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Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 6:52 am
List characters who you think can beat Valkorion, if any at all

And most importantly, why you think so
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 7:28 am
You may expect one of The Ones to destroy his VOICE but he will cheat death and come back.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 7:38 am
Anyone above Darth Bane is enough
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 7:40 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:Anyone above Darth Bane is enough

Who can beat Valkorion? 2864379292 

You are quite a magician comedian.
Seturna
Seturna

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 7:41 am
Aayla secura could probably beat him
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 7:52 am
@Seturna wrote:Aayla secura could probably beat him

Aayla have become more powerful than any Jedi, even you. Ayala unleash Force Lightning from her fingertips...
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 8:34 am
I'm going to go off the top 15 rules and exclude characters like The Ones, etc. And doing that, I'd probably say only Prime Luke can beat him.


Last edited by NotAA3 on June 13th 2020, 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 8:50 am
Sidious.
Luke.
Nyax if he gets lucky.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 9:02 am
Plagueis and anyone above him. Comparatively powerful, more masterful, more skilled.

_________________
Who can beat Valkorion? Sheev_sig_3
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level One
Level One

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 9:55 am
sheev,FOTJ luke,mortakin,possibly anyone above plagueis,lord nyax,unuthul and the force entitities in his entirety


Last edited by The lord of hunger on June 18th 2020, 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 10:51 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Plagueis isn't beating Valkorion in any way unless it comes down to sabers, and even then I'm not sure Valk is a bad H2H or CQC combatant.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 11:04 am
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
Anybody below Palpatine (Dark Empire) have ZERO shot whatsoever, provided that he even gets a shot. Young Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa Solo nigh-severed his connection to the Force; Valkorion could do better and then some. He was just 10 years old when he cut off one of the strongest Lords from the Force with barely an effort - said Lord had sufficient power to create a Sith Holocron (even Darth Bane struggled immensely to create one and not without repeat failure). Centuries later, Valkorion would demonstrate this power once again on Ziost but in the form of Force Drain, consuming the entire world with it.

The Ones are the only Force-users who have a decent shot. And this is assuming that the opponent does not get wrecked in turn. And then there is always the possibility that Valkorion will cheat death and return (you may never know in his case). Something BIG is expected to happen in an upcoming expansion set of SWTOR even though Valkorion is officially vanquished through deus ex machina.

Some may not want to admit this but Valkorion have shown greater power than any character at any point in time in LEGENDS in all fairness. He is a LEGIT contender for recognition as the most powerful Force-user in LEGENDS. And no BioWare and Mr. Leland Chee do not contradict each other in this matter; The Father's powers were in decline many centuries before The Clone Wars (this is true for him in both LEGENDS and CANON).

Bedlam Spirits are ABOVE ALL however - they have no peer whatsoever.


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on June 13th 2020, 11:40 am; edited 3 times in total
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 11:31 am
[size=37]The Ones are the only Force-users who have a decent shot.[/size]



The Son, Daughter and Father > Abeloth, who's stated to be far more powerful than Luke. "A decent shot" is a gross understatement.


And then there is always the possibility that Valkorion will cheat death and return (you may never know in his case). Something BIG is expected to happen in an upcoming expansion set of SWTOR even though Valkorion is officially vanquished through deus ex machina.

If you followed SWTOR as extensively as you make out, you’d know Valk isn’t returning. It’s been confirmed around four times by this point. What is going to happen is Valkorion created a ritual that will unleash a curse that can form a dark side entity that is not Valkorion.


[size=40]Some may not want to admit this [/size]but[size=40] Valkorion have shown greater power than any character at any point in time in LEGENDS [/size][size=34]in all fairness[/size][size=40].[/size]

No. Just no. Sheev's storm feat is beyond anything Valkorion has ever done save for Ziost and Nathema (both of which aren't combat applicable). Luke arguably has better showings as well.


