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HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 2:55 pm
AP snapping
Seturna
Seturna
Level One
Level One

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 2:59 pm
We need LoH in here so that he could ragdoll him once again, imo.
Vaelias
Vaelias

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 3:04 pm
@Rei wrote:
@Vaelias wrote:
Well I didn’t actually say in power I just said they were compared and but I think the Spector or the past quote is clear indication

I mean you did say to place Prime Kun between ROTJ Sheev and DE Sheev in the blog and I specifically asked for sources that compare Kun and Sidious in power (which you then replied with the earlier sources).

Well JA Kun would have defiantly been weaker than post ritual pre WOL Kun seeing as a lot of his energy was blocked by the wall of light and the Jedi stopped him before he could become ‘too powerful’, then you have DE Luke being about Yoda level (probably above him) so JA Luke would be above Yoda, and Exar’s Spirit (which is still a fraction of the power that Post ritual pre WOL Kun was) is still above him and also far more powerful than Kueller whom Is comparable to early NJO Luke who is above Yoda who is the most powerful Jedi up to his day, and Post Ritual Pre WOL Kun would likely be twice as powerful as his spirit, seeing as they stopped him before he could become ‘too powerful’ also this was clearly authors intent as Tom Veitch confirmed this which is worth noting even though it was not written into canon, so there’s pre WOL Kun being much more powerful than the Kun that battered around Luke and Kyp, and was confirmed to be >> Kueller, then you have a tiny fraction of his power being planetary, leaving Yavin uninhabitable, also why would this version of Kun be included in the Malak quote when he existed in that form for like a minute, it wouldn’t make sense, the feats support this 100% being able to do something only the 2 other most powerful force users can do puts him up there with them.

There are some claims in your post that I am going to need evidence for. Namely:

  • DE Luke being Yoda level
  • Exar’s spirit being more powerful than JA Luke
  • Exar’s spirit being far more powerful than Kueller
  • Post Ritual Kun being twice as powerful as his spirit. “Too powerful” is not the same as becoming twice as powerful.


Well he contended and beat DE Sheev in sabers, yoda coundnt do this to ROTS Sheev, hes grown since then, he's also Sheevs "most powerful foe'

spirit Kun mentally ragdolled Kyp and through Kyp and 'drove skywalker into a state of near death


The despair in her voice found an ally in the fear writhing into my belly. It had never seemed odd to me that Kyp had been able to slam me into a wall because he had always been more powerful than me. Even when I felt the other presence reinforcing him and got hammered by the combination of them, I never imagined that they could be more powerful than Luke Skywalker. I had even rationalized away the dark man's ability to avoid detection as his being talented in that area, just as I was talented in the area of image projection.
The pure arrogance and stupidity of those ideas slammed hard into me.
--I, Jedi

Afraid to challenge the dark power that had been sufficient to warp other students and defeat Master Skywalker.
--Jedi Academy


Later, Jacen joined forces with the other Jedi students in destroying Exar Kun's spirit forever and freeing Luke's spirit.

Later she became one of Skywalker's Jedi candidates and joined his other Jedi students on Yavin IV in defeating the spirit of Dark Lord Exar Kun, protecting Luke's body and freeing his spirit.
--The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Screen10

This Kueller had more Force capability than anyone she had encountered in years. Except Exar Kun, and he had been a spirit. Kueller was alive.
-- New Rebellion

Sith Spirits are weaker than their living incarnations so this just highlights Kuns Superiority here.

that should be all the stuff you need A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 2257779481
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 3:09 pm
Upvoted for being a thought-provoking piece. A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 1289255181

Needs a revisit from other angles/perspectives which are being overlooked as far as I recall.


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on December 13th 2020, 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Vaelias
Vaelias

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 3:10 pm
@LadyKulvax wrote:
@Vaelias wrote:
@LadyKulvax wrote:Please leave the Kun blogs to me, any misrepresentation of sources at this point is only detrimental to the cause. Not saying I have a monopoly on them, but me and Decaf have been working for years to properly adjust the source material to the best possible manner. Given the Kun RT has 10,000 views. You can expect the best update so far which will answer everything either of you might be considering. You'd be surprised how much gets passed up on.

