Suspect Insight Forums
We've moved to Discord! Join us here: https://discord.gg/b6fuSxa3uD
Suspect Insight Forums
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Go down
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level Two
Level Two

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 12:51 pm
voting outlander
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 1:02 pm
Azronger wrote:
@Jake wrote:Gethzerion
Geistalt
Geistalt

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 1:03 pm
Outlander.
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray
Moderator
Moderator

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 1:06 pm
Vaylin
Reynard (Ethanion)
Reynard (Ethanion)

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 1:23 pm
Gethezerion
DarthSkywalker0
DarthSkywalker0

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 1:30 pm
Vaylin
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 2:45 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 QWD9chhSwo71hWTxuOm_6wpEFRMzn8CtQZGorGxnj0M1r8_b9LHzoiiqHwhMgc2s6g_Rat_g4OxWfCL8ZQhMW7pej47rRrQWence7Dh9IAVYZlsGa2PRMjk5ybd4_zc4nDT_nJv_

A CASE FOR KUELLER

1. BEGINNING NOVEL KUELLER




Kueller feeds off the deaths of millions, making him far more powerful.

Yet Kueller glowed, as if the pain of those million voices had fed something within him, had made him even greater than he had been before.

These deaths and Kueller's ascendancy shift the balance of the Force.

This disturbance would not be as great, but Skywalker would feel it. All the young Jedi would feel it too, and they would know that the balance of power had shifted.

But they wouldn't know that power had shifted to him. To Kueller, Master of Almania, and soon, lord of all their pitiful worlds.

Brakiss, who "amazed" Luke with his power and has "so much a Force connection," greatly fears Kueller's power. 

Kueller had helped put him together, and Brakiss served the powerful man out of gratitude and fear.

Brakiss shivered. The movement was fine, almost invisible, but Luke felt it as well as saw it. Brakiss wasn’t afraid of Luke. He was afraid of the person who had sent Luke the message. The person who wanted Luke in Almania.

So powerful that a man like Brakiss, who had so much talent in the Force that the Empire had taken him, as a baby, to train in the dark side, was terrified of him.

Those words had reverberated for Luke as Brakiss ran to his ship, as he escaped Yavin 4, as he tried to flee himself. I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him as well as Yoda. I was wrong. 

Kueller already scales above Kyp Durron and Mara Jade, and needs to only kill Luke and Leia to become the most powerful Force user in the galaxy.

Kueller had decided to kill them both, in order to become the most powerful Force user in the galaxy. 

Kueller had decided to kill them both, in order to become the most powerful Force user in the galaxy. A young man’s hands. Not the hands of the most powerful man in the galaxy. Not yet. But soon. Very soon.

“But if Kueller destroys you, he scatters the Jedi, and becomes the strongest in the Force in the galaxy.”

2. MID NOVEL KUELLER


Kueller’s power continues to grow, fueled by the Pydyr death energies and his hatred.

The hatred had festered so deep in him that it fueled the dark side. No wonder he had grown so strong so quickly.

Kueller's power makes the planet Almania feel like a planetary dark side nexus to Luke.

The feeling grew stronger, both familiar and unfamiliar. The dark side was strong near Almania. Almost as if the entire planet were awash in it. Luke's mouth was dry. Perhaps he should go back to Coruscant and get help. Leia, Han, anyone. Going into this alone would be very destructive and difficult.

Luke even grows physically cold as he approaches Almania. 

Kueller blocks Luke's telepathic connection with Leia, which Luke notes to be an unprecedented occurrence.

But the connection broke; shattered as it never had before. He couldn’t feel her. He reached with his mind, feeling for her familiar sense, and she wasn’t there. It was as if someone had built a wall around his mind.

Leia?

She couldn’t be dead, could she? Her thought for him had been filled with concern, but he thought the concern was for him, not because she was in trouble. Leia? He sought out the children, and could feel them, squabbling happily on Anoth. He even got a sense of his students back on Yavin 4, but not of Leia. Or of anyone close to her. Something was blocking him. Something purposeful.

Luke reaffirms Kueller is more powerful than Kyp Durron or Mara Jade.

Luke had never had a student that powerful, of that he was certain. Whoever it was became powerful after he had left the academy. 

Luke identifies the source of the power as having a malevolence unlike anyone he has felt since Palpatine.

But this wasn't Brakiss. That much he knew. This was someone else. Someone equally familiar.

And more powerful. Much more powerful to be felt from so far away.

The feeling had a malevolence in it, though, that was unfamiliar. Except around Emperor Palpatine. Luke had felt it then.

But this wasn't Palpatine. This was someone else. Someone Luke had known.

Luke states Kueller is more powerful than any living being he has felt since Palpatine. Note that this is likely in reference to Return of the Jedi Palpatine, as Bantam Books either differentiate Dark Empire Palpatine as instead the “reborn Emperor” or outright ignore the series. This quote referring to Dark Empire also breaks much of the existing lore established in New Rebellion - in that the "Emperor" is always referred to as his Return of the Jedi iteration unless explicitly mentioned otherwise, meaning Kueller scales above Joruus C’baoth and Dathomir-amped Gethzerion. 

The presence had neared. It was strong in the dark side. He could feel the ripples, feel a power he hadn’t felt in a living being since he encountered the Emperor. 