[size=40]He is a LEGIT contender for recognition as [/size]the[size=40] most powerful Force-user in LEGENDS[/size]

Contender, yes. Clear choice, no.


[size=37]The Father's powers were in decline many centuries before The Clone Wars (this is true for him in both LEGENDS and CANON).[/size]

Not sure what your point is here. The Mortis episodes were set in 20 BBY. Valkorion died around 3600 BBY[size=40]. [/size]



[size=40]Bedlam Spirits are ABOVE ALL however - they have no peer whatsoever.[/size]

I'm no expert on the Celestials, but iirc both the Ones and the Celestials were stated to be above the Bedlam Spirits.


Last edited by BoD on June 13th 2020, 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total
Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 11:40 am
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:You may expect one of The Ones to destroy his VOICE but he will cheat death and come back.

I think the thread is about who would beat Valkorion in a fight and not about who would finish him completely. So I don't think the 'cheat death and come back' part matters for the sake of the forum.

Also Plagueis isn't beating Valkorion whatsoever.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 12:21 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
BoD wrote:
The Son, Daughter and Father > Abeloth, who's stated to be far more powerful than Luke. "A decent shot" is a gross understatement.

No. Just no. Sheev's storm feat is beyond anything Valkorion has ever done save for Ziost and Nathema (both of which aren't combat applicable). Luke arguably has better showings as well.

Contender, yes. Clear choice, no.
Not sure what your point is here. The Mortis episodes were set in 20 BBY. Valkorion died around 3600 BBY[size=40]. [/size]

I'm no expert on the Celestials, but iirc both the Ones and the Celestials were stated to be above the Bedlam Spirits.

1. Abeloth could be much stronger than Luke Skywalker and she was responsible for driving The Ones to Mortis in the first place (LEGENDS continuity). When she was let loose from her prison in the era of Luke, a limited number of PROTAGONISTS observed her moves, understood her powers, banded together, and defeat her thoroughly (Luke and Darth Krayt in particular). Luke was able to defeat one of her avatars inside a cave all by himself, but to his dismay, Abeloth brought another one to subjugate him soon after (this is why Luke was utterly SPOOKED By her). The Ones are not as strong as scores of people are led to believe by mere statements. The Ones are planetary TIER in terms of affecting the external environment at most. No Force-user in Star Wars is capable of ruining the entire galaxy in true sense - this is a METAPHOR. WE have seen there powers firsthand on Mortis - have WE not? Why make a mountain out of a molehill?

Anakin Skywalker humbled both The Son and The Daugher on Mortis by tapping into the power of the same realm in which they were residing; he was capable of replacing The Father and keep both under check and he wasn't even at his zenith at this point.

2. This is SUBJECTIVE assessment on your part. Force Storm (Wormhole) can wreck a planet but so can Force Drain; both represent the pinnacle of dark side abilities, and both are extremely difficult to employ in offensive capacity, mind you. Force Drain is one of the most difficult powers to employ in offensive capacity and that too on planetary scale. It takes thousands of natural Force-users to bind together, or a superweapon, to consume a world otherwise. However, Tenebrae pulled this off with own raw power on Ziost (he was FAR MORE powerful and masterful in the ways of the Force at this stage compared to his days as of NATHEMA), and Darth Nihilus managed by virtue of his special condition in another time but many years before the events of Ziost.

Force Storm (Wormhole) can be created by a lone Force-user given sufficient aptitude and knowledge of the technique; some of the Palpatine's Sorcerers stationed on Byss were capable in THEORY. Although knowledge and understanding of this application wasn't widespread throughout HISTORY and practice was not encouraged either; real challenge was not in creating one but in CONTROLLING one (this expression of power was extremely volatile by its very nature and could get out of hand if the CONTROL was lost over one).

Do you know that Force Storm (Wormhole) materialized naturally as well? This is noted in one source. Study of this phenomenon might be important to understand how they function and devise a technique to create one. Although Force Maelstrom application could be EXTRAPOLATED into one.