While i respect your arguments, I feel a lot of them are invalid and/or long debunked, i appreciate you're takes on things, but your arguments include arguing against the generally accepted Malak quote, while we are both clearly Kun fans, i have different interpretations and views, one is not obliged to only respect Kun in the way you do, we both have different takes, with my take I'm accepting everything we have against him and finding a way around it without dismissing anything.


I'd like to see exactly how any of my arguments are 'invalid', which you've yet to show in any way, and I'd also like to see how exactly my arguments consist of 'dismissing' anything.

The argument you present here is nothing but the ritual scaling argument which the vast majority of SI have used so they don't have to concede that they think Malak roflstomps DE Luke. Novel Vitiate > DE Sheev, anyone?

i mean a lot of them are very good and i respect a lot of your arguments, and devotion to the Kunites, but your reliance on non canon author quotes and dismissal of the Malak quote is what makes your arguments less valid, and generally unaccepted by pretty much everyone on this forum lol, that's why Im taking a different approach for our boy Kun

and if the Vast majority of Si use this then why is everyone only just now raising Kun after having read my argument lol
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 5:25 pm
I don't rely on author quotes and I don't dismiss the Malak quote based on nothing. Given it's contradicted on a great many levels, leaving only one valid interpretation left:

Korriban, Star Wars the Old Republic: Encyclopedia wrote:Sith acolytes spill blood and prove their strength in the mausoleums of history's most powerful and legendary Sith Lords.

Pretty much everyone in this thread is mocking me by pretending to agree with you. The fact you don't even realize that is the sad part.

You decided to go on your own tangent and not bother consulting me or Decaf first. If you'd read the RT, you'd know you're wrong already.
Vaelias
Vaelias

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December 13th 2020, 6:54 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
@LadyKulvax wrote:I don't rely on author quotes and I don't dismiss the Malak quote based on nothing. Given it's contradicted on a great many levels, leaving only one valid interpretation left:

Korriban, Star Wars the Old Republic: Encyclopedia wrote:Sith acolytes spill blood and prove their strength in the mausoleums of history's most powerful and legendary Sith Lords.

Pretty much everyone in this thread is mocking me by pretending to agree with you. The fact you don't even realize that is the sad part.

You decided to go on your own tangent and not bother consulting me or Decaf first. If you'd read the RT, you'd know you're wrong already.

yes its obvious i can tell but theres still some people who will be convinced by this argument as it has a bit of a different take instead of trying to dismiss something that that literally 95% agree with and is literally canon lol, and sorry what, how am i wrong do you not agree with it lol.

literally just taking a different take on the matter which is more canonically accurate A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 2257779481
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 10:07 pm
@Vaelias wrote:
Kuns placement is often a controversial one, with things like the Malak quote, Kun being my favorite sith I really wanna c him put to justice and be ranked high as he deserves to be, but obviously for a lot of people this would technically be false. So I’m going to attempt to come at this in a way were we can all agree on Kuns ranking.

Unfortunately like it or not, the Malak Quote exists so we r going to be using it in this Ranking while still having Kun way up there with the big guys... how ? Let me explain!

So according to the Malak Quote, Malak became far more powerful than even Exar Kun, Veitch has confirmed that Kun was more powerful in TOTJ than he was in JA, which when thinking about it, it kinda doesn’t make sense given that JA Kun has inanse hype and more impressive feats, but this wasn’t so much a confirmation as it is just his opinion, and not actually confirmed in the lore, there’s also sources comparing Kun and ROTJ Sidious, this was clearly the intention originally, however now it seems Kun as been pushed back by the newer content, so if Kun is locked behind Malak how can all this still be true ?

Following quote: "An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. He also wore a vocal mask that may have concealed a form of cybernetic life-support. Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?" - Wizards of the Coast: Darth Malak

- is open to interpretation about what could be the factors that enabled Darth Malak to surpass the likes of Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd. Most likely explanation is the Star Forge. It was on this space station that Exar Kun created a supply of reserves for himself to draw from and benefit from this arrangement.

