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Vaelias
Vaelias

A Case for Exar Kun Empty A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 7:14 pm
Message reputation : 100% (6 votes)
A Case for Exar Kun



This is nothing too big but I’d just like to bring some light to a few things here

Kuns placement is often a controversial one, with things like the Malak quote, Kun being my favorite sith I really wanna c him put to justice and be ranked high as he deserves to be, but obviously for a lot of people this would technically be false. So I’m going to attempt to come at this in a way were we can all agree on Kuns ranking.

Unfortunately like it or not, the Malak Quote exists so we r going to be using it in this Ranking while still having Kun way up there with the big guys... how ? Let me explain!

So according to the Malak Quote, Malak became far more powerful than even Exar Kun, Veitch has confirmed that Kun was more powerful in TOTJ than he was in JA, which when thinking about it, it kinda doesn’t make sense given that JA Kun has inanse hype and more impressive feats, but this wasn’t so much a confirmation as it is just his opinion, and not actually confirmed in the lore, there’s also sources comparing Kun and ROTJ Sidious, this was clearly the intention originally, however now it seems Kun as been pushed back by the newer content, so if Kun is locked behind Malak how can all this still be true ?


Well Kuns prime is not TOTJ Kun or JA Kun it’s Post Ritual Pre Wall of Light Kun, who is not locked down by anything and is the only one other than DE Sheev and Valkorion to be able to exist as a spirit without an anchor while maintaining his full power, only a fraction of Kuns power was redirected at Yavin and made it uninhabitable for 2 years, this is Kuns prime version which I would personally place just below Valk, thers a lot of seemingly out of place Kun quotes saying he is well up there, however id attribute these quotes to Post Ritual pre WOL Kun so we dont have to ignore them

This would explain how JA Kun would be more powerful than base TOTJ Kun, let’s say Kun tripled in power after the ritual, even if that strength got cut in half after the Wall of light, he’d still be more powerful, it can also be an explanation for why Kun is constantly compared to Sidious and noted as one of the most powerful sith ever.

So yeh while still placing base Kun below Malak you can also place PRIME Kun between ROTJ Sheev and DE Sheev.   Also this version of Kun likely smacks most people in VS seeing as he is around Sheev level, a case can even be made for him to beat DE Sheev in this iteration seeing as he was the only character that would be that highly ranked whilst also being a dedicated lightsaber duelist.


So...

Post Ritual Pre Wall of Light Kun >>> JA Kun >> Base TOTJ Kun



DE Sheev >~ Valkorion >~ Prime Kun >>>>JA Kun >>>>> Malak >> Base living Kun >>> Nadd >> Sadow
Rei
Rei

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 7:37 pm
What sources compare Kun to Sidious in power?
The Found
The Found

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 7:44 pm
Damn, I'm actually convinced. Good job Vaelias. I'm glad someone finally made a good case for Kun around here after all these years.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 7:46 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Please leave the Kun blogs to me, any misrepresentation of sources at this point is only detrimental to the cause. Not saying I have a monopoly on them, but me and Decaf have been working for years to properly adjust the source material to the best possible manner. Given the Kun RT has 10,000 views. You can expect the best update so far which will answer everything either of you might be considering. You'd be surprised how much gets passed up on.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Three
Level Three

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 7:48 pm
Nice blog, best one I've ever seen for Kun  A Case for Exar Kun 1289255181
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
Level One
Level One

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 7:52 pm
Yo Bret great stuff bro, haha. Genuinely changed my stance on Kun, something that dozens of previous Kun blogs have failed to do. A Case for Exar Kun 1289255181
Thij
Thij

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 7:56 pm
Excellent Work! Probably the most convincing argument I've seen for Kun.
The Adventurous Jedi
The Adventurous Jedi
Level Seven
Level Seven

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 8:03 pm
Such a wonderfully fabulous argument that instantly convinced me of Kun's magnificence - which other debaters have been failing at doing for years. Good on you, Vaelias!
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 8:29 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Vaelias: Nice blog.
Vaelias
Vaelias

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 8:29 pm
@Rei wrote:What sources compare Kun to Sidious in power?

