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EmperorCaedus
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Kueller Respect Thread (2020) Empty Kueller Respect Thread (2020)

on March 26th 2020, 5:04 pm
Message reputation : 100% (6 votes)
Kueller Respect Thread (2020) QWD9chhSwo71hWTxuOm_6wpEFRMzn8CtQZGorGxnj0M1r8_b9LHzoiiqHwhMgc2s6g_Rat_g4OxWfCL8ZQhMW7pej47rRrQWence7Dh9IAVYZlsGa2PRMjk5ybd4_zc4nDT_nJv_

"I kill Skywalker, first, because it is my destiny. And secondly because I cannot rule this galaxy as long as he is alive. That is the lesson of history. I must be the strength in the Force. I must be the sole king of the Force. To do that, I must defeat the Jedi. I must defeat Skywalker."

1. INTRODUCTION


After reading The New Rebellion, I have found that Kueller is a character that is severely underrated and is easily among the top ten in the mythos. Thank you to Ant, Jake, Ethanion, and Goat for helping me with this. This respect thread will be split into five chronological sections to highlight Kueller's power progression:

1. Trainee Dolph
2. Beginning Novel Kueller
3. Mid Novel Kueller
4. End Novel Kueller
5. Conclusion

Note that the events of The New Rebellion are set in 17 ABY. Without further ado, let me introduce you to the Dark Jedi Kueller.

2. TRAINEE DOLPH


Dolph was an extremely talented student of Luke’s Jedi Academy.

Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Dolph was an extremely talented student of Luke Skywalker's on Yavin 4, but he always possessed a certain darkness. 

A Guide to the Star Wars Universe wrote:As Dolph, Kueller was an extremely talented student of Luke Skywalker.

New Rebellion wrote:Everything depended on how Luke played the next few moments. Dolph had been an extremely talented student who had always had a darkness in him. Such darkness wasn’t unusual.

BEGINNING NOVEL KUELLER


Kueller orchestrates terrorist bombings on the planet Pydyr and feeds off the deaths of millions, making him far more powerful.

New Rebellion wrote:Yet Kueller glowed, as if the pain of those million voices had fed something within him, had made him even greater than he had been before.

These deaths and Kueller's ascendancy shift the balance of the Force.

New Rebellion wrote:This disturbance would not be as great, but Skywalker would feel it. All the young Jedi would feel it too, and they would know that the balance of power had shifted.

But they wouldn't know that power had shifted to him. To Kueller, Master of Almania, and soon, lord of all their pitiful worlds.

Brakiss, who "amazed" Luke with his power and has "so much a Force connection," greatly fears Kueller's power. 

New Rebellion wrote:Kueller had helped put him together, and Brakiss served the powerful man out of gratitude and fear.

New Rebellion wrote:Brakiss shivered. The movement was fine, almost invisible, but Luke felt it as well as saw it. Brakiss wasn’t afraid of Luke. He was afraid of the person who had sent Luke the message. The person who wanted Luke in Almania.

New Rebellion wrote:So powerful that a man like Brakiss, who had so much talent in the Force that the Empire had taken him, as a baby, to train in the dark side, was terrified of him.

New Rebellion wrote:Those words had reverberated for Luke as Brakiss ran to his ship, as he escaped Yavin 4, as he tried to flee himself. I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him as well as Yoda. I was wrong. 

Kueller is already more powerful than Kyp Durron or Mara Jade, and needs to only kill Luke and Leia to become the most powerful Force user in the galaxy.

The Essential Chronology wrote:Kueller had decided to kill them both, in order to become the most powerful Force user in the galaxy. 

New Rebellion wrote:Kueller had decided to kill them both, in order to become the most powerful Force user in the galaxy. A young man’s hands. Not the hands of the most powerful man in the galaxy. Not yet. But soon. Very soon.

Mon Mothma, New Rebellion wrote:“But if Kueller destroys you, he scatters the Jedi, and becomes the strongest in the Force in the galaxy.”

3. MID NOVEL KUELLER


Kueller’s power continues to grow, fueled by the Pydyr death energies and his hatred.

New Rebellion wrote:The hatred had festered so deep in him that it fueled the dark side. No wonder he had grown so strong so quickly.

Kueller's power makes the planet Almania feel like a planetary dark side nexus to Luke.