Some might argue that this also breaks the existing lore, because Sidious in Dark Empire was more powerful than Return of the Jedi, but it would also mean that Leia believes Kueller is more powerful than Dark Empire Sidious. The real OOU explanation is that Bantam Books ignored the events of Dark Empire all together.

Gethzerion was able to one-shot Luke Skywalker as of 8 ABY with the Force:

“I’ve met your kind before,” Luke said. “Listen to me, Gethzerion: turn away from the dark side before it is too late!”

Gethzerion nodded thoughtfully. “Pardon me if I say that I don’t find you to be very impressive, young Jedi. It’s a shame that you must die before you have a chance to witness how I make your friends writhe.”

She pointed a finger at Luke, and before Luke even recognized her evil intent, a ripple of Force slammed into him. White lights exploded behind his eyes, and the right side of his face felt as if it had been smashed by a hammer. His left arm and right leg crumpled under their unbearable weight, and he dropped to the ground on one knee, stunned. All the noise and blaster fire and screams of pain died away, became a distant roaring. Gethzerion pointed at him again, twitched her finger, and his eyes lost focus. He felt the hammer blow to his left temple, dropped to his side and rolled over to his back, gasping. Luke stared up at the sky, watching streams of rocks hurtling above him—some propelled by the Force, others hurled by rancors.

Time seemed to slow. His head throbbed, pounding to the same rhythm as the beating of his heart. His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion’s spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield.

Joruus C'baoth was able to fire lightning with enough force to knock Luke off balance, drop him painfully onto his knees, and cause him to struggle to get up, in spite of the latter using his lightsaber to defend himself from it, and in spite of the lighting not hitting Skywalker directly.

Luke dropped his lightsaber back into defense position, senses again tingling with danger. But once again, the knowledge did him little good. C’baoth’s lightning burst flashed against the lightsaber blade, the impact knocking Luke off balance and dropping him painfully onto his knees in the pile of stones around him. Even as he struggled to get up, one of the falling rocks slammed hard into the side of his head. He staggered, toppling sideways onto one hand. Again the lightning flashed, throwing coronal fire all through the stone pile and sending wave after wave of agony through him. The lightsaber was plucked from his fingers; dimly he saw it fly over the railing toward the far end of the throne room.

Note that a far weaker iteration of Luke was capable of briefly deflecting RotJ Sidious' lightning with the Force, (which is far more difficult than repelling it with a lightsaber) though the Emperor overwhelmed him. 

Palpatine raised his spidery arms toward Luke: blinding white bolts of energy coruscated from his fingers, shot across the room like sorcerous lightning, and tore through the boy’s insides, looking for ground. The young Jedi was all at once confounded and in agony—he’d never heard of such a power, such a corruption of the Force, let alone experienced it. But if it was Force-generated, it could be Force-repelled. Luke raised his arms to deflect the bolts. Initially, he was successful -- the lightning rebounded from his touch, harmlessly into the walls. Soon, though, the shocks came with such speed and power, they coursed over and into him, and he could only shrink before them, convulsed with pain, his knees buckling, his powers at ebb.

Kueller then easily defeats Luke. However, Luke was below “ten percent” of his full power, suffering severe burns and broken bones after having fallen far from his exploded X-Wing. Note that Kueller believed that, even though Luke was terribly injured, he would still be a “formidable opponent."

Slowly Kueller drew his lightsaber, the hiss filling the street. Its blade burned blue.

"I don't want to fight you, Dolph," Luke said.

"You won't be fighting Dolph," Kueller replied. He slashed at Luke. In one quick movement, Luke grabbed his lightsaber and blocked Kueller's swipe with his own blade. The electric clang of the sabers filled the air, sending sparks all around them. Each movement ripped at Luke's back, but he focused on the blade instead: parrying, defending, blocking, never really attacking. He would wait until Kueller was open before making his move.

Kueller hit at Luke's left, then his right, then his heart. But Luke kept blocking. Kueller pushed Luke backward, toward the house. Luke stumbled on his weak leg, and collapsed on the knee. A river of pain ran through his thigh. Kueller brought his lightsaber down onto Luke's shoulder, but Luke rolled away from it, his back burning as dirt from the road ground into his wounds.

He pushed himself up and swiped at Kueller, singeing his cape. The hum of lightsabers filled the air. Sweat ran down Luke's face. His strength was gone. He had gone through too much in the last few days. But he concentrated on Kueller's movements, lived for Kueller's movements, blocked them, anticipated them, and held his ground.

In a series of five rapid thrusts, Kueller moved Luke backward again. Luke parried, parried, parried, but couldn't keep his balance. His ankle was clearly broken and unable to support him. Kueller jabbed at Luke's left side. Luke swiveled to dodge, and Kueller jabbed again. Luke's ankle buckled, but he didn't fall. Kueller pushed closer, and knocked Luke's lightsaber from his hand.

Kueller held his blue blade beneath Luke's chin. Luke could feel its heat, smell its electric tang.

"I should kill you now," Kueller said.

Luke was breathing hard, but he felt no fear. He could call the lightsaber to him, and continue the battle, but somehow he knew that Kueller wasn't yet ready to kill him. 