A Case for Exar Kun Image010
A Case for Exar Kun Img-9210
A Case for Exar Kun Screen10

There in front of him, starkly visible against the blackness of space, he could see the faint images of Emperor Palpatine and Exar Kun, two of the greatest focal points of the dark side he’d ever had to face. They were standing there before him, gazing back at him. And laughing.
--Specter of the Past
Vaelias
Vaelias

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 8:37 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
@LadyKulvax wrote:Please leave the Kun blogs to me, any misrepresentation of sources at this point is only detrimental to the cause. Not saying I have a monopoly on them, but me and Decaf have been working for years to properly adjust the source material to the best possible manner. Given the Kun RT has 10,000 views. You can expect the best update so far which will answer everything either of you might be considering. You'd be surprised how much gets passed up on.

While i respect your arguments, I feel a lot of them are invalid and/or long debunked, i appreciate you're takes on things, but your arguments include arguing against the generally accepted Malak quote, while we are both clearly Kun fans, i have different interpretations and views, one is not obliged to only respect Kun in the way you do, we both have different takes, with my take I'm accepting everything we have against him and finding a way around it without dismissing anything.
The Found
The Found

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 8:39 pm
I think the argument which acknowledges evidence and reality is typically better than the one which tries to ignore it, yeah. A Case for Exar Kun 1289255181
Vaelias
Vaelias

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 8:47 pm
Thanks Guys !!!
Rei
Rei

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 9:19 pm
@Vaelias

The attempts to exclude “prime Kun” from the Malak quote really do not work.

The Malak quote was made in 2003 while most of the sources you are giving that supposedly say that Sidious and Kun are near equals in power are well before that. I do not see why the “Prime” version of Kun that was established well before 2003 would be excluded from the 2003 quote [1]. Even then, the sources you gave do not state that Sidious and Kun are near equal in power anyways.

The first image does not compare Kun to Sidious in power at all. It is comparing for how long each person’s spirit has survived. It is saying that Exar Kun “topped them all” in that his spirit has survived for four millennia, which is much longer than any of the others being mentioned. This is what Kun “topped them all” in. Not power.

In the second image, I do not see any comparison being made between Kun and Sidious in power or even anything else. More-so, this suffers from point [1] as it was made well before the 2003 Malak quote, a quote that would consider any previous information and establishments about Kun.

The Specter of the Past passage again does not compare Kun and Sidious in power. It is merely saying that Palpatine and Kun are the two greatest focal points of dark side that Luke has faced by that point. That does not mean that Sidious and Kun are just as powerful or near equals. Nonetheless, this also suffers from [1] as Specter of the Past was published in 1997, which is well before the 2003 Malak quote.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 9:42 pm
Interesting argument. Will give it some thought but will consider raising Kun's position if the sources properly back it up. Haven't seen a comprehensive Kun post on this level in a while. A year or two, actually.
Vaelias
Vaelias

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 10:20 pm
@Rei wrote:@Vaelias

The attempts to exclude “prime Kun” from the Malak quote really do not work.

The Malak quote was made in 2003 while most of the sources you are giving that supposedly say that Sidious and Kun are near equals in power are well before that. I do not see why the “Prime” version of Kun that was established well before 2003 would be excluded from the 2003 quote [1]. Even then, the sources you gave do not state that Sidious and Kun are near equal in power anyways.

The first image does not compare Kun to Sidious in power at all. It is comparing for how long each person’s spirit has survived. It is saying that Exar Kun “topped them all” in that his spirit has survived for four millennia, which is much longer than any of the others being mentioned. This is what Kun “topped them all” in. Not power.

In the second image, I do not see any comparison being made between Kun and Sidious in power or even anything else. More-so, this suffers from point [1] as it was made well before the 2003 Malak quote, a quote that would consider any previous information and establishments about Kun.

The Specter of the Past passage again does not compare Kun and Sidious in power. It is merely saying that Palpatine and Kun are the two greatest focal points of dark side that Luke has faced by that point. That does not mean that Sidious and Kun are just as powerful or near equals. Nonetheless, this also suffers from [1] as Specter of the Past was published in 1997, which is well before the 2003 Malak quote.