"The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed." - Star Wars Databanks: Darth Malak

Darth Traya claimed that Freedon Nadd was far worse than both Darth Malak and Darth Revan but this is an opinion and therefore open to interpretation. Remember Darth Revan's holocron and its impressive contents?

Darth Malak is counted among the most powerful Force-users in history besides Darth Revan and Exar Kun:

Some of history's most powerful Force-users trained in the halls of the Jedi Enclave on Dantooine. Only students with great potential were admitted, and while the rigorous training produced exceptional Jedi, the fall of several notable students to the dark side cast a pall on the institution's legacy. Exar Kun, Darth Revan, and Darth Malak all trained at the enclave on Dantooine. - SWTOR: codex entry: Jedi Enclave Ruins

There is room for arguments in favor of both.

@Vaelias wrote:
Well Kuns prime is not TOTJ Kun or JA Kun it’s Post Ritual Pre Wall of Light Kun, who is not locked down by anything and is the only one other than DE Sheev and Valkorion to be able to exist as a spirit without an anchor while maintaining his full power, only a fraction of Kuns power was redirected at Yavin and made it uninhabitable for 2 years, this is Kuns prime version which I would personally place just below Valk, thers a lot of seemingly out of place Kun quotes saying he is well up there, however id attribute these quotes to Post Ritual pre WOL Kun so we dont have to ignore them

That would be Exar Kun in the following phase:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Exar-Kun-Ritual

But Exar Kun had sensed the approach of the Republic forces and laid preparations. Summoning his loyal Massassi warriors, he performed a dreadful ritual that drained them of their life essence. Exar Kun became a spirit of pure darkness. - SWTOR: Codex entry: Galactic History 61: The Brotherhood is Broken

Then came the WALL OF LIGHT:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4a

The Jedi in the fleet sensed Exar Kun's actions. Led by Nomi, they created a "wall of light" through the Force. Exar Kun found himself trapped within the temples of Yavin Four for eternity, screaming with rage and helpless to escape. - SWTOR: Codex entry: Galactic History 61: The Brotherhood is Broken

It looks like the WALL of Light made Yavin 4 inhabitable for 2 years.

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Post-Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Post-Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4a

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Exar-Kun-Spirit-Temples1

@Vaelias wrote:
This would explain how JA Kun would be more powerful than base TOTJ Kun, let’s say Kun tripled in power after the ritual, even if that strength got cut in half after the Wall of light, he’d still be more powerful, it can also be an explanation for why Kun is constantly compared to Sidious and noted as one of the most powerful sith ever.

The scan right above show that the Exar Kun's trapped spirit needed to draw from the energy of living beings to manifest itself. This is further corroborated in the source below:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Exar-Kun-Return

From Star Wars - D6 - The Jedi Academy Sourcebook

The Exar Kun's trapped spirit wasn't comparable to his strength back in the days of his physical prime before he commenced the ritual. His ultimate goal is to restore his lost reserves of energy and acquire a suitable host.

@Vaelias wrote:
So yeh while still placing base Kun below Malak you can also place PRIME Kun between ROTJ Sheev and DE Sheev.   Also this version of Kun likely smacks most people in VS seeing as he is around Sheev level, a case can even be made for him to beat DE Sheev in this iteration seeing as he was the only character that would be that highly ranked whilst also being a dedicated lightsaber duelist.


So...

Post Ritual Pre Wall of Light Kun >>> JA Kun >> Base TOTJ Kun



DE Sheev >~ Valkorion >~ Prime Kun >>>>JA Kun >>>>> Malak >> Base living Kun >>> Nadd >> Sadow

The Exar Kun's trapped spirit become very powerful on Kyp Durron's hate:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Exar-Kun-defeat-Luke

From Star Wars - D6 - The Jedi Academy Sourcebook

Not sure how strong it is but following is informative:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Exar-Kun-defeat1

From Star Wars - D6 - The Jedi Academy Sourcebook
Vaelias
Vaelias

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 14th 2020, 11:59 am
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:
@Vaelias wrote:
Kuns placement is often a controversial one, with things like the Malak quote, Kun being my favorite sith I really wanna c him put to justice and be ranked high as he deserves to be, but obviously for a lot of people this would technically be false. So I’m going to attempt to come at this in a way were we can all agree on Kuns ranking.