Luke Skywalker investigated Brakiss' droid-manufacturing plant on Telti and set out for Almania. His X-Wing had been sabotaged, though, and while he was passing the devastated moon of Pydyr, the X-Wing exploded. Skywalker bailed out and found himself stranded on Pydyr, with third-degree burns on his back and a shattered left ankle. His left leg had been weak ever since his ordeal aboard the Eye of Palpatine, and he found himself unable to move without assistance.

Kueller was unable to resist such a rich prize as a wounded Jedi Master. He traveled to Pydyr, where Skywalker recognized the skull-masked nightmare as Dolph, his former pupil. Skywalker tried to reach the core of goodness inside Kueller, but failed. The Almanian autocrat forced a lightsaber duel and easily defeated his hobbled opponent. 

And after he reached her, he would go to Skywalker. Even though the man was injured, even though he had lost everything, he would still be a formidable opponent.

After losing terribly, Luke believes he would need “all of his strength” to defeat Kueller.

He was resting, regaining his strength as best he could. The feeling of being watched was gone, for the moment, but he knew it would return. And it had something to do with Almania. After he let the food settle, he would question the house’s computer again. He was hoping it knew of a bacta tank or the Pydyrian equivalent. Anything to help him heal faster. He had to do more than Jedi practices. He knew that he would need all of his strength. 

Leia believes Kueller is more powerful than any living being she has encountered for many years, including Luke (and Dark Empire Sidious if you still don't believe that quote refers to RotJ Sidious).

And to preemptively address rebuttals to RotJ/DE Sidious, Leia would know the full potency of Dark Empire Sidious very well. And if this is true, then let's put him in the #2 spot above Sheev, shall we? ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 3344068304

The key to Luke's turning is the moment when he and Leia realize the Emperor is no longer defined by his physical form, but has become a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine.

She wished she had the same certainty. This Kueller had more Force capability than anyone she had encountered in years. Except Exar Kun, and he had been a spirit. Kueller was alive. He was using these deaths to replenish his own well of hatred. The dark side ate people from within, but while it did so, it gave them much too much power.

He appeared to have more power than she had. More power than Luke.

3. END NOVEL KUELLER


Kueller’s power continues to grow, now further fueled by terrorist bombings across the Smuggler’s Run. Mara Jade likens this growth to “a droid hooked up to a power cable” and suggests he may soon become outright unbeatable. Note, she knows that RotJ Palpatine was beatable. 

She leaned against the wall. "Do you know how many people have died in the last few weeks, Solo?"

"Enough," he said, thinking of the Run.

"More than enough," she said. "Too many. Kueller's using them to build strength. He's absorbing the dark side like a droid hooked up to a power cable. If this continues, he may be unbeatable."

Mara Jade states Kueller’s power is comparable to “early days” Palpatine. This is likely in reference to Palpatine’s power-level between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope, as Mara Jade was taken and apprenticed by Palpatine as a child not long after 17 BBY. Note that Mara Jade has sensed the “supreme power” of Joruus C’baoth.

“I haven’t felt power like this since Palpatine in the early days.”

Mara swallowed, shivering from the cold night wind and the colder feeling within her. Thrawn had said that C’baoth was insane, and she could indeed hear the unstable edge of madness in his voice. But there was far more to the man than just that. There was a hard steel behind the voice, ruthless and calculating, with a sense of both supreme power and supreme confidence underlying it all.

Mara Jade believes Kueller could become stronger than Palpatine and quicker. Note that Palpatine’s growth rate was immense. In six months, Darth Vader went from pleading with Luke to join him to “no longer daring to entertain thoughts of rebellion” because “the Emperor seemed more powerful than ever” and “omniscient.”

“If this continues, Han, Kueller will be stronger than the Emperor ever was, and he’ll do it quicker.”

Vader, who was all too aware of the Sith “rule of two” that mandated a single master and a single apprentice at any time, had his own designs on Luke. Palpatine’s omniscience, however, had changed the rules of engagement. Vader no longer dared to entertain thoughts of rebellion, not when the Emperor seemed more powerful than ever before."

Kueller then decisively defeats Luke in a climatic final duel. Open the spoiler tag to read their full fight:

Spoiler:
Luke dodged as Leia's lightsaber sailed in the air toward him, landing neatly in his fingers.

Immediately he ignited the blade and its reassuring hum echoed in the growing darkness.

"Ah," Kueller said. "So you have chosen to fight me. Careful, Master Skywalker. If you do so with the wrong attitude, you might join my side."

"I've fought better than you, Kueller," Luke said. The lightsaber felt odd in his hand. "And won."

"Years ago, Skywalker. You've become complacent." Kueller slashed at Luke. Luke parried, the electric clash of blades ringing in the night air.

Then Kueller whirled and blocked several bursts of blaster fire. Leia peeked out of the bay doors.

"Leave him alone, Kueller. It's me you want!" she yelled.

His death mask glowed from an internal light. It made his smile even more sinister than usual. "Actually, President, I want your entire family. Without them, there are no true Jedi." Luke inched closer. His blade was still out, still humming. He wanted Kueller to fight him, not Leia. Leia wasn't ready yet. "Actually, Kueller, there are dozens of Jedi now."

"But not Jedi Masters, Skywalker."

"There are more than you imagine," Luke said, thinking of Callista. She would provide quite a battle against Kueller, even without the Force.