New Rebellion wrote:The feeling grew stronger, both familiar and unfamiliar. The dark side was strong near Almania. Almost as if the entire planet were awash in it. Luke's mouth was dry. Perhaps he should go back to Coruscant and get help. Leia, Han, anyone. Going into this alone would be very destructive and difficult.

Luke even grows physically cold as he approaches Almania. 

New Rebellion wrote:As he got closer to Almania, he felt a distinct chill. He checked the temperature in the X-wing. It was normal. The chill emanated from his stomach, and wound itself around his heart. It was nothing like the chill that had blasted him when all those people died. And yet it was. 

Luke identifies the source of the power as having a malevolence unlike anyone he has felt since Palpatine.

New Rebellion wrote:But this wasn't Brakiss. That much he knew. This was someone else. Someone equally familiar.

And more powerful. Much more powerful to be felt from so far away.

The feeling had a malevolence in it, though, that was unfamiliar. Except around Emperor Palpatine. Luke had felt it then.

But this wasn't Palpatine. This was someone else. Someone Luke had known.

Luke states Kueller is more powerful than any living being he has felt since Palpatine. Note that this is likely in reference to Return of the Jedi Palpatine, as Bantam Books either differentiate Dark Empire Palpatine as instead the “reborn Emperor” or outright ignore the series, meaning the quote includes Joruus C’baoth and Gethzerion.

New Rebellion wrote:The presence had neared. It was strong in the dark side. He could feel the ripples, feel a power he hadn’t felt in a living being since he encountered the Emperor. 

Luke reaffirms Kueller is more powerful than Kyp Durron or Mara Jade.

New Rebellion wrote:Luke had never had a student that powerful, of that he was certain. Whoever it was became powerful after he had left the academy. 

Kueller blocks Luke's telepathic connection with Leia, which Luke notes to be an unprecedented occurrence.

New Rebellion wrote:But the connection broke; shattered as it never had before. He couldn’t feel her. He reached with his mind, feeling for her familiar sense, and she wasn’t there. It was as if someone had built a wall around his mind.

Leia?

She couldn’t be dead, could she? Her thought for him had been filled with concern, but he thought the concern was for him, not because she was in trouble. Leia? He sought out the children, and could feel them, squabbling happily on Anoth. He even got a sense of his students back on Yavin 4, but not of Leia. Or of anyone close to her. Something was blocking him. Something purposeful.

Kueller then swiftly defeats Luke. However, Luke was below “ten percent” of his full power, suffering severe burns and broken bones after having fallen far from his exploded X-Wing. Note that Kueller believed that, even though Luke was terribly injured, he would still be a “formidable opponent."

New Rebellion wrote:Slowly Kueller drew his lightsaber, the hiss filling the street. Its blade burned blue.

"I don't want to fight you, Dolph," Luke said.

"You won't be fighting Dolph," Kueller replied. He slashed at Luke. In one quick movement, Luke grabbed his lightsaber and blocked Kueller's swipe with his own blade. The electric clang of the sabers filled the air, sending sparks all around them. Each movement ripped at Luke's back, but he focused on the blade instead: parrying, defending, blocking, never really attacking. He would wait until Kueller was open before making his move.

Kueller hit at Luke's left, then his right, then his heart. But Luke kept blocking. Kueller pushed Luke backward, toward the house. Luke stumbled on his weak leg, and collapsed on the knee. A river of pain ran through his thigh. Kueller brought his lightsaber down onto Luke's shoulder, but Luke rolled away from it, his back burning as dirt from the road ground into his wounds.

He pushed himself up and swiped at Kueller, singeing his cape. The hum of lightsabers filled the air. Sweat ran down Luke's face. His strength was gone. He had gone through too much in the last few days. But he concentrated on Kueller's movements, lived for Kueller's movements, blocked them, anticipated them, and held his ground.

In a series of five rapid thrusts, Kueller moved Luke backward again. Luke parried, parried, parried, but couldn't keep his balance. His ankle was clearly broken and unable to support him. Kueller jabbed at Luke's left side. Luke swiveled to dodge, and Kueller jabbed again. Luke's ankle buckled, but he didn't fall. Kueller pushed closer, and knocked Luke's lightsaber from his hand.

Kueller held his blue blade beneath Luke's chin. Luke could feel its heat, smell its electric tang.