There is another dark side ability which is arguably the most difficult to pull off in personal capacity but Valkorion managed it easily - creating VOICES in other living beings. This dark side ability require HEROIC level of command across CONTROL, SENSE and ALTER spectrum to pull off in living beings and RISK FACTOR was too great. No matter how strong, one's conscious could collapse from the stresses involved. This is why CLONES were a much safer bet for the needful.

3. Tenebrae's demonstration of powers on ZIOST are all combat-applicable; he was heavily involved in COMBAT on Ziost, and openly confronting the Jedi and Sith in the process. They could not defeat him on Ziost because of his formless nature and his ability to MASK his presence to the point that even a dedicated group of Sith (Seers) were not able to get a FIX on him in this form. Since BioWare have gone out of its way to promote him as the most powerful Force-user ever, it was only a matter of time that BioWare would give him something significant in terms of abilities to substantiate his hype. You may say that Tenebrae was at his true game and unhinged on Ziost.

Some people are UNABLE TO DIGEST THAT REALITY due to personal biases - nothing more. If that was Palpatine, or Luke, or Abeloth - many would be jumping up and down in joy and be ALL OVER the platforms raving about how strong either is. Come on, now.

Why be biased for select characters? Respect them all for their demonstrated capabilities. This is what I do. In fact, Yoda and Palpatine are among my favorites. I am drawn to strong characters in personal capacity because they continue to strive for desired ends and succeed to large extent. Being successful is the point all along and motivation.


4. Fair enough. I do not believe in absolutes in personal capacity.

5. The Father is IMPLIED to be loosing his powers centuries before The Clone Wars. The distress signal which was picked up by Anakin Skywalker was over 2000 years old. Given how long The Father had lived, WE do not know when he was at his peak.

6. Bedlam Spirits are stated to be OMNIPOTENT and there powers are unspeakably vast. These are not Force-users to be exact but I am not sure. Nobody can compete with OMNIPOTENCE, come on. Even The Father was dying.

@Darth Nihilus wrote:
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:You may expect one of The Ones to destroy his VOICE but he will cheat death and come back.

I think the thread is about who would beat Valkorion in a fight and not about who would finish him completely. So I don't think the 'cheat death and come back' part matters for the sake of the forum.

Also Plagueis isn't beating Valkorion whatsoever.

Fair enough, friend.


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on June 13th 2020, 4:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 1:13 pm
1. Abeloth could be much stronger than Luke Skywalker and she was responsible for driving The Ones to Mortis in the first place (LEGENDS continuity).

Not exactly. The Father took them from the planet after he saw what Abeloth had become, not because she was more powerful than any of them.



The Ones are not as strong as scores of people are led to believe by mere statements. The Ones are planetary TIER in terms of affecting the external environment at most

They're literally stated to be capable of tearing the fabric of reality and are outright stated to be beyond anyone else in Canon or Legends. This is corroborated by StarWars.com:


and were drawn into a paradise realm inhabited by unspeakably powerful Force-wielders. 

-


These god-like beings were locked in an eternal struggle for dominance, which made Mortis the fulcrum of the entire galaxy and the Force



-


The Son was an embodiment of the dark side of the Force who dwelled on Mortis during the Clone Wars



-


In the mysterious realm of Mortis there exists a trio of beings able to wield the Force in ways no known mortals of the galaxy can



They're confirmed to be beyond anyone else in the mythos.



No Force-user in Star Wars is capable of ruining the entire galaxy in true sense - this is a METAPHOR. 

The Ones are literal embodiments of the Force. They're capable of feats no one else is, that includes tearing the fabric of reality. You have no basis for saying it's a metaphor beyond conjecture and putting words in caps (which is a lot less effective than you think it is, btw).



Anakin Skywalker humbled both The Son and The Daugher on Mortis by tapping into the power of the same realm in which they were residing; he was capable of replacing The Father in keep both under check and he wasn't even at his zenith at this point.

