Who can beat Valkorion?

HellfireUnit wrote:Anyone above Darth Bane is enough

Seturna wrote:Aayla secura could probably beat him

[size=37]The Ones are the only Force-users who have a decent shot.[/size]

And then there is always the possibility that Valkorion will cheat death and return (you may never know in his case). Something BIG is expected to happen in an upcoming expansion set of SWTOR even though Valkorion is officially vanquished through deus ex machina.

[size=40]Some may not want to admit this [/size]but[size=40] Valkorion have shown greater power than any character at any point in time in LEGENDS [/size][size=34]in all fairness[/size][size=40].[/size]

[size=40]He is a LEGIT contender for recognition as [/size]the[size=40] most powerful Force-user in LEGENDS[/size]

[size=37]The Father's powers were in decline many centuries before The Clone Wars (this is true for him in both LEGENDS and CANON).[/size]

[size=40]Bedlam Spirits are ABOVE ALL however - they have no peer whatsoever.[/size]

S_W_LeGenD wrote:You may expect one of The Ones to destroy his VOICE but he will cheat death and come back.

BoD wrote:
The Son, Daughter and Father > Abeloth, who's stated to be far more powerful than Luke. "A decent shot" is a gross understatement.

No. Just no. Sheev's storm feat is beyond anything Valkorion has ever done save for Ziost and Nathema (both of which aren't combat applicable). Luke arguably has better showings as well.

Contender, yes. Clear choice, no.
Not sure what your point is here. The Mortis episodes were set in 20 BBY. Valkorion died around 3600 BBY[size=40]. [/size]

I'm no expert on the Celestials, but iirc both the Ones and the Celestials were stated to be above the Bedlam Spirits.

Darth Nihilus wrote:

S_W_LeGenD wrote:You may expect one of The Ones to destroy his VOICE but he will cheat death and come back.

I think the thread is about who would beat Valkorion in a fight and not about who would finish him completely. So I don't think the 'cheat death and come back' part matters for the sake of the forum.

Also Plagueis isn't beating Valkorion whatsoever.

1. Abeloth could be much stronger than Luke Skywalker and she was responsible for driving The Ones to Mortis in the first place (LEGENDS continuity).

The Ones are not as strong as scores of people are led to believe by mere statements. The Ones are planetary TIER in terms of affecting the external environment at most. 

No Force-user in Star Wars is capable of ruining the entire galaxy in true sense - this is a METAPHOR. 

Anakin Skywalker humbled both The Son and The Daugher on Mortis by tapping into the power of the same realm in which they were residing; he was capable of replacing The Father in keep both under check and he wasn't even at his zenith at this point.

3. Tenebrae's demonstration of powers on ZIOST are all combat-applicable; he was heavily involved in COMBAT on Ziost, and openly confronting the Jedi and Sith in the process. They could not defeat him on Ziost because of his formless nature and the ability to MASK his presence to the point that even a dedicated group of Sith (Seers) were not able to get a FIX on him in this form. Some people are UNABLE TO DIGEST THIS REALITY due to personal biases - nothing more. If this was Palpatine, or Luke, or Abeloth - many would be jumping up and down in joy and be ALL OVER the platforms raving about how strong either is. 

5. The Father is IMPLIED to be loosing his powers centuries before The Clone Wars. The distress signal which was picked up by Anakin Skywalker was over 2000 years old. Given how long The Father had lived, WE do not know when he was at his peak.

6. Bedlam Spirits are stated to be OMNIPOTENT and there powers are unspeakably vast

BoD wrote:Not exactly. The Father took them from the planet after he saw what Abeloth had become, not because she was more powerful than any of them.

They're literally stated to be capable of tearing the fabric of reality and are outright stated to be beyond anyone else in Canon or Legends. This is corroborated by StarWars.com:

and were drawn into a paradise realm inhabited by unspeakably powerful Force-wielders. 

-

These god-like beings were locked in an eternal struggle for dominance, which made Mortis the fulcrum of the entire galaxy and the Force

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The Son was an embodiment of the dark side of the Force who dwelled on Mortis during the Clone Wars

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In the mysterious realm of Mortis there exists a trio of beings able to wield the Force in ways no known mortals of the galaxy can

They're confirmed to be beyond anyone else in the mythos.


The Ones are literal embodiments of the Force. They're capable of feats no one else is, that includes tearing the fabric of reality. You have no basis for saying it's a metaphor beyond conjecture and putting words in caps (which is a lot less effective than you think it is, btw).