"I should kill you now," Kueller said.

Luke was breathing hard, but he felt no fear. He could call the lightsaber to him, and continue the battle, but somehow he knew that Kueller wasn't yet ready to kill him. 

The Essential Guide to Planets and Moons wrote:Luke Skywalker investigated Brakiss' droid-manufacturing plant on Telti and set out for Almania. His X-Wing had been sabotaged, though, and while he was passing the devastated moon of Pydyr, the X-Wing exploded. Skywalker bailed out and found himself stranded on Pydyr, with third-degree burns on his back and a shattered left ankle. His left leg had been weak ever since his ordeal aboard the Eye of Palpatine, and he found himself unable to move without assistance.

Kueller was unable to resist such a rich prize as a wounded Jedi Master. He traveled to Pydyr, where Skywalker recognized the skull-masked nightmare as Dolph, his former pupil. Skywalker tried to reach the core of goodness inside Kueller, but failed. The Almanian autocrat forced a lightsaber duel and easily defeated his hobbled opponent. 

The New Rebellion wrote:And after he reached her, he would go to Skywalker. Even though the man was injured, even though he had lost everything, he would still be a formidable opponent.

Luke believes he would need “all of his strength” to defeat Kueller.

New Rebellion wrote:He was resting, regaining his strength as best he could. The feeling of being watched was gone, for the moment, but he knew it would return. And it had something to do with Almania. After he let the food settle, he would question the house’s computer again. He was hoping it knew of a bacta tank or the Pydyrian equivalent. Anything to help him heal faster. He had to do more than Jedi practices. He knew that he would need all of his strength. 

Leia believes Kueller is more powerful than any living being she has encountered for many years, including Luke.

New Rebellion wrote:She wished she had the same certainty. This Kueller had more Force capability than anyone she had encountered in years. Except Exar Kun, and he had been a spirit. Kueller was alive. He was using these deaths to replenish his own well of hatred. The dark side ate people from within, but while it did so, it gave them much too much power.

He appeared to have more power than she had. More power than Luke.

4. END NOVEL KUELLER


Kueller’s power continues to grow, now further fueled by terrorist bombings across the Smuggler’s Run. Mara Jade likens this growth to “a droid hooked up to a power cable” and suggests he may soon become outright unbeatable.

New Rebellion wrote:She leaned against the wall. "Do you know how many people have died in the last few weeks, Solo?"

"Enough," he said, thinking of the Run.

"More than enough," she said. "Too many. Kueller's using them to build strength. He's absorbing the dark side like a droid hooked up to a power cable. If this continues, he may be unbeatable."

Mara Jade states Kueller’s power is comparable to “early days” Palpatine. This is likely in reference to Palpatine’s power-level between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope, as Mara Jade was taken and apprenticed by Palpatine as a child not long after 17 BBY. Note that Mara Jade has sensed the “supreme power” of Joruus C’baoth.

Mara Jade, New Rebellion wrote:“I haven’t felt power like this since Palpatine in the early days.”

Dark Force Rising wrote:Mara swallowed, shivering from the cold night wind and the colder feeling within her. Thrawn had said that C’baoth was insane, and she could indeed hear the unstable edge of madness in his voice. But there was far more to the man than just that. There was a hard steel behind the voice, ruthless and calculating, with a sense of both supreme power and supreme confidence underlying it all.

Mara Jade believes Kueller could become stronger than Palpatine and quicker. Note that Palpatine’s growth rate was immense. In six months, Darth Vader went from pleading with Luke to join him to “no longer daring to entertain thoughts of rebellion” because “the Emperor seemed more powerful than ever” and “omniscient.”

Mara Jade, New Rebellion wrote:“If this continues, Han, Kueller will be stronger than the Emperor ever was, and he’ll do it quicker.”

Vader: The Ultimate Guide wrote:Vader, who was all too aware of the Sith “rule of two” that mandated a single master and a single apprentice at any time, had his own designs on Luke. Palpatine’s omniscience, however, had changed the rules of engagement. Vader no longer dared to entertain thoughts of rebellion, not when the Emperor seemed more powerful than ever before."

Kueller then decisively defeats Luke in a climatic final duel. Open the spoiler tag to read their full fight:

Spoiler:
Luke dodged as Leia's lightsaber sailed in the air toward him, landing neatly in his fingers.