Kueller turned to Luke, and Leia fired again. Without even looking at her, Kueller blocked the blaster shots. The shots flew harmlessly to the sides. Then her blaster rose in the air, and exploded a few feet above her head.

"Use another of those, President, and it will explode in your hand."

"You like explosions, don't you, Kueller?" she said. Luke suppressed a smile. She was trying to distract him so Luke could attack. But it wasn't that easy. Kueller had pushed Luke far enough that Luke's feelings were confused. He wasn't certain if he was going after Kueller out of anger or hatred, instead of in defense. That would only make Kueller stronger.

He seemed to be stronger anyway, giving credence to Luke's theory.

"Small explosions, President," Kueller said, his blade still locked with Luke's. "Large ones destroy wealth." Leia stepped out of the bay. She was unarmed. "Even if you kill us, Kueller, you won't get the rest of us. The explosives you put in the droids won't work. We shut the droids off."

"Did you, now?" Kueller's tone was mocking. Luke could feel the physical pressure Kueller was putting on the blade. They were locked in a battle of wills, their strength holding the blades together in a haze of light. "You managed to tell all the developed planets about the droids, President? Because if you didn't, then I will still get enough strength from one single order to defeat you all. " A chill ran through Luke. All those lives. All those billions of lives. They meant nothing more to Kueller than a breath of air, a surge of adrenaline, a swallow of food. Anger flowed through Luke, deep and fine and rich. He had created this monster. Luke, through his arrogance, had given Kueller all the tools he needed to destroy the entire galaxy. If Luke hadn't taught all his students about the dark side, if he hadn't warned them repeatedly and in detail about the quick and easy path, then Kueller would still be Dolph, not this hateful being who wore a death mask proudly and dealt in lives as a smuggler dealt in stolen goods.

Kueller turned toward Luke and grinned. His lightsaber broke free from the enmeshment and whooshed near Luke. Luke jumped aside, pain shivering through his back, and down his arms.

Kueller had suddenly gotten stronger.

"Kueller!" Leia shouted. She held another blaster. He turned his attention to her, and Luke thrust his blade toward Kueller's side, drawing blood before Kueller swirled away.

Easy blood. The lightsaber moved with a sureness Luke had never felt before.

Leia's blaster was turning red. She tossed it aside before it exploded, and rolled in the opposite direction.

Kueller had turned back to Luke, thrusting, parrying, thrusting, their sabers locked in a battle as loud and spark-filled as Luke's battle with Vader. Kueller's breath hissed through the mask, but it wasn't Vader's stentorian breathing that it imitated.

It was the Emperor's greedy gasping.

Luke staggered under Kueller's next blow, and barely managed to roll aside. His ankle kept buckling under him, but he forced himself to put weight on it. They had moved into the alleyway Luke had seen in that strange moment of vision. Stones littered the ground all around them, and the light only came through a small opening on either end. Luke could no longer see Leia.

Use your aggressive feelings, boy! Let the hate flow through you.

Kueller struck at him, his blow shattering a nearby rock. He was stronger. Much stronger. And his strength seemed to be increasing. Luke's arms were growing tired battling the power of Kueller's blade.

Then Kueller laughed, a gurgling, familiar laugh. The Emperor's laugh, the unamused choking of a slave to the dark side.

Fueled by hatred, anger, and fear.

Luke was making him stronger. Luke's response, his hatred, his own self-loathing at creating this thing, this student who had become a horror, was making the thing even stronger.


Kueller slammed his blade against Luke's, and the sparks lit the area all around them. Luke parried. Parried again. And again. He was trapped in a cycle of hatred and anger. If he fought, Kueller got stronger, and if he attacked, Kueller got stronger still.

Luke glanced at the mouth of the alley.

No Leia.

He was alone with this thing he had created. The rogue student. The Vader to his Ben.

Vader.

Ben.

Luke grinned. He suddenly knew what he had to do to break free.

---

It was Luke's name.

And she said it in a voice that Han had never heard before, but he knew what it meant.

It meant he was too late.

Her hands were useless, and Kueller was no longer listening to her arguments. He was watching Luke.

Luke, who looked like a man possessed.

Luke, who had always warned her not to give in to anger, was giving in to his.


And Kueller was smiling. He seemed to be growing taller, and broader, the aura of power around him so great that it made him seem invincible.

Then a look passed across Luke's face. It was a familiar look, but it wasn't his. She had seen it before.

On the day she met him, so many years ago.

She had seen that look the only time she had seen Obi-Wan Kenobi alive. He had been fighting Darth Vader, and then he smiled, and raised his lightsaber--and Vader cut him in half. His lightsaber's blade faded, the hilt spinning through the air before landing on his empty, steaming cloak.

Luke had said Obi-Wan believed that moment made him stronger, but really it had only made him dead.

Dead.

Leia stumbled a few steps forward. Luke didn't see her in the growing darkness. Kueller hesitated as Luke slowly raised his light-saber blade toward his face.

Just as Obi-Wan had.

Kueller smiled.

Just as Vader must have.

"Luuuuuuuuuuke!" Leia screamed as Kueller brought his lightsaber up, preparing to strike.

---

Luke was raising his lightsaber, his heart pounding. He was reaching out with the Force, going back to the place he had gone when he first fought Exar Kun. He would be out of his body but protected within the Force. Just as Ben had done in his battle with Darth Vader.