Uh, what? Anakin had unlocked his full potential by tapping into the literal fulcrum of the galaxy:

These god-like beings were locked in an eternal struggle for dominance, which made Mortis the fulcrum of the entire galaxy and the Force


-


"What is this place?"
"Unlike any other. A conduit through which the entire Force of the universe flows."

This is literally Anakin at his full potential. He has never replicated anything even remotely approaching this level. 

I can't be asked to highlight and respond to the rest bit by bit so:

Your claim that others can replicate Sheev's feat is erroneous.


Sidious' Force Storms are not the conventional ones we normally see. Valkorion's lightning against Arcann was a Force Storm, as was Plagueis' in the clearing. Sidious' power and control/mastery of the ability is so great that he can literally rip holes in the fabric of reality through its sheer destructive power, transport beings across time and space, and wipe out entire fleets. No one in Legends has replicated anything even remotely on this level (note that this does not mean that Sidious is untouchable, as this is only one manifestation of power). 



3. Tenebrae's demonstration of powers on ZIOST are all combat-applicable; he was heavily involved in COMBAT on Ziost, and openly confronting the Jedi and Sith in the process. They could not defeat him on Ziost because of his formless nature and the ability to MASK his presence to the point that even a dedicated group of Sith (Seers) were not able to get a FIX on him in this form. Some people are UNABLE TO DIGEST THIS REALITY due to personal biases - nothing more. If this was Palpatine, or Luke, or Abeloth - many would be jumping up and down in joy and be ALL OVER the platforms raving about how strong either is. Who can beat Valkorion? 3037424776

That's not remotely accurate. I was talking about his draining of the planet, not his combat showings (which even here are lackluster). His best combat feats are stomping Lana (who at this point is low to mid Jedi master level) and briefly fighting SoR HoT and not being stomped while possessing Master Surro. Great TP feats, that much is certain. Great combat feats such as in blade to blade combat or against meaningful opponents? No. 



5. The Father is IMPLIED to be loosing his powers centuries before The Clone Wars. The distress signal which was picked up by Anakin Skywalker was over 2000 years old. Given how long The Father had lived, WE do not know when he was at his peak.

So you concede that you can't quantify either the rate nor the decline of his powers and that this point is useless. Also, that distress signal would still peg it as 2020 BBY, which still leaves around 1,600 years to consider, since even 20 BBY Father could briefly compete with the Son. 



6. Bedlam Spirits are stated to be OMNIPOTENT and there powers are unspeakably vast

Mate, nearly every powerful Force user and their nan is said to be omnipotent or unspeakably powerful at some point. Revan has been described as the truest reflection of the Force, Sidious has been described as a black hole and beyond power as of ROTS (long before his substantial growth), Mace has been described as passively radiating power that makes characters quake, Vitiate has been described as the Dark Side incarnate, Yoda has been described as the embodiment of the Light Side, etc. You're taking a writing technique hyper-literally, which is a dangerous route to go down.

I'm honestly not even sure what you're trying to argue here.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 2:46 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
BoD wrote:Not exactly. The Father took them from the planet after he saw what Abeloth had become, not because she was more powerful than any of them.

They're literally stated to be capable of tearing the fabric of reality and are outright stated to be beyond anyone else in Canon or Legends. This is corroborated by StarWars.com:

and were drawn into a paradise realm inhabited by unspeakably powerful Force-wielders. 

-

These god-like beings were locked in an eternal struggle for dominance, which made Mortis the fulcrum of the entire galaxy and the Force

-

The Son was an embodiment of the dark side of the Force who dwelled on Mortis during the Clone Wars

-

In the mysterious realm of Mortis there exists a trio of beings able to wield the Force in ways no known mortals of the galaxy can

They're confirmed to be beyond anyone else in the mythos.


The Ones are literal embodiments of the Force. They're capable of feats no one else is, that includes tearing the fabric of reality. You have no basis for saying it's a metaphor beyond conjecture and putting words in caps (which is a lot less effective than you think it is, btw).

