches her:

Spoiler:

Legacy Of The Force: Invincible wrote:Caedus did not hesitate to activate his own blade. His pain would only fuel his power, and if he did not attack the sniper, he knew the sniper would attack him. He Force-leapt up through the hole into the smoky, flashing interior of the booth and pivoted around to block the fan of blue light that came slicing toward his neck even before he could sense who he was fighting.
Whoever it was, the enemy was good.
Caedus felt a boot slam into his ribs-an instant before he saw it coming with his Aing-Tii fighting-sight - and the breath left his lungs. He countered with a head-high backslash and brought his own foot up, landing a Force-enhanced snap-kick between the legs of the brown-robed blur attacking him. The blow drew a pained grunt, but failed to even stagger his foe.
A bony elbow slammed up under his chin, rocking him onto his heels. Then, finally, Caedus felt a familiar tingle in the back of his mind, and he saw the image of a violet blade slashing at his vulnerable side. He swept his own lightsaber down across the front of his body in a desperate reverse block that barely caught the attack in time to prevent it from slicing him in two, then whirled into a spinning back kick that landed squarely in his foe's stomach and drove him back: a mere two steps.
It was enough.
Now Caedus could see who he was fighting, and he could not believe it. A gaunt-faced man with eyes as blue and cold as vardium steel, nostrils flaring red with anger and exertion, a thin-lipped snarl filled with confidence and disdain.
Luke Skywalker.
Just a few minutes earlier, Caedus had sensed his uncle's presence far above Nickel One, in the same blastboat as his mother, father, and Saba Sebatyne. And now here Luke was, inside the asteroid. Even Jedi Grand Masters could not be in two places at once-Caedus knew that-but he did not waste time being confused.
All that mattered was that Luke was here, somehow, and that he was the one swordsman in the galaxy whom Caedus did not dare fight one-armed. Even as Luke leapt forward weaving a basket of lightsaber slashes, Caedus sprang back out of the projection booth, launching himself into a high Force flip designed to put as much distance between himself and his attacker as possible.
Luke flew after him, not even bothering to try for the high position, simply coming up under him with a wild slash combination that was anything but subtle or deft or even tricky; just pure relentless ferocity. Caedus had to stretch himself out belly-down in midair to meet the attack, and even calling on the Force to bolster the strength in his good arm, it was all he could do to keep the powerful strikes from knocking his guard aside and leaving him wide open.
They started to drop, trading a trio of lightning-fast blows that left Caedus's hands stinging and his heart racing. The last time he had fought Luke, he had started with a painful kidney wound but two good arms-and barely managed to survive. Now, with a relatively bearable shoulder wound and a single good arm, he had to do more than survive, he had to prevail-because now there would be no mercy at the last minute. This time, his uncle would not care whether he survived as long as Caedus died, because now Luke knew the truth about who had killed his wife.
After the third exchange, Caedus and Luke came down in the seating area, two rows apart. Both landed on their feet, Luke more lightly than Caedus.
Caedus deactivated his lightsaber and flicked his hand downward, arming the dart thrower he had begun wearing beneath his sleeve after their last fight.
But Luke did something even more unexpected, removing one hand from his lightsaber and pushing the palm forward. An instant later, the unseen hammer of a Force blast caught Caedus in the sternum and drove him not over, but through the seats behind him.
He slammed into the next row and dropped to the floor foot-to-foot with the big Mandalorian he had killed earlier-the one in the black armor and red helmet. Caedus's head was spinning and his chest was more than aching-it was throbbing, burning, clenching so tightly he could hardly breathe.
But he still had his lightsaber-and he needed it. He thumbed the activation switch and brought the weapon up just as Luke's blue blade came slicing down toward him. Caedus caught it on his own crimson blade, then straightened his arm, simultaneously parrying and pointing the dart thrower on his wrist into his attacker's face.
"Release!" he commanded.
A faint puff of air tickled Caedus's forearm as the thrower launched its darts, but Luke was already whirling out of the way. The slivers streaked past in a harmless black flash and vanished; then Luke was spinning into the row where Caedus lay, positioning himself above Caedus's head for the coup de grace.
There was no time to leap up or loose a bolt of Force lightning, and the angle was particularly poor for blocking and parrying.

Jaina proves unable to break his guard and they land an equal number of physical strikes. She only gains an edge upon utilising the force, but even then, Caedus has proven he can do the same against her, as is made abundantly clear when he disables her with FL:

Legacy Of The Force: Invincible wrote:Caedus deactivated his lightsaber and let it drop between them. Jaina felt the beskad begin to bite, then her brother's palm sank deep into the pit of her stomach. In the next instant she was riding a bolt of Force lightning across the chamber, her muscles cramping, her teeth grinding, her ears roaring with the fiery sizzle of burning synapses. A full second later, she slammed into a durasteel wall and felt a terrible popping in her ribs, then dropped to the floor, still holding her lightsaber and the beskad.

This would have won him the second round had it not been for Jaina's removal of his arm through abusing a 2 to 1 weapon advantage. So Caedus is equal, better than her if anything really, considering his arm is busted before the fight starts. In the end we're left with:

Caedus (Invincible)=>Amped Jaina ~ Enraged Luke>>>>>>Caedus (Inferno)>>>Jacen (Sacrifice) ~ Mara>>>Shadow Guard ~ Galen Marek (Mid Novel)>Ti>>>Kota ~ Galen Marek (Early Novel).

Can Kun match? You've yet to demonstrate such. Caedus wins.

So you're completely abandoned a Force debate? Wise. Thinking Caedus' scaling off of his own era's greater lightsaber exposure would save you? Foolish.

Well, I'll take your basis of Marek and raise you Warb Null, who has the combined combative memories of King Adas and Freedon Nadd:

Hammer wrote:Stronger… perhaps, but not smarter. Telloti knew the weapon in his hands. Somehow, he knew it. He had fashioned it, millennia ago. Or rather, the man in his vision, Shas Dovos, the man who became Warb Null had, inspired by the dark teachings of Freedon Nadd and dread King Adas before him. He knew these things. He had their memories, their wisdom, the cunning of the Sith.

King Adas being the warrior who spent three centuries as the greatest swordsman in the Sith Empire:

Freedon Nadd being the one who defeated and killed Master Metta Tremayne; lightsaber instructor and expert in all its forms:

SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 4714151-090%20005%20battles%20%26%20events%20-%204400bby%20nad3

Prior to learning everything Naga Sadow knew, including lightsaber techniques:

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The Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:Sadow showed him the dark side of the Force and taught him skills the other Jedi Knights had not seen in centuries. With these new powers and weapons, Nadd left Yavin 4 and traveled to the primi-tive planet of Onderon.

Noting that Naga Sadow was considered the master of the Marauder caste of Sith Warriors in the reconstituted Sith Empire for a millennium:

Star Wars the Old Republic wrote:The other one was mastered by Naga Sadow, who could intuit where his foe was weakest and then strike precisely with devastating effect.

All of which was prior to a century of Nadd killing more Jedi than anyone in history had, including Tulak Hord:

SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 4714187-nadd1

The same Tulak Hord who was one of the greatest Jedi killers and lightsaber duelists ever:

Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:"This was the tomb of Tulak Hord, known as the greatest lightsaber duelist of the Sith Lords. His skill was considered remarkable even in his time, when many true lightsaber masters lived. If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters."

Tomb of Tulak Hord Codex Entry wrote:His command of the dark side and mastery of lightsaber techniques won Hord many battles, and each victory earned him enemies abroad and within the Sith ranks. Of the many who challenged his might, none were successful.

That was the level of Warb Null's combative knowledge, when Ulic completely out-duelled him:

Straight from the Horse's Mouth: A Guide to the Tales of the Jedi Universe, Part 3—Star Wars Insider 28 wrote:Warb Null-The leader of the dissident Naddist, Null combined martial prowess with his mastery of the dark-side of the Force. He was eventually killed by UIic Qel-Droma.

Ulic continues perfecting his sword technique in the years after:

Power of the Jedi Sourcebook wrote:While his brother [Ulic] perfected his combat skills

Until he faces Exar Kun where they're a perfect equal in lightsaber combat:

Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:Exar Kun and Ulic fought, but they were too evenly matched for either to gain the upper hand. Their battle might have gone on for hours

Exar Kun then went on, completely reinventing his entire lightsaber technique to become virtually unstoppable in a duel by learning the combat techniques of the mythos' most powerful Sith holocron:

The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology wrote:The most powerful Sith Holocron contained Sith teachings and histories that covered some hundred thousand years.

Jedi VS. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force wrote:
The construction and use of the first double-bladed lightsaber is sometimes credited to Jedi-turned-Sith Exar Kun, but according to the Tedryn Holocron, Exar Kun assembled his weapon by following instructions from a Sith Holocron, possibly prepared by the Jedi Exiles themselves.

The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology wrote:Some unique objects are invariably associated with their remarkable owners. The unusual double-bladed lightsaber of the fallen Jedi Exar Kun is one such artifact. This weapon as distinctive and dangerous as its builder, the Dark Lord of the Sith, who initiated the great Sith War and nearly toppled the Old Republic.

[...]

As the battle against the Jedi escalated, Kun altered his normal lightsaber into a more deadly and dangerous weapon. Kun added a second emitter matrix on the opposite end of the handgrip, allowing him to release two blue-white blades simultaneously. The dark Jedi wielded the saber much as he would a quarterstaff, using one blade to block incoming attacks, then quickly spinning the handgrip to use the second blade to strike a killing blow against his opponent.

Customized controls allowed him to adjust each blade's length from half a meter to one and a half meters. Panels controlled each blade's intensity: at its highest setting, a blade was like any other lightsaber, with the ability to cut through dense materials such as armor plating and durasteel with virtually no resistance. At the lowest power setting, a blade became a simple shaft of light, delivering no damage and providing no resistance against incoming lightsaber attacks. By abruptly shortening a blade or dropping it to the lowest power setting, Kun tricked his opponents into overextending themselves during attacks, giving him an opportunity for a dealy counterstrike. By coupling these tactics with his Force abilities to predict the actions of his opponents, Kun became virtually unstoppable in combat.

Speaking of Asajj Ventress, her most deadly lightsaber technique was in fact an Exar Kun technique:

SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 Screen39

Which by itself implies Kun's level in comparison to Ventress given that one of his techniques is literally better than all of the rest of her's.

Which brings me to your argument. Mara is indeed impressive, as impressive as Asajj Ventress? Not even close. Ventress routinely contested Anakin Skywalker, Mando Maul and Obi-Wan Kenobi whereas Mara was only on par with Kyle Katarn, as you've shown.

Now I'll allow everyone to draw their own conclusions here from the aforementioned, but you are not winning this debate by appealing to lightsaber skill.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

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on February 9th 2020, 10:24 am
Good post, though I think you should've done more than react defensively. Make new arguments, connections etc.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level Three
Level Three

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on February 9th 2020, 10:43 am
I mean, neither me nor DC are even going full-out at this point. I attacked him with Kun's Force prowess scaling and he attacked me with Caedus' lightsaber prowess scaling. This is feeling each other out for which way to go about this. Not an all-out post. I guess the OP's rules were premature given the nature of this debate. The biggest Caedus rep vs the biggest Kun rep isn't going to be a typical debate. Which is probably best for all parties involved.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level Three
Level Three

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on February 10th 2020, 9:37 am
@Decaf Opinion on my saber argument? Interested in your input.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

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on March 1st 2020, 7:42 pm
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

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on March 1st 2020, 7:45 pm
Something will drop in the next few days.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level Three
Level Three

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on March 1st 2020, 8:08 pm
I'm spending most of my time working on my Outlander Respect Thread which I've realised is going to be fvcking huge. So take your time.
Vader's Legacy
Vader's Legacy
Level Three
Level Three

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on March 1st 2020, 8:17 pm
I mean I really wanna see some real Kun arguments, enough of the prodding there kids, you only have 3 posts, time to unleash the power
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Level Three
Level Three

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on March 1st 2020, 9:13 pm
I think the two of us kinda dropped the whole limits shtick for freeform.
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
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SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 Empty Re: SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax)

on March 21st 2020, 1:57 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
Took a little longer than expected due to personal issues, so apologies for that.

A Kunt Or A Solo: Who To Choose


So you're completely abandoned a Force debate? Wise.

Unless you can establish a meaningful method of comparison between their vastly differing accomplishments yes, I will be abandoning a force debate and focusing on sabers instead.

Well, I'll take your basis of Marek and raise you Warb Null, who has the combined combative memories of King Adas and Freedon Nadd:

Which doesn't mean he's their peer, or even close really. It's not the knowledge afforded to you that matters, it's how efficiently you apply that knowledge. I'm speaking from experience as a fencer here. Having 2 years worth of knowledge that my opponents did not never stopped them from thrashing me, due to the fact that my application of what I knew was poor by contrast. But regardless, let's address what you posted for Adas and Nadd:

King Adas being the warrior who spent three centuries as the greatest swordsman in the Sith Empire:

You didn't provide a source for this, nor did you make note of anybody impressive that this puts him above, even if we're to presume you're correct.

Freedon Nadd being the one who defeated and killed Master Metta Tremayne; lightsaber instructor and expert in all its forms:

Being an expert in all forms doesn't compare to "all but perfecting" saber combat in its entirety.

Prior to learning everything Naga Sadow knew, including lightsaber techniques:

Subject to the same rebuttal contained at the start of the post.

All of which was prior to a century of Nadd killing more Jedi than anyone in history had, including Tulak Hord:

Which means squat. Nadd doesn't have to even be close to Hord to have killed more Jedi, he can have had greater and more numerous oppurtunities to do so, fought weaker adversaries ect ect.

That was the level of Warb Null's combative knowledge, when Ulic completely out-duelled him:

Not without major difficulty.

Speaking of Asajj Ventress, her most deadly lightsaber technique was in fact an Exar Kun technique:

This is referencing a gameplay mechanic, nothing more. Not inclined to accept it.

Which brings me to your argument. Mara is indeed impressive, as impressive as Asajj Ventress? Not even close.

I never said she was.

Ventress routinely contested Anakin Skywalker, Mando Maul and Obi-Wan Kenobi whereas Mara was only on par with Kyle Katarn, as you've shown.

You've not connected Skywalker or Kenobi to Katarn, so I have no reason to care.

Now, let's consider for a minute here. Caedus matching Juke indicates superior aug to Kun, as established in my opening post. His scaling to Galen puts him out of his reach in technical skill, which was also established in my opening post. Your chain doesn't disprove that, it's built on a variety of false notions that don't withstand scrutiny in the slightest. On top of the aformentioned, Caedus's pain tolerance (Which allows him to take non-deadly lightsaber strikes without issue, even being amped by them as shown versus Luke) and fighting sight (Which prevents anything Kun does from being unpredictable) will only make this easier, and should allow victory even if I accept the idea that Kun is Caedus's marginal superior as a martial combatant conventionally. My boy wins, plain and simple.


Last edited by ScionOfSkywalker77 on March 21st 2020, 2:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax) - Page 2 Empty Re: SS - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Exar Kun (LadyKulvax)

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