Uh, what? Anakin had unlocked his full potential by tapping into the literal fulcrum of the galaxy:

These god-like beings were locked in an eternal struggle for dominance, which made Mortis the fulcrum of the entire galaxy and the Force

-

"What is this place?"
"Unlike any other. A conduit through which the entire Force of the universe flows."

This is literally Anakin at his full potential. He has never replicated anything even remotely approaching this level. 

I can't be asked to highlight and respond to the rest bit by bit so:

Your claim that others can replicate Sheev's feat is erroneous.

Sidious' Force Storms are not the conventional ones we normally see. Valkorion's lightning against Arcann was a Force Storm, as was Plagueis' in the clearing. Sidious' power and control/mastery of the ability is so great that he can literally rip holes in the fabric of reality through its sheer destructive power, transport beings across time and space, and wipe out entire fleets. No one in Legends has replicated anything even remotely on this level (note that this does not mean that Sidious is untouchable, as this is only one manifestation of power). 

That's not remotely accurate. I was talking about his draining of the planet, not his combat showings (which even here are lackluster). His best combat feats are stomping Lana (who at this point is low to mid Jedi master level) and briefly fighting SoR HoT and not being stomped while possessing Master Surro. Great TP feats, that much is certain. Great combat feats such as in blade to blade combat or against meaningful opponents? No. 

So you concede that you can't quantify either the rate nor the decline of his powers and that this point is useless. Also, that distress signal would still peg it as 2020 BBY, which still leaves around 1,600 years to consider, since even 20 BBY Father could briefly compete with the Son. 

Mate, nearly every powerful Force user and their nan is said to be omnipotent or unspeakably powerful at some point. Revan has been described as the truest reflection of the Force, Sidious has been described as a black hole and beyond power as of ROTS (long before his substantial growth), Mace has been described as passively radiating power that makes characters quake, Vitiate has been described as the Dark Side incarnate, Yoda has been described as the embodiment of the Light Side, etc. You're taking a writing technique hyper-literally, which is a dangerous route to go down.

I'm honestly not even sure what you're trying to argue here.

The ancient Rakata built mind traps as the ultimate prison. These strange devices leave the victim’s body intact, but draw the psyche into an otherworldly “white room”–a virtual environment created by the mind trap’s power. While inside the white room, the victim does not hunger or age, and his thoughts are not impaired–but he can have no contact with the outside world until another being accesses the device. It is entirely possible for the victim’s body to die and the victim’s psyche to suffer immortality inside a white, featureless void. Certain technologies allow a mind trap’s victims to holographically project into the real world, though whether the Rakata intended this is a mystery. During the height of the Infinite Empire, entrapment was reserved as a punishment for Rakata only. At other periods, however, other dangerous beings have been placed within the devices.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "Mind Trap.")

"Impossible... the ritual haven't even begun..."

From (Revan, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan)

"We suffered many casualties upon the Emperor's return..."

From (Darth Marr, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Shadow of Revan)

Meanwhile, an older threat still looms: the former SITH EMPEROR, revitalized after annihilating all life on the planet Ziost, has similarly vanished without a trace.

From (Epilogue, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Fallen Empire, Chapter 1)

"It was a blur. We tried to evacuate as many as we could. Considering so much was out of control, I'd say we did alright...

...but Vitiate is stronger now. Sith Intelligence is in complete disarray. It's all coming apart." - Lord Lana Beniko

"Especially after Ziost, putting an end to Vitiate's threat seems like an impossible task. I don't believe it truly is impossible. Even if it is were, we have to try." - Lord Lana Beniko

With each rebirth, he grew stronger. His machinations became grander. The pain and suffering he unleashed became greater. Some believed his ultimate goal was conquest: the complete subjugation of every world, known and unknown. Others believed he sought annihilation: the consumption of every living being in the galaxy, until he alone remained.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne: Codex Entry titled "The Fall of Valkorion.")

Azronger wrote:@Jaggarath Why is the cut-off point arbitrarily at Luke? What makes him more qualified than Sheev or anyone else?

Azronger wrote:Plagueis and anyone above him. Comparatively powerful, more masterful, more skilled.

Vaelias wrote:People who can beat Valk could be anyone who can deflect his force lightning or drain really that's all he can really do hes a relatively crappy duelist id argue that a fair bit of people who are less powerful than him could beat him 

for sith some notable people would be
sidious 
krayt
exar kun
bane 
plagueis
vader
caedus 

for jedi id say

luke 
yoda
mace
kyp
saba
kyle
jaina