Uh, what? Anakin had unlocked his full potential by tapping into the literal fulcrum of the galaxy:

These god-like beings were locked in an eternal struggle for dominance, which made Mortis the fulcrum of the entire galaxy and the Force

-

"What is this place?"
"Unlike any other. A conduit through which the entire Force of the universe flows."

This is literally Anakin at his full potential. He has never replicated anything even remotely approaching this level. 

I can't be asked to highlight and respond to the rest bit by bit so:

Your claim that others can replicate Sheev's feat is erroneous.

Sidious' Force Storms are not the conventional ones we normally see. Valkorion's lightning against Arcann was a Force Storm, as was Plagueis' in the clearing. Sidious' power and control/mastery of the ability is so great that he can literally rip holes in the fabric of reality through its sheer destructive power, transport beings across time and space, and wipe out entire fleets. No one in Legends has replicated anything even remotely on this level (note that this does not mean that Sidious is untouchable, as this is only one manifestation of power). 

That's not remotely accurate. I was talking about his draining of the planet, not his combat showings (which even here are lackluster). His best combat feats are stomping Lana (who at this point is low to mid Jedi master level) and briefly fighting SoR HoT and not being stomped while possessing Master Surro. Great TP feats, that much is certain. Great combat feats such as in blade to blade combat or against meaningful opponents? No. 

So you concede that you can't quantify either the rate nor the decline of his powers and that this point is useless. Also, that distress signal would still peg it as 2020 BBY, which still leaves around 1,600 years to consider, since even 20 BBY Father could briefly compete with the Son. 

Mate, nearly every powerful Force user and their nan is said to be omnipotent or unspeakably powerful at some point. Revan has been described as the truest reflection of the Force, Sidious has been described as a black hole and beyond power as of ROTS (long before his substantial growth), Mace has been described as passively radiating power that makes characters quake, Vitiate has been described as the Dark Side incarnate, Yoda has been described as the embodiment of the Light Side, etc. You're taking a writing technique hyper-literally, which is a dangerous route to go down.

I'm honestly not even sure what you're trying to argue here.

1. Abeloth actually forced The Father to create the realm of Mortis and move in there along with his children, away from the affairs of the galaxy at large [for like ever]. This revelation absolutely contradicts that of another source which suggest that The Father did so out of his worries that his Children will manage to ruin the galaxy with their powers.

I have one question for you: Why The Ones were not able to utterly crush Abeloth if they were so powerful in the ways of the Force as you seem to imply? Why imprison her only?

Let me tell you why. She had bathed in the Pool of Knowledge FIRST and had drank from The Font of Power NEXT to achieve IMMORTALITY, and she became so powerful consequently that even The Father was unable to get rid of her in person - he wouldn't mind getting rid of her if he could because she was no longer the woman he had come to admire and respect when she was normal and natural. The Son and The Daughter reached out to Killiks on Aldeeran and enlisted their help to imprison her while they both fought Abeloth to keep her at bay. There is no other explanation. Please read or consider REVISITING the novel (Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse) to understand the bigger picture about Abeloth and her past.

Please NOTE that I assume LEGENDS continuity by DEFAULT when I am discussing and comparing characters limited to LEGENDS continuity with characters who are a part of both continuities. I do not intermingle CANON with LEGENDS in my assessment - realities of BOTH are different to an extent.

--- --- ---

2. Those statements are applicable to Valkorion as well, and I am completely aware of them and more. What is the point of posting them here, my friend? Ironically, you posit the same question to me in the end of your response.

These statements collectively establish that The Ones are 'among' the VERY BEST of the mythos (TOP TIER Force-users by any measure which I absolutely admit and always have; The Son is one of my favorites actually). They do not have a peer among the known mortals of the galaxy, or so it is stated (Anakin Skywalker anyone?). My addition to the argument is that select few Force-users such as Abeloth and Valkorion are/were not mortals either; these two also qualify for TOP TIER positioning. Perhaps there were more because being remarkably powerful in the ways of the Force is a GIFT not limited to Jedi and Sith by large. The LORE is ever-expanding.

Soa is one such example - possibly the most powerful Rakatan Force-user to have ever existed. His powers were stated to be of such magnitude that they would make ongoing galactic affairs almost irrelevant if allowed to expand unchecked. He could spring MIND TRAPS with sheer force of will for instance.

Below is a demonstration of a MIND TRAP:



The ancient Rakata built mind traps as the ultimate prison. These strange devices leave the victim’s body intact, but draw the psyche into an otherworldly “white room”–a virtual environment created by the mind trap’s power. While inside the white room, the victim does not hunger or age, and his thoughts are not impaired–but he can have no contact with the outside world until another being accesses the device. It is entirely possible for the victim’s body to die and the victim’s psyche to suffer immortality inside a white, featureless void. Certain technologies allow a mind trap’s victims to holographically project into the real world, though whether the Rakata intended this is a mystery. During the height of the Infinite Empire, entrapment was reserved as a punishment for Rakata only. At other periods, however, other dangerous beings have been placed within the devices.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "Mind Trap.")

---

I do believe and assert that The Father would be the most powerful Force-user [ever] in his prime years. He might be something more than being a planetary-TIER in the aspect of AFFECTING the external environment in one go in his prime years. WE see him in action in his years of decline unfortunately.

--- --- ---

3. You may say that that was Anakin Skywalker at his full potential but more likely explanation is that he was able to tap into the power of Mortis realm to achieve the needful. After all, Mortis was said to be a conduit through which the entire Force of the universe flows.

Given Anakin's remarkable connection to the Force, he was able to do that.

Revan is also stated to have had a remarkable connection to the Force, and perhaps he could too; who the hell knows. There were reports of bringing Revan into the story of The Ones in certain capacity but this part was SHELVED eventually.

EXTRAORDINARY NEXUSES can GRANT unprecedented power to anybody able.

--- --- ---

4. I fully understand WHAT a Force Storm (Wormhole) is and that it is different from a Force Storm created through Force Lightning.

Although; Valkorion was certainly capable of destroying an entire fleet of big starships with Force Lightning by EXTRAPOLATING it into a Force Storm of its own and directing his power towards the starships themselves. Check my responses in the following thread for meaningful information in relation: https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t3421p25-valkorion-vs-irek-ismaren-amped

Secondly; Force Maelstrom application which is created through combined channeling of several powers including Telekinesis and Force Lightning with sheer force of will - can be EXPANDED into a Force Storm (Wormhole) as per Palpatine:

Who can beat Valkorion? Book-of-Anger-Palpatine

Valkorion did create something to similar effect on YAVIN 4 while teleporting to ZIOST in the process:

"Impossible... the ritual haven't even begun..."

From (Revan, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan)

Who can beat Valkorion? 7412972-1991330868-SWTOR
Who can beat Valkorion? 7412974-8675787917-SWTOR
Who can beat Valkorion? 7412976-4058797604-SWTOR
Who can beat Valkorion? 7412979-2030964685-SWTOR
Who can beat Valkorion? 7412982-5888973797-SWTOR

"We suffered many casualties upon the Emperor's return..."

From (Darth Marr, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan)

Although, not officially confirmed; that is not mere Teleportation. Even spiritual teleportation is not that volatile and dangerous; not even close. Teleportation is a peaceful application.

Notice the statements of Revan and Darth Marr in relation - they are self-explanatory.

And keep in mind that that was Valkorion much below his BASE LEVEL of strength even as of The Sith Emperor.

---

I shall repeat my point # 2 to explain my perspective:

"This is SUBJECTIVE assessment on your part. Force Storm (Wormhole) can wreck a planet but so can Force Drain; both represent the pinnacle of dark side abilities, and both are extremely difficult to employ in offensive capacity, mind you. Force Drain is one of the most difficult powers to employ in offensive capacity and that too on planetary scale. It takes thousands of natural Force-users to bind together, or a superweapon, to consume a world otherwise. However, Tenebrae pulled this off with own raw power on Ziost (he was FAR MORE powerful and masterful in the ways of the Force at this stage compared to his days as of NATHEMA), and Darth Nihilus managed by virtue of his special condition in another time but many years before the events of Ziost.

Force Storm (Wormhole) can be created by a lone Force-user given sufficient aptitude and knowledge of the technique; some of the Palpatine's Sorcerers stationed on Byss were capable in THEORY. Although knowledge and understanding of this application wasn't widespread throughout HISTORY and practice was not encouraged either; real challenge was not in creating one but in CONTROLLING one (this expression of power was extremely volatile by its very nature and could get out of hand if the CONTROL was lost over one).

Do you know that Force Storm (Wormhole) materialized naturally as well? This is noted in one source. Study of this phenomenon might be important to understand how they function and devise a technique to create one. Although Force Maelstrom application could be EXTRAPOLATED into one.

There is another dark side ability which is arguably the most difficult to pull off in personal capacity but Valkorion managed it easily - creating VOICES in other living beings. This dark side ability require HEROIC level of command across CONTROL, SENSE and ALTER spectrum to pull off in living beings and RISK FACTOR was too great. No matter how strong, one's conscious could collapse from the stresses involved. This is why CLONES were a much safer bet for the needful."


Emphasis mine. Argument for SUPERIORITY of Palpatine over Valkorion on the basis of Force Storm (Wormhole) application alone is insufficient. There are different ways to gauge strength of each character and Valkorion does not fall short in comparison. Valkorion rather WRECKED a massive planet with his powers but Palpatine never managed to.

--- --- ---

5. WAIT WHAT? Those are powers of Jedi Master Surro actually. She was/is one of the most powerful Jedi of the era and particularly famous for her exploits on Balmora. Valkorion could only channel so much power through her while preoccupied with so much else on the planet - she was not his VOICE but a plot device to make the story interesting. More so, she was representative of that even the strongest of Jedi Masters were vulnerable on Ziost.

Valkorion's powers were invested in dominating the minds of countless living beings on ZIOST to do his bidding (i.e. killing each other) so that he would feed on resultant deaths to continue to grow stronger by the minute (a cycle of Telepathy and Drain Life Essence implied).

Valkorion demonstrates his own ACTUALIZED POWER [after] the PROTAGONISTS find a way to disrupt his telepathic hold over his subjects (i.e. powerful electrostatic weapons) and pave way for evacuations from the planet in the process. However, before he channel much of his raw power into a single attack (Force Drain implied), he warns the chief protagonist to get out of the planet. Fearing that the worst is yet to come, the chief protagonist gets the memo and exit from ZIOST along with his allies.

WE see Valkorion consume the entire world NEXT. This is through his own raw power, and emerge stronger than ever before from the act and experience of it:

Meanwhile, an older threat still looms: the former SITH EMPEROR, revitalized after annihilating all life on the planet Ziost, has similarly vanished without a trace.

From (Epilogue, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Fallen Empire, Chapter 1)

+

"It was a blur. We tried to evacuate as many as we could. Considering so much was out of control, I'd say we did alright...

...but Vitiate is stronger now. Sith Intelligence is in complete disarray. It's all coming apart."
- Lord Lana Beniko

+

"Especially after Ziost, putting an end to Vitiate's threat seems like an impossible task. I don't believe it truly is impossible. Even if it is were, we have to try." - Lord Lana Beniko

+

With each rebirth, he grew stronger. His machinations became grander. The pain and suffering he unleashed became greater. Some believed his ultimate goal was conquest: the complete subjugation of every world, known and unknown. Others believed he sought annihilation: the consumption of every living being in the galaxy, until he alone remained.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne: Codex Entry titled "The Fall of Valkorion.")

Recommended blog: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/devastation-of-ziost-updated-and-expanded-in-2020-/105050/

--- --- ---

5. I do not recall any single Force-user to be EXPLICITLY stated to be OMNIPOTENT in any source. Any other kind of hype? YES. But not exactly omnipotence to be precise.

Valkorion is stated to have become OMNIPOTENT if his SUPER-RITUAL directed towards consuming the entire galaxy had succeeded but his effort was THWARTED by the combined efforts of Hero of Tython, Barsen'thor, and the former Emperor's Wrath Lord Scourge among others.

Although, the new Emperor's Wrath, received of experienced a VISION of a potential-future in which Valkorion had succeeded in consuming the entire galaxy - during the course of events of SHADOW OF REVAN. There is an actual CUT-SCENE of this potential-future in the game. This suggest that Valkorion could pull it off under the right set-of-circumstances, but he CHANGED his mind after consuming ZIOST.

Valkorion actually informed The Outlander that he finds the galaxy filled with LIFE more interesting than rebooting the whole thing. That he no longer needs crude vessels such as CHILDREN, HANDS and VOICES to function and influence the galaxy at large. One of the major contributors to SWTOR project Mr. Hall Hood also confirmed as much independently.

--- --- ---

I respect your POV in person, but please understand that THIS THEME is of highly contentious nature. There is no ABSOLUTE answer in this matter.

Nevertheless, Valkorion is vastly underestimated by some. These people have little idea of scale and grasp of his powers relative to others which is in part due to the fact that not many are invested in the SWTOR project and some do not even like it to begin with.


Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on June 14th 2020, 4:02 am; edited 3 times in total
DarthAnt66
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Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 13th 2020, 4:57 pm
Maybe Luke, Palpatine, or Ismaren. Only comfortable saying Luke for a majority. And everyone above Luke.
Master Azronger
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Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 14th 2020, 12:54 am
@Jaggarath Why is the cut-off point arbitrarily at Luke? What makes him more qualified than Sheev or anyone else?

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Who can beat Valkorion? Sheev_sig_3
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 14th 2020, 1:46 am
I would say Prime Luke and Ismaren are the only ones with the potential to defeat Valkorion for a majority. Personally I think Ismaren might be too retarded, but he definitely has the power.
DarthAnt66
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Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 14th 2020, 2:02 am
Azronger wrote:@Jaggarath Why is the cut-off point arbitrarily at Luke? What makes him more qualified than Sheev or anyone else?

Luke's the most proven to handle Valkorion's offense (UnuShan, Abeloth) and far and away the best CQC combatant.
SnowxElf
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Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 16th 2020, 12:26 am
Azronger wrote:Plagueis and anyone above him. Comparatively powerful, more masterful, more skilled.
Who can beat Valkorion? 1289255181
Sjuttiosju
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Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 16th 2020, 7:43 am
Luke, Nyax and Sidious. Anyone else likely dies.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 16th 2020, 4:55 pm
People who can beat Valk could be anyone who can deflect his force lightning or drain really that's all he can really do hes a relatively crappy duelist id argue that a fair bit of people who are less powerful than him could beat him 

for sith some notable people would be
sidious 
krayt
exar kun
bane 
plagueis
vader
caedus 

for jedi id say

luke 
yoda
mace
kyp
saba
kyle
jaina
Seturna
Seturna

Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

on June 16th 2020, 5:19 pm
@Vaelias wrote:People who can beat Valk could be anyone who can deflect his force lightning or drain really that's all he can really do hes a relatively crappy duelist id argue that a fair bit of people who are less powerful than him could beat him 

for sith some notable people would be
sidious 
krayt
exar kun
bane 
plagueis
vader
caedus 

for jedi id say

luke 
yoda
mace
kyp
saba
kyle
jaina
Im curious on how you can have Bane beat Valkorion?
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Who can beat Valkorion? Empty Re: Who can beat Valkorion?

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