Immediately he ignited the blade and its reassuring hum echoed in the growing darkness.

"Ah," Kueller said. "So you have chosen to fight me. Careful, Master Skywalker. If you do so with the wrong attitude, you might join my side."

"I've fought better than you, Kueller," Luke said. The lightsaber felt odd in his hand. "And won."

"Years ago, Skywalker. You've become complacent." Kueller slashed at Luke. Luke parried, the electric clash of blades ringing in the night air.

Then Kueller whirled and blocked several bursts of blaster fire. Leia peeked out of the bay doors.

"Leave him alone, Kueller. It's me you want!" she yelled.

His death mask glowed from an internal light. It made his smile even more sinister than usual. "Actually, President, I want your entire family. Without them, there are no true Jedi." Luke inched closer. His blade was still out, still humming. He wanted Kueller to fight him, not Leia. Leia wasn't ready yet. "Actually, Kueller, there are dozens of Jedi now."

"But not Jedi Masters, Skywalker."

"There are more than you imagine," Luke said, thinking of Callista. She would provide quite a battle against Kueller, even without the Force.

Kueller turned to Luke, and Leia fired again. Without even looking at her, Kueller blocked the blaster shots. The shots flew harmlessly to the sides. Then her blaster rose in the air, and exploded a few feet above her head.

"Use another of those, President, and it will explode in your hand."

"You like explosions, don't you, Kueller?" she said. Luke suppressed a smile. She was trying to distract him so Luke could attack. But it wasn't that easy. Kueller had pushed Luke far enough that Luke's feelings were confused. He wasn't certain if he was going after Kueller out of anger or hatred, instead of in defense. That would only make Kueller stronger.

He seemed to be stronger anyway, giving credence to Luke's theory.

"Small explosions, President," Kueller said, his blade still locked with Luke's. "Large ones destroy wealth." Leia stepped out of the bay. She was unarmed. "Even if you kill us, Kueller, you won't get the rest of us. The explosives you put in the droids won't work. We shut the droids off."

"Did you, now?" Kueller's tone was mocking. Luke could feel the physical pressure Kueller was putting on the blade. They were locked in a battle of wills, their strength holding the blades together in a haze of light. "You managed to tell all the developed planets about the droids, President? Because if you didn't, then I will still get enough strength from one single order to defeat you all. " A chill ran through Luke. All those lives. All those billions of lives. They meant nothing more to Kueller than a breath of air, a surge of adrenaline, a swallow of food. Anger flowed through Luke, deep and fine and rich. He had created this monster. Luke, through his arrogance, had given Kueller all the tools he needed to destroy the entire galaxy. If Luke hadn't taught all his students about the dark side, if he hadn't warned them repeatedly and in detail about the quick and easy path, then Kueller would still be Dolph, not this hateful being who wore a death mask proudly and dealt in lives as a smuggler dealt in stolen goods.

Kueller turned toward Luke and grinned. His lightsaber broke free from the enmeshment and whooshed near Luke. Luke jumped aside, pain shivering through his back, and down his arms.

Kueller had suddenly gotten stronger.

"Kueller!" Leia shouted. She held another blaster. He turned his attention to her, and Luke thrust his blade toward Kueller's side, drawing blood before Kueller swirled away.

Easy blood. The lightsaber moved with a sureness Luke had never felt before.

Leia's blaster was turning red. She tossed it aside before it exploded, and rolled in the opposite direction.

Kueller had turned back to Luke, thrusting, parrying, thrusting, their sabers locked in a battle as loud and spark-filled as Luke's battle with Vader. Kueller's breath hissed through the mask, but it wasn't Vader's stentorian breathing that it imitated.

It was the Emperor's greedy gasping.

Luke staggered under Kueller's next blow, and barely managed to roll aside. His ankle kept buckling under him, but he forced himself to put weight on it. They had moved into the alleyway Luke had seen in that strange moment of vision. Stones littered the ground all around them, and the light only came through a small opening on either end. Luke could no longer see Leia.[hideedit]

Use your aggressive feelings, boy! Let the hate flow through you.

Kueller struck at him, his blow shattering a nearby rock. He was stronger. Much stronger. And his strength seemed to be increasing. Luke's arms were growing tired battling the power of Kueller's blade.

Then Kueller laughed, a gurgling, familiar laugh. The Emperor's laugh, the unamused choking of a slave to the dark side.

Fueled by hatred, anger, and fear.

Luke was making him stronger. Luke's response, his hatred, his own self-loathing at creating this thing, this student who had become a horror, was making the thing even stronger.

Kueller slammed his blade against Luke's, and the sparks lit the area all around them. Luke parried. Parried again. And again. He was trapped in a cycle of hatred and anger. If he fought, Kueller got stronger, and if he attacked, Kueller got stronger still.

Luke glanced at the mouth of the alley.

No Leia.

He was alone with this thing he had created. The rogue student. The Vader to his Ben.

Vader.

Ben.

Luke grinned. He suddenly knew what he had to do to break free.

---

It was Luke's name.

And she said it in a voice that Han had never heard before, but he knew what it meant.

It meant he was too late.

Her hands were useless, and Kueller was no longer listening to her arguments. He was watching Luke.

Luke, who looked like a man possessed.

Luke, who had always warned her not to give in to anger, was giving in to his.

And Kueller was smiling. He seemed to be growing taller, and broader, the aura of power around him so great that it made him seem invincible.

Then a look passed across Luke's face. It was a familiar look, but it wasn't his. She had seen it before.

On the day she met him, so many years ago.

She had seen that look the only time she had seen Obi-Wan Kenobi alive. He had been fighting Darth Vader, and then he smiled, and raised his lightsaber--and Vader cut him in half. His lightsaber's blade faded, the hilt spinning through the air before landing on his empty, steaming cloak.

Luke had said Obi-Wan believed that moment made him stronger, but really it had only made him dead.

Dead.

Leia stumbled a few steps forward. Luke didn't see her in the growing darkness. Kueller hesitated as Luke slowly raised his light-saber blade toward his face.

Just as Obi-Wan had.

Kueller smiled.

Just as Vader must have.

"Luuuuuuuuuuke!" Leia screamed as Kueller brought his lightsaber up, preparing to strike.

---

Luke was raising his lightsaber, his heart pounding. He was reaching out with the Force, going back to the place he had gone when he first fought Exar Kun. He would be out of his body but protected within the Force. Just as Ben had done in his battle with Darth Vader.

Luke would come back even stronger, and he would guide Leia to defeat Kueller.

Luke's lightsaber had reached a thirty-degree angle with his chin when he felt as if he were wrapped in a warm, soft blanket. He could still see through his eyes, but the rest of his senses were suddenly dim. He could no longer sense Leia or even Kueller.

His blade came up, and Kueller's blade swung back, but Luke couldn't leave his own body. He had lost the Force. It was gone. He was blind and numb without it.

He would die without it

Kueller's blade came down, and Luke limped out of the way only to back into the ruined tower wall. Kueller had him cornered. There was no place to go.

Luke was trapped, both inside, and out.

As highlighted in red, the battle is characterized as a dramatic step-up from Luke’s final duel with Vader. This time, now a far more powerful Luke again fights “like a man possessed” with anger and a “sureness he has never felt before.” Moreover, the battle's intensity is likened to "Luke's battle with Vader," but Kueller’s mannerisms are then explicitly differentiated from “Vader’s stentorian breathing” and likened to “the Emperor’s greedy gasping" repeatedly. 

As highlighted in blue, Kueller feeds off Luke’s hatred throughout the fight, progressively growing stronger. By its end, Leia believes Kueller is seemingly “invincible,” and Luke begins to “stagger” under his empowered blows. Luke eventually recognizes the only way he can win is if he lets himself die. This is all in contrast to mid-novel Kueller believing Luke at below “ten percent” his full power would still be a good fight, validating the earlier quotes emphasizing Kueller’s growth rate.

New Rebellion wrote:He was resting, regaining his strength as best he could. The feeling of being watched was gone, for the moment, but he knew it would return. And it had something to do with Almania. After he let the food settle, he would question the house’s computer again. He was hoping it knew of a bacta tank or the Pydyrian equivalent. Anything to help him heal faster. He had to do more than Jedi practices. He knew that he would need all of his strength.

Note that Luke is still not back to full power during this fight. He has a "splint around his left ankle" and "most of his skin" across his back is missing and instead covered in sores. However, as mentioned earlier, Luke actively tries to heal these injuries as best he can, and practices Jedi exercises in preparation for the fight. Moreover, being rage-amped likely significantly nullified these handicaps, as he fought "like a man possessed" and with a "sureness he has never felt before."

Kueller is only then defeated by the deus ex machina entry of a yslamari that nullifies his powers, allowing Leia to shoot him. 

5. CONCLUSION


Kueller fed off the deaths of millions and became stronger than any living being Luke or Leia have felt since Palpatine and comparable to Dark Times Palpatine to Mara Jade. Then, Kueller fed off Luke’s hatred and became all-but “invincible” and seemingly significantly more powerful than Luke.

Kueller is demonstrably in the higher echelons of power in the Star Wars mythos. Respect Kueller. Thank you.
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EmperorCaedus
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Kueller Respect Thread (2020) Empty Re: Kueller Respect Thread (2020)

on March 26th 2020, 5:19 pm
@ILS @BoD and others I've missed, feel free to leave your thoughts as you've previously expressed interest in Kueller.


Last edited by EmperorCaedus on March 26th 2020, 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
Zenwolf
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on March 26th 2020, 5:24 pm
Interesting, knew of him but didn’t know he was this powerful. Nice.
Azronger
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on March 26th 2020, 5:58 pm
Good thread, but I don't get how this guy is supposed to be knocking on Sheev's door, or much less be above him, as has been hyped.

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on March 26th 2020, 8:34 pm
Interesting character. I don't buy Mara Jade or Luke comparing him to the Emperor as Mara's sounds like exaggeration for the sake of tension and Luke doesn't consider him ~ Sidious in those quotes. I'm also not sure I buy the Vader no longer planning to betray the Emperor (there are Lucas quotes indicating otherwise), but great thread all the same. Very interesting character who should definitely be a top 15. 

I'd like to mention that the final fight you posted seems to have Luke pretty emotionally conflicted and hindered, though.
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on March 27th 2020, 12:46 am
significant thread pretty much a good read however some miscrepancies like the comparisions to sidious seems a bit taken out of proportions
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on March 27th 2020, 2:20 am
Nice. Is there any reason given for why Kueller seems to grow so much from being around death compared to other Sith?
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on March 27th 2020, 4:31 am
@ILS: Kueller found his parents have been killed by the Je'har regime. Kueller was "horrified and enraged" at the atrocities he witnessed, and went seeking vengeance for their deaths. He killed the entire Je'har regime and fed on their deaths, making him "far stronger". 

An example of Dark-siders feeding on their enemies deaths can be seen in Sidious. During Order 66 he fed on the deaths of the Jedi, making him far stronger. It's pretty much the same concept, and another avenue of comparison when concerning Sidious and Kueller.
Azronger
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on March 27th 2020, 5:39 am
@EmperorCaedus Source for Sidious outright feeding on the Jedi deaths?

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on March 27th 2020, 6:11 am
@Azronger

Kueller Respect Thread (2020) 23839a10

This is one of many sources on the matter. It's stated that "the ascendant dark side has made Sidious stronger", the ascendant dark side presumably gets stronger due to the deaths of the Jedi during Order 66. Not outright sure, but close enough.
HellfireUnit
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on March 27th 2020, 6:30 am
Well, that is not the same thing really. Besides, what is the source?
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on March 27th 2020, 8:16 am
I can only assume that Kueller's latent potential was astounding and he found a way to accelerate his growth through drawing on the anguish of death, bypassing the need for training as you would normally expect. Sidious was right in the Book of Sith that there is still "great potential" in the dark side for those Force users who are "forgotten" due to their seeming lack of midichlorians/potential.
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on March 27th 2020, 8:35 am
@ILS: Yes, exactly. Here is also some food for thought, in the Top 15 tourney, the metric to rank characters will be "the extent that Darth Malgus as of Decieved would need an amp to defeat them." Malgus is notoriously known for using his hate/rage/anger to fuel himself, but using his rage would only make Kueller "much stronger" as a result, meaning Malgus would need a Kueller+++ and-beyond amp to defeat him. I think considering that Kueller is already at least in the realm of RotJ Sheev, Kueller should definitely be ranked by the next round. What do you think?
Azronger
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on March 27th 2020, 8:59 am
@EmperorCaedus I'm well aware of that, but there's nothing confirming Sidious literally fed on the Jedi as they died. The junior novelization has him simply noting how the dark side is gaining strength with each Jedi passing.