Unfortunately like it or not, the Malak Quote exists so we r going to be using it in this Ranking while still having Kun way up there with the big guys... how ? Let me explain!

So according to the Malak Quote, Malak became far more powerful than even Exar Kun, Veitch has confirmed that Kun was more powerful in TOTJ than he was in JA, which when thinking about it, it kinda doesn’t make sense given that JA Kun has inanse hype and more impressive feats, but this wasn’t so much a confirmation as it is just his opinion, and not actually confirmed in the lore, there’s also sources comparing Kun and ROTJ Sidious, this was clearly the intention originally, however now it seems Kun as been pushed back by the newer content, so if Kun is locked behind Malak how can all this still be true ?

Following quote: "An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. He also wore a vocal mask that may have concealed a form of cybernetic life-support. Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?" - Wizards of the Coast: Darth Malak

- is open to interpretation about what could be the factors that enabled Darth Malak to surpass the likes of Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd. Most likely explanation is the Star Forge. It was on this space station that Exar Kun created a supply of reserves for himself to draw from and benefit from this arrangement.

"The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed." - Star Wars Databanks: Darth Malak

Darth Traya claimed that Freedon Nadd was far worse than both Darth Malak and Darth Revan but this is an opinion and therefore open to interpretation. Remember Darth Revan's holocron and its impressive contents?

Darth Malak is counted among the most powerful Force-users in history besides Darth Revan and Exar Kun:

Some of history's most powerful Force-users trained in the halls of the Jedi Enclave on Dantooine. Only students with great potential were admitted, and while the rigorous training produced exceptional Jedi, the fall of several notable students to the dark side cast a pall on the institution's legacy. Exar Kun, Darth Revan, and Darth Malak all trained at the enclave on Dantooine. - SWTOR: codex entry: Jedi Enclave Ruins

There is room for arguments in favor of both.

@Vaelias wrote:
Well Kuns prime is not TOTJ Kun or JA Kun it’s Post Ritual Pre Wall of Light Kun, who is not locked down by anything and is the only one other than DE Sheev and Valkorion to be able to exist as a spirit without an anchor while maintaining his full power, only a fraction of Kuns power was redirected at Yavin and made it uninhabitable for 2 years, this is Kuns prime version which I would personally place just below Valk, thers a lot of seemingly out of place Kun quotes saying he is well up there, however id attribute these quotes to Post Ritual pre WOL Kun so we dont have to ignore them

That would be Exar Kun in the following phase:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Exar-Kun-Ritual

But Exar Kun had sensed the approach of the Republic forces and laid preparations. Summoning his loyal Massassi warriors, he performed a dreadful ritual that drained them of their life essence. Exar Kun became a spirit of pure darkness. - SWTOR: Codex entry: Galactic History 61: The Brotherhood is Broken

Then came the WALL OF LIGHT:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4a

The Jedi in the fleet sensed Exar Kun's actions. Led by Nomi, they created a "wall of light" through the Force. Exar Kun found himself trapped within the temples of Yavin Four for eternity, screaming with rage and helpless to escape. - SWTOR: Codex entry: Galactic History 61: The Brotherhood is Broken

It looks like the WALL of Light made Yavin 4 inhabitable for 2 years.

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Post-Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Post-Wall-of-Light-Yavin-4a

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Exar-Kun-Spirit-Temples1

@Vaelias wrote:
This would explain how JA Kun would be more powerful than base TOTJ Kun, let’s say Kun tripled in power after the ritual, even if that strength got cut in half after the Wall of light, he’d still be more powerful, it can also be an explanation for why Kun is constantly compared to Sidious and noted as one of the most powerful sith ever.

The scan right above show that the Exar Kun's trapped spirit needed to draw from the energy of living beings to manifest itself. This is further corroborated in the source below:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Exar-Kun-Return

From Star Wars - D6 - The Jedi Academy Sourcebook

The Exar Kun's trapped spirit wasn't comparable to his strength back in the days of his physical prime before he commenced the ritual. His ultimate goal is to restore his lost reserves of energy and acquire a suitable host.

@Vaelias wrote:
So yeh while still placing base Kun below Malak you can also place PRIME Kun between ROTJ Sheev and DE Sheev.   Also this version of Kun likely smacks most people in VS seeing as he is around Sheev level, a case can even be made for him to beat DE Sheev in this iteration seeing as he was the only character that would be that highly ranked whilst also being a dedicated lightsaber duelist.


So...

Post Ritual Pre Wall of Light Kun >>> JA Kun >> Base TOTJ Kun



DE Sheev >~ Valkorion >~ Prime Kun >>>>JA Kun >>>>> Malak >> Base living Kun >>> Nadd >> Sadow

The Exar Kun's trapped spirit become very powerful on Kyp Durron's hate:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Exar-Kun-defeat-Luke

From Star Wars - D6 - The Jedi Academy Sourcebook

Not sure how strong it is but following is informative:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Exar-Kun-defeat1

From Star Wars - D6 - The Jedi Academy Sourcebook

looks good thanks for substantiating on my arguments, hopefully more people with doubts will be more convinced now. A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 2257779481
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 14th 2020, 7:29 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Awesome job man, good thread. A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 1289255181

I don't think AP can stand after that whoopin'.
Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

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December 15th 2020, 10:50 am
Interesting read. Wouldn't this also mean that the ancients are capped below Prime Kun rather than Base Kun (Malak quote) as well? This would also be a lot more consistent when you take Malak's feat with some of the ancients.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

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December 15th 2020, 6:53 pm
Obviously not when Kun surpassed the ancients far before his prime in TOTJ. Most of what has been argued here isn't supported well by many sources. A quick read through my RT makes it clear exactly how Kun's spirit worked.
The Found
The Found

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December 15th 2020, 7:57 pm
@Darth Nihilus wrote:Interesting read. Wouldn't this also mean that the ancients are capped below Prime Kun rather than Base Kun (Malak quote) as well? This would also be a lot more consistent when you take Malak's feat with some of the ancients.
Yeah I thought the same thing. In retrospect Kun's supremacy quotes make a lot more sense when you realise they're talking about prime Kun seeing as all of his living feats are as lackluster as the arguments were for him prior to this thread. I really had Kun in the shitter until recently.
Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

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December 15th 2020, 8:32 pm
@LadyKulvax wrote:Obviously not when Kun surpassed the ancients far before his prime in TOTJ. Most of what has been argued here isn't supported well by many sources. A quick read through my RT makes it clear exactly how Kun's spirit worked.

And how exactly do you know when Kun surpassed ancients like Marka Ragnos and Tulak? Also it is getting annoying now when you keep pretending like everything you say/argue is the "correct" thing.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

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December 15th 2020, 9:02 pm
Because Kun's stated to recieve power from Ragnos's spirit himself after dueling Ulic, that's a permanent boost of power. He's also quite possibly absorbed the power of Nadd's spirit when he absorbed all of his knowledge which is before he even leaves Yavin IV. Then there's Tulak Hord becoming an Exile via SE which canonically makes him far less powerful than Naga Sadow per KOTOR:CG.

Stating what's said in the sources is annoying? Really? You're that diametrically opposed to stated facts that you think I'm annoying? I have all of the sources to back up my claims in my RT. Just read it.
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

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December 15th 2020, 9:53 pm
@LadyKulvax wrote:Because Kun's stated to recieve power from Ragnos's spirit himself after dueling Ulic, that's a permanent boost of power. He's also quite possibly absorbed the power of Nadd's spirit when he absorbed all of his knowledge which is before he even leaves Yavin IV. Then there's Tulak Hord becoming an Exile via SE which canonically makes him far less powerful than Naga Sadow per KOTOR:CG.

Stating what's said in the sources is annoying? Really? You're that diametrically opposed to stated facts that you think I'm annoying? I have all of the sources to back up my claims in my RT. Just read it.

Could you post them instead? It will be easier for everyone if you did that. I don't think anyone here is willing to blindly look through a RT.


Last edited by VictreebelVictr on December 15th 2020, 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

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December 15th 2020, 9:56 pm
@LadyKulvax wrote:Because Kun's stated to recieve power from Ragnos's spirit himself after dueling Ulic, that's a permanent boost of power.