Luke would come back even stronger, and he would guide Leia to defeat Kueller.

Luke's lightsaber had reached a thirty-degree angle with his chin when he felt as if he were wrapped in a warm, soft blanket. He could still see through his eyes, but the rest of his senses were suddenly dim. He could no longer sense Leia or even Kueller.

His blade came up, and Kueller's blade swung back, but Luke couldn't leave his own body. He had lost the Force. It was gone. He was blind and numb without it.

He would die without it

Kueller's blade came down, and Luke limped out of the way only to back into the ruined tower wall. Kueller had him cornered. There was no place to go.

Luke was trapped, both inside, and out.

As highlighted in red, the battle is characterized as a dramatic step-up from Luke’s final duel with Vader. This time, now a far more powerful Luke again fights “like a man possessed” with anger and a “sureness he has never felt before.” Moreover, the battle's intensity is likened to "Luke's battle with Vader," but Kueller is then explicitly differentiated from “Vader’s stentorian breathing” and likened to “the Emperor’s greedy gasping" repeatedly. 

As highlighted in blue, Kueller feeds off Luke’s hatred throughout the fight, progressively growing stronger. By its end, Leia believes Kueller is seemingly “invincible,” and Luke begins to “stagger” under his empowered blows. Luke eventually recognizes the only way he can win is if he lets himself die. This is all in contrast to mid-novel Kueller believing Luke at below “ten percent” his full power would still be a good fight, validating the earlier quotes emphasizing Kueller’s growth rate.

He was resting, regaining his strength as best he could. The feeling of being watched was gone, for the moment, but he knew it would return. And it had something to do with Almania. After he let the food settle, he would question the house’s computer again. He was hoping it knew of a bacta tank or the Pydyrian equivalent. Anything to help him heal faster. He had to do more than Jedi practices. He knew that he would need all of his strength.

Note that Luke is still not back to full power during this fight. However, as mentioned earlier, Luke actively tries to heal these injuries as best he can, and practices Jedi exercises in preparation for the fight. Moreover, being rage-amped likely significantly nullified these handicaps, as he fought "like a man possessed" and with a "sureness he has never felt before." Note Luke was "well matched" and it was "a battle of equals" when fighting Vader on the Death Star, then when Luke received this same rage-amp, he stomped Vader accordingly. 

Just in case anyone forgot the metric we will be using for this tournament: the metric to rank characters will be the extent that Darth Malgus as of Decieved would need an amp to defeat them. Malgus is notorious for fueling himself with rage. As seen in the fight above, Kueller would continuously amping himself up to extreme levels in order to match Malgus' amp, and thus Malgus would not only have to have an amp to match Kueller's base level after his feeling of "invincibility" towards Luke, but he would need an even more gargantuan amp to account for Kueller's power levels increasing as Malgus draws on more rage.  

4. CONCLUSION


Kueller fed off the deaths of millions and became stronger than any living being Luke or Leia have felt since Palpatine. Then, Kueller fed off Luke’s hatred and became all-but “invincible” and seemingly significantly more powerful than Luke. Malgus would need a Kueller++ amp to compete with Kueller's growth rate, and his base is already above Gethzerion and Joruus C'baoth.

This is a message to all Gethzerion supporters; if you're voting for Gethzerion, you really should switch to Kueller, who scales directly over her Dathomir-amped version in Force power by the mid-novel, and grows significantly beyond this. Any perceived edge Gethzerion has over other candidates, Kueller does too, to a much greater extent.


Last edited by EmperorCaedus on March 30th 2020, 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
Gᴏᴀᴛ
Gᴏᴀᴛ

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 2:54 pm
Message reputation : 100% (9 votes)
Great post, @EmperorCaedus. Voting Kun.

[hideedit]
xolthol
xolthol
Level Five
Level Five

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 3:29 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
I have already provided a strong case for Vaylin [HERE]. I will made a more complete case that put her above the like of Kun, Kueller and other
darthbane77
darthbane77

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 5:21 pm
Outlander.
Gianfi
Gianfi

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 5:28 pm
Great posto Emperor Caedus, I'm voting Kueller now instaed of the Outlander
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 6:47 pm
Everyone considering Kueller in part because of the Mara Jade quote comparing him to a version of Sidious, I recommend looking through this: 

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t2918-kueller-respect-thread-2020

Az makes some very good points.
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 6:52 pm
@BoD: Note how I never made any further conclusions based off the Mara quotes themselves, like "Kueller is equal to Sheev per Mara" just that these quotes are impressive. They are padding that add to the other quotes concerning the subject.
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Level Two
Level Two

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 8:14 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
The Alliance Commander, Slayer of the Immortal Emperor and Omnipotent Master of the Eternal Throne.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 9:47 pm
@LadyKulvax wrote:Gethzerion and Kueller are both inferior to Exar Kun. Exar Kun along with Sheev is among the greatest focal points or dark side nexuses that Luke ever faced as of 19ABY:

Specter of the Past wrote:There in front of him, starkly visible against the blackness of space, he could see the faint images of Emperor Palpatine and Exar Kun, two of the greatest focal points of the dark side he’d ever had to face. They were standing there before him, gazing back at him. And laughing.