@EmperorCaedus wrote:I think considering that Kueller is already at least in the realm of RotJ Sheev

I also see no basis for this.

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on March 27th 2020, 9:11 am
@Azronger: Ok, I concede that I used the wrong wording then, doesn't really change the point though. 

I also see no basis for this.

I've pointed out numerous times how Kueller's was compared to Sheev per numerous characters as early as mid-novel. This is before he has numerous power increases during their final duel, even becoming "invincible" compared to Skywalker.
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on March 27th 2020, 9:30 am
The only people who compare him are Mara and Luke. Mara is clearly exaggerating, and Luke only compares their mannerisms and behaviour, not their raw power.
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on March 27th 2020, 10:10 am
@BoD wrote:The only people who compare him are Mara and Luke. Mara is clearly exaggerating, and Luke only compares their mannerisms and behaviour, not their raw power.

I'm going to need something more substantial than "Mara was clearly exaggerating" because you've provided no evidence or substance for that. And even then, why would Mara be exaggerating if Palpatine was literally her dad and treated him with reverence, it's not something she would just say on a whim like that. Here is an instance of Sheev and Kueller being compared directly in power (it's included in the RT if you take a look).

The presence had neared. It was strong in the dark side. He could feel the ripples, feel a power he hadn’t felt in a living being since he encountered the Emperor.

Before you go on spewing nonsense on my thread, please at least read it before you comment
ScionOfSkywalker77
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on March 27th 2020, 12:16 pm
You sure this is your own work in any capacity EC? Can't say for certain but it feels entirely like the work of an enlightened goat and this ant I know, who has an odd fascination with the number 66.
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on March 27th 2020, 12:16 pm
lol
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on March 27th 2020, 12:21 pm
'm going to need something more substantial than "Mara was clearly exaggerating" because you've provided no evidence or substance for that. And even then, why would Mara be exaggerating if Palpatine was literally her dad and treated him with reverence, it's not something she would just say on a whim like that. 

Mara has also called Kun fodder to Vader and Sidious and believed ROTJ Luke was capable of killing ROTJ Sidious at the height of his power after only briefly meeting him. She's no more reliable a source than Mace Windu. 

If anything, treating someone with reverence means she's just going to say "he's really powerful like that other super powerful guy I know."
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on March 27th 2020, 12:41 pm
@BoD She... never called Kun fodder to Vader lol.
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on March 27th 2020, 12:42 pm
She did, actually. Said Vader would find him "amusingly quaint".
ScionOfSkywalker77
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on March 27th 2020, 12:47 pm
Nothing about the word "quaint" (Which means "attractively unusual or old-fashioned") indicates superiority.
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on March 27th 2020, 12:48 pm
Yeah, the quote in itself reveals its fallibility: if Mara "hadn't felt power like this since Palpatine in the early days," she evidently didn't have a measure of how powerful he became later on. @BoD makes a good point that she believed Luke and Vader to be capable of defeating him. Which then casts into doubt the veracity of the entire comparison, because if the Emperor never revealed the true depth of his strength to her later on, what guarantees he did so earlier either? Unless further evidence comes to light, I don't see a reason to believe the quote can be used to draw parity between Kueller and any iteration of the Emperor besides the extent to which Mara had been allowed to sense his power.

I know many these days have Vader in the dirt, the Kueller fans especially, so to make this succinct...

Mara's perception:

Kueller Respect Thread (2020) Maras_vision

Kueller Respect Thread (2020) Maras_vision_2

Reality:



Last edited by Azronger on March 27th 2020, 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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on March 27th 2020, 12:49 pm
@ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:Nothing about the word "quaint" (Which means "attract
ively unusual or old-fashioned") indicates superiority.
Quaint can also be used to show that you do not approve  of something, especially  an opinionbelief , or way of behaving , because it is strange  or old-fashioned :
"What a quaint idea !" she said, laughing  at him.

If you're finding an individual "quaint", you're finding it amusing or beneath you, like it's not worth your time.

Synonyms for "quaint" include: 





Kind of obvious what it's saying. If Kun is outdated, strange and backwards, Vader is amused by him, indicating he wouldn't even consider him a real threat. 
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