And how exactly does that mean that Kun became more powerful than Marka Ragnos in that timeline? Because he got some dark side power from Ragnos? Even Ulic was given power from Ragnos's spirit and both were evenly matched after. All that happened is that Ragnos gave Kun and Ulic dark side power to complete their initiation to the dark side. Nowhere does that mean that Kun surpassed Ragnos right then.

Then there's Tulak Hord becoming an Exile via SE which canonically makes him far less powerful than Naga Sadow per KOTOR:CG.

Citation needed.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

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December 16th 2020, 12:19 am
I'll reply to both of you when I'm off work.
Shimrra
Shimrra

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December 16th 2020, 5:37 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Good case @Vaelias
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

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December 16th 2020, 10:44 am
Message reputation : 100% (3 votes)
Vaelias did what AP couldn't for years. We should crown him the new leader of Kun Brigade and Decaf as his right hand man. AP can at best be the secretary of the state.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 17th 2020, 10:30 am
@Darth Nihilus wrote:
@LadyKulvax wrote:Because Kun's stated to recieve power from Ragnos's spirit himself after dueling Ulic, that's a permanent boost of power.

And how exactly does that mean that Kun became more powerful than Marka Ragnos in that timeline? Because he got some dark side power from Ragnos? Even Ulic was given power from Ragnos's spirit and both were evenly matched after. All that happened is that Ragnos gave Kun and Ulic dark side power to complete their initiation to the dark side.

Marka Ragnos states quite literally "My power is all that concerns you." as he is imbuing both men with power stated to be beyond any power Aleema Keto had ever achieved with magic:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1Ijb3a_rahO78d3MiL7wGPk81r-3NHS2IXQ&usqp=CAU
A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGOFT3APH4oq7ZR9mJ-ahhK9ZPV155elER6A&usqp=CAU

Now sure, you can go ahead and argue that this doesn't mean Kun surpassed Ragnos. But here's the point. We know that Kun's TCSWE supremacy quote applies up to 'that point in the timeline'. Sansweet, the author, said so himself:

A Case for Exar Kun - Page 2 Screenshot_20200924-062005_Facebook

This means that Kun at some point surpassed Marka Ragnos, given that the above occurred and the exact wording of Ragnos, then it is more than safe to assume that said 'point in the timeline' was when Ragnos imbued him with his power and gave Kun the title of Dark Lord of the Sith.

@Darth Nihilus wrote:
Then there's Tulak Hord becoming an Exile via SE which canonically makes him far less powerful than Naga Sadow per KOTOR:CG.

Citation needed.

I can't cite a source that doesn't exist in a published state yet. Luckily, Ant himself has talked to the authors of said source and made it clear they think he can only logically be an Exile. So it's a matter of when not if.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

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December 17th 2020, 2:06 pm
^^^

It does not change the fact that the source (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia) is explicitly advanced as an account of "historians." And it is outdated = these archives are incomplete.

WE are getting latest updates from SWTOR and affiliated books in fact. These updates make a solid case for Tulak Hord (versus Naga Sadow among others).
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

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December 17th 2020, 2:29 pm
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:^^^

These updates make a solid case for Tulak Hord (versus Naga Sadow among others).

That's intriguing, how so?
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

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December 17th 2020, 8:07 pm
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:^^^

It does not change the fact that the source (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia) is explicitly advanced as an account of "historians." And it is outdated = these archives are incomplete.

WE are getting latest updates from SWTOR and affiliated books in fact. These updates make a solid case for Tulak Hord (versus Naga Sadow among others).

TCSWE is an IU Omniscient source fact-checked by Leland Chee. It's binding.
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December 17th 2020, 8:20 pm
@Darth Nihilus wrote:Interesting read. Wouldn't this also mean that the ancients are capped below Prime Kun rather than Base Kun (Malak quote) as well? This would also be a lot more consistent when you take Malak's feat with some of the ancients.

thanks, i wouldn't say so though, i don't think prime kuns power level would be included seeing as he only existed in that incarnation for like 1 minute, no one was witness to any of his powers because he was stopped so quick
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