Well I didn’t actually say in power I just said they were compared and but I think the Spector or the past quote is clear indication

Well JA Kun would have defiantly been weaker than post ritual pre WOL Kun seeing as a lot of his energy was blocked by the wall of light and the Jedi stopped him before he could become ‘too powerful’, then you have DE Luke being about Yoda level (probably above him) so JA Luke would be above Yoda, and Exar’s Spirit (which is still a fraction of the power that Post ritual pre WOL Kun was) is still above him and also far more powerful than Kueller whom Is comparable to early NJO Luke who is above Yoda who is the most powerful Jedi up to his day, and Post Ritual Pre WOL Kun would likely be twice as powerful as his spirit, seeing as they stopped him before he could become ‘too powerful’ also this was clearly authors intent as Tom Veitch confirmed this which is worth noting even though it was not written into canon, so there’s pre WOL Kun being much more powerful than the Kun that battered around Luke and Kyp, and was confirmed to be >> Kueller, then you have a tiny fraction of his power being planetary, leaving Yavin uninhabitable, also why would this version of Kun be included in the Malak quote when he existed in that form for like a minute, it wouldn’t make sense, the feats support this 100% being able to do something only the 2 other most powerful force users can do puts him up there with them.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 10:36 pm
@Vaelias wrote:
@LadyKulvax wrote:Please leave the Kun blogs to me, any misrepresentation of sources at this point is only detrimental to the cause. Not saying I have a monopoly on them, but me and Decaf have been working for years to properly adjust the source material to the best possible manner. Given the Kun RT has 10,000 views. You can expect the best update so far which will answer everything either of you might be considering. You'd be surprised how much gets passed up on.

While i respect your arguments, I feel a lot of them are invalid and/or long debunked, i appreciate you're takes on things, but your arguments include arguing against the generally accepted Malak quote, while we are both clearly Kun fans, i have different interpretations and views, one is not obliged to only respect Kun in the way you do, we both have different takes, with my take I'm accepting everything we have against him and finding a way around it without dismissing anything.


I'd like to see exactly how any of my arguments are 'invalid', which you've yet to show in any way, and I'd also like to see how exactly my arguments consist of 'dismissing' anything.

The argument you present here is nothing but the ritual scaling argument which the vast majority of SI have used so they don't have to concede that they think Malak roflstomps DE Luke. Novel Vitiate > DE Sheev, anyone?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 10:37 pm
AP, chill. His choice if he represents the character.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level Two
Level Two

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 11:02 pm
Good job vaelias interesting read indeed A Case for Exar Kun 1289255181
Rei
Rei

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 12th 2020, 11:47 pm
@Vaelias wrote:
Well I didn’t actually say in power I just said they were compared and but I think the Spector or the past quote is clear indication

I mean you did say to place Prime Kun between ROTJ Sheev and DE Sheev in the blog and I specifically asked for sources that compare Kun and Sidious in power (which you then replied with the earlier sources).

Well JA Kun would have defiantly been weaker than post ritual pre WOL Kun seeing as a lot of his energy was blocked by the wall of light and the Jedi stopped him before he could become ‘too powerful’, then you have DE Luke being about Yoda level (probably above him) so JA Luke would be above Yoda, and Exar’s Spirit (which is still a fraction of the power that Post ritual pre WOL Kun was) is still above him and also far more powerful than Kueller whom Is comparable to early NJO Luke who is above Yoda who is the most powerful Jedi up to his day, and Post Ritual Pre WOL Kun would likely be twice as powerful as his spirit, seeing as they stopped him before he could become ‘too powerful’ also this was clearly authors intent as Tom Veitch confirmed this which is worth noting even though it was not written into canon, so there’s pre WOL Kun being much more powerful than the Kun that battered around Luke and Kyp, and was confirmed to be >> Kueller, then you have a tiny fraction of his power being planetary, leaving Yavin uninhabitable, also why would this version of Kun be included in the Malak quote when he existed in that form for like a minute, it wouldn’t make sense, the feats support this 100% being able to do something only the 2 other most powerful force users can do puts him up there with them.

There are some claims in your post that I am going to need evidence for. Namely:

  • DE Luke being Yoda level
  • Exar’s spirit being more powerful than JA Luke
  • Exar’s spirit being far more powerful than Kueller
  • Post Ritual Kun being twice as powerful as his spirit. “Too powerful” is not the same as becoming twice as powerful.
RedGuard1an
RedGuard1an

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 4:50 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Who tf is Bret lol
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 8:42 am
Good to see some discussion flowing, keep it up.
Seturna
Seturna
Level One
Level One

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 2:05 pm
Probably the best Kun argument i’ve seen in ages, good work.
The Found
The Found

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 2:39 pm
I'd say this thread is a good example of why a rough diamond is always going to beat out a well-polished turd
RedGuard1an
RedGuard1an

A Case for Exar Kun Empty Re: A Case for Exar Kun

December 13th 2020, 2:53 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
The virgin Exar Kun Respect Thread vs the chad A Case for Exar Kun
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