Being a focal point/nexus is a defining measure of power  with which Luke Skywalker deems a dark sider too powerful as opposed to the likes of Joruus C'boath, Gethzerion or even Kueller, none of whom achieved a state of becoming a nexus:

Dark Empire Endnotes wrote:The key to Luke's turning is the moment when he and Leia realize the Emperor is no longer defined by his physical form, but has become a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine.

Vote Exar Kun.

A reminder, a vote for Kueller is a vote Exar Kun.
Geistalt
Geistalt

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 10:06 pm
Nonsense.

Proof that the characters you listed aren't focal points of the dark side?
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 30th 2020, 11:43 pm
Proof that they are? The burden is on you to assert that they are. None of them are ever referred to as such. You also entirely missed the point that it was realising Sheev was so powerful as to be a nexus that caused Luke to turn to the dark side. Gethzerion and Joruus were explicitly inferior due to this. Kun can be held in similarly high regard, the supporting evidence is clear:

Champions of the Force wrote:If Kyp could face this final test, Luke would know he'd passed through the fire of his testing-tempered by forces as dire and powerful as those Luke himself had endured.

Children of the Jedi wrote:Ben, he thought, would have had something to say, something healing...Yoda would have known how to deal with the wretched ruin of a friend's heart and life. The mightiest Jedi in the universe, he reflected bitterly--that he knew of, anyway - come the destroyer of the Sun Crusher, the slayer of evil, who'd defeated the recloned Emperor and the Sith Lord Exar Kun. . .
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

March 31st 2020, 3:17 am
An Exploration of Exar Kun's Feats

I've made cases elaborating on Exar Kun's scaling via accolades, yet his feats are also absolutely immense.

Exar Kun upon accepting the dark side has galaxy-scale Force screams:

Essential Guide to Characters wrote:Nadd offered Kun a way to live, and to repair his broken body: if he embraced the dark side, he would be healed. The betrayal of light was not an easy one for Kun, but the desire to live was stronger. He accepted the dark side, his screams reaching out across the galaxy and creating ripples in the Force.

New Essential Chronology wrote:Exar Kun let out a tremendous shriek that echoed across the galaxy, calling in despair upon Master Vodo, whom he had abandoned.

Vodo Siosk-Baas, Tales of the Jedi Audio Drama wrote:"I can hear my apprentice calling out in evil triumph."

Exar Kun's mere presence caused localised quakes:

Savum Tan, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:The very ground trembled beneath his feet and when he looked at you, you just...

Exar Kun's telekinesis, whilst magnitudes of power pre-prime, lifted a 215-meter long battlecruiser out of the depths of, and through, an enormous temple:

Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide wrote:Though all of the Derriphan-class battleships were thought to be destroyed in the Great Hyperspace War, at least one survived. The ship, belonging to Naga Sadow, was buried on Yavin 4. During the Great Sith War, Exar Kun would raise the ship from the planet and put it back to service, similar to the way Darth Nihilus would raise the Ravager from the ruined surface of Malachor V.

Yavin IV, Star Wars Databank wrote:Sadow commanded his crew to erect massive temples to serve as focal points for his Sith magic. Sadow, a skilled alchemist, hid his vessel deep underneath the newly built Sith Temple of Fire.

Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:There, his Massassi crew helped build stone temples to focus the energies of the dark side (conveniently hiding Sadow's Sith battleship).

Yet Exar Kun himself doesn't believe he's displayed a 'good use' of his power yet:

Exar Kun, Tales of the Jedi wrote:"Now that I am no longer stranded on the Yavin moon, it is time to put my power to good use."

Exar Kun froze an entire Senate casually:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQcoyfRkq-elMPIn1qh562uwpuHFMjrW96yScItBGBG8K1UmL8j&usqp=CAU

From the following image you can see how many of them there are in just one small box whilst near Kun and the Chancellor:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRRdubpM2jrx1OMcGOmZbF83ZJG6Se1WSHTt4lHmMH5Tp7MkJb7&usqp=CAU

And how vast the entire thing is:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSleSXYEm8T_VDlGOW-Dh7QjQN7Swuc30NIgUwELrzCztVSVNfo&usqp=CAU
★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Latest?cb=20190518155124

It is further explained that this Chamber was massive and only used for 'large ceremonial events':

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQ11BnBZ1dOUENrIlg2FZrWDUPWXKzUuF9CUP83cKubvnx-iANX&usqp=CAU

He's maintaining this whilst ragdolling Nomi-blitzing Sylvar:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 4249314-tk%20sylvar

Yet is still so much more powerful than Vodo that Vodo is no match:

Power of the Jedi Sourcebook wrote:The two fought, and Vodo-Siosk Baas was no match for Exar Kun’s double-bladed lightsaber and deep reserve of dark side power. Vodo-Siosk perished, slain by his former apprentice.

This is the same Vodo who can rip Ulic Qel-Droma's weapon from his hands and block his powers:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTuTGZ4avZykxEV1FSf_CenrsjSkG21vQiQIpuin7p-etpJeuT3&usqp=CAU

Noting that Ulic could've killed all of Vodo's present aid years prior, years in which Ulic massively grew in power:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTiJvHd8uZ9OIUYTpMPfaIoJotRbDHEdaV7qhSRcyOnqS76vh-R&usqp=CAU

Ulic by this point can harness the Force in a way that is 'too much' power for Anakin Skywalker a month after the battle of Geonosis, and more than he can even imagine:

Ulic Qel-Droma, The Clone Wars Video Game wrote:"Yes I can teach you to harness the power of the Force around you, making you immune to the Dark Reaper's effects."

