Revan vs Darth Nihilus – Revisited

Darth Nihilus wrote:@DarthAnt66

DarthAnt66 wrote:As I said, the fact the game does not adjust for the Yavin IV nexus debuff is the point. Refer back to my first paragraph for my explanation. If you don't get that, no worries, refer to my other points that should sufficiently address the amp/hindrances independent of the stats point.

I think I already understand your argument in the first paragraph. You are essentially saying that Satele's BM overcame the nexus's debuff and so 'the fact the game does not adjust for the Yavin IV nexus debuff is the point' because her BM was superior. And in response, I said that you have to show that the characters (light sided ones) have reduced stats when Satele is not using her BM on Yavin IV. If the characters do not have reduced stats when Satele is not even using her BM, then it clearly shows that the nexus debuff is not taken into account in those stats when even under the normal conditions of Satele not utilizing her BM. And so regardless of what 200 or 500% increase Satele's BM does during the Revan fight, it does not show superiority over the nexus debuff because the nexus debuff is not even shown under the conditions of Satele not using her BM on Yavin IV. One is taken into account in those stats, and the other is not taken into account under any conditions.  All the 200% buffs Satele's BM would show is that it enhanced the characters but would not mean it was more impactful than the nexus debuffs. In other words, her 200% amps may have only helped to lessen the impact of the debuff of the nexus and not overcome it or even show superiority to it. You have to show that the characters have reduced stats when Satele is not using her BM on Yavin IV to prove that the stats are taking into account the nexus debuffs in the first place. Only then could you argue that Satele's BM shows superiority over the nexus because it would show that when Satele is not using her BM the characters have reduced stats but when Satele is using her BM the characters are more empowered despite the debuff.

No. I'm saying the fact the game does not include the DS nexus debuff but includes a unprecedented BM buff shows the latter is more impactful than the former at an S-Continuity level--both on an intent level (what the developers want to convey) and a technical level (what actually ends up in the lore). 

Perhaps think of it this way: in S-Continuity, no character is weakened by the DS nexus but every character is uber empowered by the BM. In C-Continuity, we know some characters are probably weakened by the DS nexus but also still that every character is uber empowered by the BM. Given C-Continuity does not inform us of which buff/debuff is more significant, we must refer back to S-Continuity--in which the net contrast between a non-existent DS nexus debuff and a unprecedented BM buff plainly shows the BM far-and-away nullified the DS nexus--over N-Continuity fan-theory speculations that maybe-possibly-perhaps the strike team was weakened. Note the fact that S-Continuity has no character weakened by the DS nexus even outside of the Revan boss fight is wholly irrelevant to this point. S-Continuity is "designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created" and "can serve to provide a scale from which to compare how one character or piece of technology stacks up against another," so it's prioritization of the BM buff over the DS nexus debuff is canonically binding regardless.

Or this way: the only canonical reference point we have to gauge whether the BM buff nullified the DS nexus debuff is the S-Continuity comparison between an uber stats increase for the BM and a non-existent stats decrease for the DS nexus debuff. Though this is an imperfect metric (because, as you keep pointing out, the game doesn't feature a stats decrease for the DS nexus debuff even outside of the Revan boss fight), it is still our only objective metric, and the nature of S-Continuity revolving around stat comparisons and bending lore absolutes to fit game mechanic constraints makes the acceptance of this metric more palatable anyway. 

Or maybe this way: it's not important that the game doesn't feature a stats decrease for the DS nexus debuff during the fight or anywhere else. What is important is that the game features a major stats increase for the BM despite the fact it doesn't feature a stats decrease for the DS nexus debuff during the fight or anywhere else.

Also, again, refer to my other points that should sufficiently address the amp/hindrances independent of this stats point too.

DarthAnt66 wrote:
No. I'm saying the fact the game does not include the DS nexus debuff but includes a unprecedented BM buff shows the latter is more impactful than the former at an S-Continuity level--both on an intent level (what the developers want to convey) and a technical level (what actually ends up in the lore). 

Perhaps think of it this way: in S-Continuity, no character is weakened by the DS nexus but every character is uber empowered by the BM. In C-Continuity, we know some characters are probably weakened by the DS nexus but also still that every character is uber empowered by the BM. Given C-Continuity does not inform us of which buff/debuff is more significant, we must refer back to S-Continuity--in which the net contrast between a non-existent DS nexus debuff and a unprecedented BM buff plainly shows the BM far-and-away nullified the DS nexus--over N-Continuity fan-theory speculations that maybe-possibly-perhaps the strike team was weakened. Note the fact that S-Continuity has no character weakened by the DS nexus even outside of the Revan boss fight is wholly irrelevant to this point. S-Continuity is "designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created" and "can serve to provide a scale from which to compare how one character or piece of technology stacks up against another," so it's prioritization of the BM buff over the DS nexus debuff is canonically binding regardless.

Or this way: the only canonical reference point we have to gauge whether the BM buff nullified the DS nexus debuff is the S-Continuity comparison between an uber stats increase for the BM and a non-existent stats decrease for the DS nexus debuff. Though this is an imperfect metric (because, as you keep pointing out, the game doesn't feature a stats decrease for the DS nexus debuff even outside of the Revan boss fight), it is still our [b]only [/b]objective metric, and the nature of S-Continuity revolving around stat [b]comparisons [/b]and bending lore absolutes to fit game mechanic constraints makes the acceptance of this metric more palatable anyway. 

Or maybe this way: it's not important that the game doesn't feature a stats decrease for the DS nexus debuff during the fight or anywhere else. What[b] is[/b] important is that the game features a major stats increase for the BM [b]despite the fact[/b] it doesn't feature a stats decrease for the DS nexus debuff during the fight or anywhere else.

Also, again, refer to my other points that should sufficiently address the amp/hindrances independent of this stats point too.

I will discuss this with you through Privates Messages just to avoid derailing this thread and also to avoid @darthbane77 from sidestepping the Chris screenshots any longer.