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Seturna
Seturna
Level One
Level One

Darth Vader(ROTJ) vs Count Dooku(ROTS) vs Maul(SoD) - Page 2 Empty Re: Darth Vader(ROTJ) vs Count Dooku(ROTS) vs Maul(SoD)

on November 15th 2020, 3:48 pm
My bad. Just noticed you weren’t talking about me. Though i’d still leave the quote here for everyone to see, ig.
Supreme Leader
Supreme Leader

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on November 15th 2020, 4:40 pm
After a single brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi years ago, and only a short time with Yoda, Skywalker is able to hold up against a Dark Lord of the Sith at the height of his powers.

Or

His power was great, now, greater than it had ever been.

As for Lucas' quote, Anakin is more powerful than Vader. But Vader has much more mastery and much more experience.
Vaelias
Vaelias

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on November 15th 2020, 4:44 pm
I think it’s pretty clear that this is referring solely to Suit Vader and how he’s grown since ANH and not including pre Suit Vader, given that he was stated to be as powerful as the emperor, and then Palpatine was stated to ‘raise a hand’ and kill Suit Vader
Supreme Leader
Supreme Leader

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on November 15th 2020, 4:53 pm
When was it stated? A weakened Vader literally resisted ROTJ Sheev's lightning. Everyone knows ROTJ Sheev is much more powerful than ROTS Sheev.
Seturna
Seturna
Level One
Level One

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on November 15th 2020, 5:06 pm
As for Lucas' quote, Anakin is more powerful than Vader. But Vader has much more mastery and much more experience.

Substantiation here please.
Thij
Thij

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on November 15th 2020, 5:21 pm
Darth Vader(ROTJ) vs Count Dooku(ROTS) vs Maul(SoD) - Page 2 3366773415
Supreme Leader
Supreme Leader

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on November 15th 2020, 5:28 pm
Lucas said "from then on, Vader isn't as strong as Sheev". I am pretty sure it is referring to power.

Strong means; having the power to move heavy weights or perform other physically demanding tasks.

The Sith Lord is now more experienced and powerful.


Vader has much more experience and much more mastery than Anakin. Anakin is more powerful than Vader but it doesn't matter. Vader can make up for this gap due to his experience and mastery.
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

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on November 15th 2020, 7:37 pm
Dooku could literally just snap his fingers and their major arteries would pop.
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Two
Level Two

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on November 15th 2020, 8:52 pm
Stalemate.
Vaelias
Vaelias

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on November 15th 2020, 9:49 pm
DARK LORD OF THE SITH wrote:Lucas said "from then on, Vader isn't as strong as Sheev". I am pretty sure it is referring to power.

Strong means; having the power to move heavy weights or perform other physically demanding tasks.

The Sith Lord is now more experienced and powerful.


Vader has much more experience and much more mastery than Anakin. Anakin is more powerful than Vader but it doesn't matter. Vader can make up for this gap due to his experience and mastery.

The quote actually says power if I’m not mistaken and even if I’m wrong, strong still means the same thing in this case, I doubt Lucas is saying now vader can’t lift as much weight as Sheev LMAO
Vaelias
Vaelias

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on November 15th 2020, 9:50 pm
DARK LORD OF THE SITH wrote:When was it stated? A weakened Vader literally resisted ROTJ Sheev's lightning. Everyone knows ROTJ Sheev is much more powerful than ROTS Sheev.

Resisted and then died yes, it’s possible Sheev wasn’t even using his lightning at full force cos he didn’t one shot Luke, and he definitely could have done seeing as it’s stated that Sheev can one shot Vader who at this point is stronger than Luke
Supreme Leader
Supreme Leader

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on November 16th 2020, 3:41 am
Well, the quote is referring to power in the force. Anakin is more powerful but Vader is more skilled at using the force. He has much more mastery and much more experience than Anakin. I think Vader's mastery and experience can make up for this power gap. And no, Sheev used his full power. Vader resisted Sheev's lightning and saved his son. Vader died because he was weakened. If he hadn't been weakened, he probably would've lived.

Darth Vader(ROTJ) vs Count Dooku(ROTS) vs Maul(SoD) - Page 2 Vader_10
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

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on November 16th 2020, 8:20 am
DARK LORD OF THE SITH wrote:Lucas said "from then on, Vader isn't as strong as Sheev". I am pretty sure it is referring to power.

Strong means; having the power to move heavy weights or perform other physically demanding tasks.

The Sith Lord is now more experienced and powerful.


Vader has much more experience and much more mastery than Anakin. Anakin is more powerful than Vader but it doesn't matter. Vader can make up for this gap due to his experience and mastery.
It refers to strength in the force not physical strength. Else it would be implying Maul is physically weaker than Palps lol.
Seturna
Seturna
Level One
Level One

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on November 16th 2020, 8:32 am
Why is Vader more experienced/masterful than Anakin even? And why would that make up the gap in power?
Supreme Leader
Supreme Leader

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on November 16th 2020, 10:14 am
Vader lost his power, not his experience and mastery. He fought new opponents and developed himself in using the force. His experience and mastery could make up for this power gap because multiple sources say Vader was at the height of his power during ROTJ. Vader was at the height of his power although he was less powerful than Anakin because he has become more experienced over time and this power gap has been closed.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

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on November 16th 2020, 10:27 am
Anakin Skywalker = capable of surprises (remarkable feats of strength) under the right circumstances or in the right frame of mind but not consistent in his showings; prone to giving into his impulses and bad judgements

Darth Vader = superior command of the Force and more consistent


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on November 16th 2020, 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total
DarthFatcow
DarthFatcow

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on November 16th 2020, 11:31 am
DARK LORD OF THE SITH wrote:Vader lost his power, not his experience and mastery. He fought new opponents and developed himself in using the force. His experience and mastery could make up for this power gap because multiple sources say Vader was at the height of his power during ROTJ. Vader was at the height of his power although he was less powerful than Anakin because he has become more experienced over time and this power gap has been closed.

You know who had lots of experience, training and mastery? Count Dooku. He had over 75 years of it, and he was beaten in brutal fashion of Pre Suit Anakin/Vader. Suit Vader's experience in training and mastery does not hold a candle to Dooku's, nor would it actually count for anything due to the gap in force powers between them. And those sources you're referring to are overruled by higher sources, and all of them flat out state Pre Suit Vader was superior.
Seturna
Seturna
Level One
Level One

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on November 16th 2020, 11:34 am
Also don’t get how height of his powers quote translates to more experience/mastery either. When it’s directly(at least from my interpretation) saying he was the strongest he’s ever been. Which is contradicted by Lucas.
Supreme Leader
Supreme Leader

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on November 16th 2020, 12:10 pm
Well, Anakin is more powerful but Vader has superior command of the force because he has comparable power, much more experience and much more mastery. That's why he is said to be at the height of his power.
Supreme Leader
Supreme Leader

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on November 16th 2020, 12:29 pm
@DarthFatcow wrote:
DARK LORD OF THE SITH wrote:Vader lost his power, not his experience and mastery. He fought new opponents and developed himself in using the force. His experience and mastery could make up for this power gap because multiple sources say Vader was at the height of his power during ROTJ. Vader was at the height of his power although he was less powerful than Anakin because he has become more experienced over time and this power gap has been closed.

You know who had lots of experience, training and mastery? Count Dooku. He had over 75 years of it, and he was beaten in brutal fashion of Pre Suit Anakin/Vader. Suit Vader's experience in training and mastery does not hold a candle to Dooku's, nor would it actually count for anything due to the gap in force powers between them. And those sources you're referring to are overruled by higher sources, and all of them flat out state Pre Suit Vader was superior.
Anakin completely outclassed Dooku because he had some advantages over Dooku. Djem So >> Makashi and Dooku used much of his power to defeat Kenobi. If Anakin didn't have these advantages, Dooku might've given Anakin a decent fight. And I wonder what source disproves these quotes. If you are referring to Lucas' quote, It is referring to power. Yeah, Anakin is more powerful but Vader has superior command of the force because he has comparable power, much more experience and much more mastery. That's why he is said to be at the height of his power.
DarthFatcow
DarthFatcow

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on November 16th 2020, 12:49 pm
Anakin completely outclassed Dooku because he had some advantages over Dooku. Djem So >> Makashi and Dooku used much of his power to defeat Kenobi.  If Anakin didn't have these advantages, Dooku might've given Anakin a decent fight.
Anakin was a tier 9 as of RoTS. He was canonically superior to Dooku and on par with Sidious and Yoda. That's beyond the multitude of statements that state Anakin's superiority to Dooku in power. The way he beat him wouldn't have mattered because he was already superior to him at that point.

And I wonder what source disproves these quotes. If you are referring to Lucas' quote, It is referring to power.
Yes. Meaning all the training and experience RoTJ Vader has isn't gonna close the power gap because training doesn't increase your actual force power.  

Yeah, Anakin is more powerful but Vader has superior command of the force because he has comparable power, much more experience and much more mastery.
Again, based on what? Based on what showings? You're going to have to prove that he has more technical skill and better augmentation power than pre suit Anakin/Vader, which he doesn't given that he's not as powerful in the force as his pre suit self.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

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on November 16th 2020, 12:54 pm
Comes down to Dooku and Vader. Dooku wins in sabers unless he pisses Vader off by mentioning Padme (which probably won't make too much of a difference). Force can go either way. Maul is just getting used as a projectile when it comes down to the Force.
SnowxElf
SnowxElf

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on November 16th 2020, 1:15 pm
Dooku.

There are so many contradicting sources on suited-Vader's placement. Dooku has the best feats of everyone here.
Supreme Leader
Supreme Leader

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on November 16th 2020, 1:37 pm
I don't deny that Anakin is superior to Dooku. Yeah, he is superior to Dooku but I don't think he could've done the same against Dooku if he didn't have these advantages. I didn't say that training increases your force power. I meant that training increases your skill, experience and mastery and it makes you more formidable, not mention that Vader grew stronger over time. As for Lucas' quote, it is referring to power, not skill or mastery. Vader has superior command of the force because he has comparable power, much more experience and much more mastery than Anakin.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

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on November 16th 2020, 2:18 pm
Vader is sub Jinn and TPM per Insider. Dooku snaps his fingers and Vader turns to dust. SoD Maul then presses Dooku for a while but eventually falls as well
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