The Clone Wars Video Game Prima Guide wrote:Follow the advice of Ulic Qel-Droma throughout this fight and you grow more powerful than you can imagine.

Official Star Wars Fact File 107 wrote:The ancient Jedi Master warned that the knowledge he would pass to Anakin would let him resist the effects of the Force-stripping Harvester and the Dark Reaper it activated, but would perhaps give him too much power.

Official Star Wars Fact File 107 wrote:Although the knowledge given to Anakin allowed him to destroy the Dark Reaper, Obi-Wan was uncomfortable with the power that his Padawan now wielded.

Exar Kun furthermore is directly stated to have caused a 'torrent' of the dark side and its end is tied specifically to the Jedi strike force combining to attack and end Exar Kun's rule:

Exar Kun, Star Wars Databank wrote:Before Vader, before Maul, before Sidious... there was a Dark Lord of the Sith that cast a shadow of terror and destruction across the galaxy. The ancient forces of the Republic and the Jedi banded together to stop the torrent of the dark side, and bring an end to Exar Kun's rule.

We also know Exar Kun is more than powerful enough to do achieve telekinetic marvels such as rebuilding and destroying a mountainous fortress, given his superiority to Luke Skywalker during the Black Fleet Crisis:

Black Fleet Crisis I: Before the Storm wrote:He sat down on the sand, cross-legged and straight-backed, and brought his hands together in his lap, fingertip to fingertip. Concentrating on a picture in his mind, Luke dipped his awareness deeply into the flow of the Force beneath him. With eyes that looked inward, he found what he was seeking, like flaws in a near-perfect crystal. He extended his will.

The sand around him stirred. The rocks shuddered, shifted, then began to rise from the sea and the sand as though sifted from them by an invisible screen.

Swirling through the air as they sought their place, the stones took shape as broken wall and shattered foundation, as arch and gate and dome-the ruins of Darth Vader's fortress retreat. It hung in the air around and above Luke as it had once stood atop the cliff, a dark-faced and forbidding edifice.

There was no record in Imperial City's files to say whether his father had ever occupied the fortress, though it had clearly been built for him in accord with his instructions. It had been empty when it was destroyed by a B-wing's blasters, in the days after the New Republic reclaimed Coruscant.

Was this where Vader plotted his conquests in the Emperor's service?

Was this where he had come to rejuvenate after a battle? Had there been celebrations here, self-indulgent pleasures or cruelties? Luke listened for the echoes of the old evils, and could not be certain.

But that did not matter to his plans. As he had redeemed and reclaimed his father, he would redeem and reclaim his father's house.

Now the stones swirled again in the air, joined by others plucked from the sea and stripped from the face of the cliff. Now broken edge fused against broken edge, and the dark faces of the rock lightened as their mineral structure was reshuffled. Now heavy rock walls and floors thinned to an airy elegance as if they were clay in a potter's press.

Now a tower stretched skyward until it rose above the edge of the cliff.

When it was done, the last gap closed, the last rock transformed, the structure securely perched just above the sand on pillars of stone extending down to the bedrock, Luke brought the E-wing down the beach and nestled it in the chamber he had made for it. It was not a door that closed over the opening, though, but a solid wall that closed out not only the wind and the cold, but the world.

Black Fleet Crisis III: Tyrant's Nest wrote:Extending his hands and his will, Luke found the points of greatest stress within the structure and pressed upon them, found the points of greatest fragility and sundered them. With a roar that momentarily rivaled the wind, the hermitage collapsed in on itself, crushing the fighter still sealed within it.

But that was not enough to satisfy Luke, not enough to forever erase the temptation. One after another, he raised the pieces of the ruined hermitage, the broken ship, up out of the sand and into the air, crumbling them with the force of his thoughts, until it was a dense, swirling cloud of pebble-sized fragments and metal bits.

Then, with a final, explosive effort of will, he hurled the cloud of debris far out beyond the breakers, where it rained down on the churning water and vanished from sight.

New Rebellion wrote:This Kueller had more Force capability than anyone she had encountered in years. Except Exar Kun, and he had been a spirit. Kueller was alive. He was using these deaths to replenish his own well of hatred. The dark side ate people from within, but while it did so, it gave them much too much power. He appeared to have more power than she had. More power than Luke.

Kun also massively dwarfs Tott Doneeta who can 'quell' a Ryloth heat storm:

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Doneeta called upon the power of the Force to quell a heat storm threatening a Twi'lek clan.

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 47207010

These heat storms have speeds of 500 kilometers an hour and a temperature of 300 degrees celcius:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 47207210

These things were immense:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 47207310

They can reduce a person to dust before they can collapse:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 4720733-lsumxffa

And as a weakened spirit with already depleted Force energy, can channel Alter Environment strong enough to create a full-blown cyclone, with strength enough to launch Jedi thousands of feet into the air and 'crush' them against stone, as well as freeze the insides of a temple:

Champions of the Force wrote:Streen!

The old Bespin hermit stood on the outskirts of the storm with his brown Jedi robe flapping around him. His wild gray hair writhed around his head as if charged with static. His lips mumbled something incomprehensible, and his eyes remained closed as if he were having a nightmare. Leia knew that even powerful Jedi could not manipulate large-scale phenomena like the weather; but they could move objects, and she realized that was what Streen did now. Not changing the weather, but simply moving the air, drawing it in from all directions, creating a self-contained but destructive tornado that struck toward Luke's body.

"No!" she shouted into the starving wind.

"Streen!"

The cyclone struck Luke, buffeted his body, and lifted it into the air.

Leia ran toward her paralyzed brother, feet barely touching the ground as the powerful winds knocked her sideways. The storm wrenched her off balance, and she found herself thrown through the air, flying like an insect toward the stone walls. She spun around and reached out, calming herself enough to use her own abilities with the Force, to nudge her body away. Instead of being crushed against the stone blocks, she slid softly to the floor.

Luke's body continued rising, tugged upward by the hurricane. His Jedi robe wound around him as the winds spun him like a corpse launched out of a star-freighter air lock into the grave of space.

Streen didn't seem aware of what he was doing.

Leia staggered to her feet again and jumped. This time she rode the circling air currents, flying around the fringe of the cyclone toward her helpless brother. She reached out to grab the tail of his robe, felt her fingers clutch rough fabric, and then burn as the robe was snatched away from her. She fell back to the floor.

Luke had been drawn up into the tornado's mouth, rising toward the skylights.

"Luke!" she cried. "Please help me."

She had no idea if he could hear her, or if he could do anything.

Gathering strength in her leg muscles, she leaped into the air again. It might be possible to use her Jedi skills of levitation for a brief moment; Luke had done it several times, although she herself had never mastered the skill.

Now, though, it mattered more than it ever had before. As Leia sprang upward, the wind caught her. She rose high enough to grab Luke's body. She wrapped her arms around his waist, twisted her legs around his ankles, holding him, hoping her weight would drag him down.

But as they started to drop, the winds picked up in intensity, howling and roaring. Leia's skin went numb from the blinding wintry cold. They shot toward the roof of the grand audience chamber, toward the widest skylight, where jagged icicles hung like javelins.

Leia suddenly knew what Streen intended to do to them, whether consciously or unconsciously. They would be sucked out of the Great Temple, tossed high into the sky, and then allowed to crash thousands of feet to the spear-pointed branches of the jungle canopy.

The turbolift door opened. Kirana Ti charged out, followed by Tionne and Kam Solusar.

"Stop Streen!" Leia shouted.

Kirana Ti reacted instantly. She wore thin but supple red armor from the scaled hides of reptiles from Dathomir. She had been a warrior on her own world, fighting with untrained and unhoned skill in the Force, but she had also fought in physical combat as well.

Kirana Ti launched herself forward on long, muscular legs, ducking her head as she charged into the cyclonic wind that surrounded Streen. The old hermit stood entranced, spinning slowly around with his arms dangling at his sides and his fingertips spread apart, as if trying to catch something.

Kirana Ti staggered as she hit the wind, but she wrenched her head aside, spread her legs, and dug the toes of her bare feet against the stone floor for traction. She shoved forward into the wind and finally shattered through into the dead zone of the storm. She tackled Streen to the flagstoned floor and locked his arms behind his back. Streen cried out, then blinked his eyes open. He looked wildly around in confusion. Instantly the wind stopped blowing. The air fell still. High up at the ceiling of the grand audience chamber Leia and Luke plunged toward the unforgiving flagstones below. Luke fell like a doll, and Leia tried to remember how to use her levitation skills, but her mind went blank with panic.

Tionne and Kam Solusar raced forward, stretching out their arms, using what they had been taught. Less than a meter above the crushing stones, Leia found herself slowed, pausing in the air beside Luke's body. They drifted gently to the floor. Leia cradled Luke against her, but her brother did not respond.

Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:Some of these powers he was able to channel through Kyp, Gantoris, and Streen to achieve his ends.

I, Jedi wrote:My thinking was that Kun, still taxed from his having funneled enough power through Streen to create that cyclone

Exar Kun has the best feats here.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 2nd 2020, 6:49 am
Phoenix down.
The Lost
The Lost
Level Five
Level Five

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 2nd 2020, 10:03 pm
Kenobi by the EoRotS would kick Kun or the HoTLander's ass. By the time you get through Hett-Cade-Saarai-Vong Krayt scaling, Wyyrlok is looking pretty damn good. Think I'll vote for him.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 2nd 2020, 10:27 pm
Care to base that on literally anything?
The Lost
The Lost
Level Five
Level Five

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 2nd 2020, 11:26 pm
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 2nd 2020, 11:36 pm
Yet your basis is Kenobi > Kun and Outlander. There's absolutely no reason to believe that and EoROTS isn't even Kenobi's best incarnation. Order 66 had a massive effect on all Jedi survivors, BoROTS was Kenobi's prime.
The Lost
The Lost
Level Five
Level Five

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 2nd 2020, 11:39 pm
Anakin and Obi Wan fight fiercely though the control room on Mustafar. They each tap into the Force as they never have before.
--Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith - Play and Sound Interactive Novel
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 2nd 2020, 11:55 pm
@ILS: The real question that needs to be asked is why do you think Wyyrlok > Kueller, or how any of that puts Wyyrlok above Kueller
Sponsored content

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

Back to top
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum