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Heathen
Heathen

Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad Empty Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad

on March 27th 2020, 9:41 pm
RoS novel wrote:"Palpatine had tried to create a dyad with Anakin, as his master had tried to create one with him. The Rule of Two, a Master always in desperate search of a yet more powerful apprentice, was a pale imitation, an unworthy but necessary successor to the older, purer doctrine of the Dyad."

@galan007 brought this quote to my attention.  Disney bought SW, things changed, but the Rule of Two seemed to remain a constant.  But now, holy f**k.  

1. What does this even mean?  So much to address here.  

2. We know ancient Sith are being made canon now by being mentioned in a reference book.  This is all we know as of yet.  Will any master and apprentice of yore now show to have had a dyad force bond?  If so, does this mean they possibly could have been stronger than the Banite Sith? .... ..... DOES THIS MEAN SHEEVITES MIGHT NEED TO ACCEPT SHEEV WASN'T AS POWERFUL AS WE WERE LED TO BELIEVE IN THE EU?!

LOLZ on the last bit, but call out for Mr. Sheevite himself, @azronger .

OK, one more question:

 3. Thoughts on why Sids couldn't establish a dyad bond with Ani?



FOR REFERENCE:

We know it's synergistic, but I just found this and think it's of interest:

Dyad (sociology) -
As an adjective, "dyadic" describes their interaction. ... A dyad can be unstable because both persons must cooperate to make it work. If one of the two fails to complete their duties, the group would fall apart.
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad Empty Re: Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad

on March 27th 2020, 9:48 pm
All the Dyad is, is from what I can tell and its explanation...it's just a Force Bond, the difference is, is that the new Canon seem to split Force Bond into two separate things and one of them being this Dyad thing. Or at least that's how @Galan007 seem to word it as over on KMF. The Bond was some like communication or sensing half and the Dyad was the power half...or whatever, compared to when it was just a singular thing with Force Bond in the previous lore.

In any case, it might be used to have two others perform crazy feats that they wouldn't be able to perform normally. Although given that it's stated within the RoS VD that when close together/in vicinity of one another, their powers are amplified and all that. This kinda just means that, when this pair is going up against some big bad threat or what have you, we know they aren't using their actual power that they have individually...but are using amplified power.

Or hell if they are just together at all, it seems like it's going to be that way. So now we're gonna have to look at more things than just their individual power, now we gonna look at this Dyad and try and figure out how everything works.

In all honesty, it just seems convoluted and I really don't think it needed to be.
Heathen
Heathen

Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad Empty Re: Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad

on March 27th 2020, 9:58 pm
@Zenwolf wrote:All the Dyad is, is from what I can tell and its explanation...it's just a Force Bond, the difference is, is that the new Canon seem to split Force Bond into two separate things and one of them being this Dyad thing. Or at least that's how @Galan007 seem to word it as over on KMF. The Bond was some like communication or sensing half and the Dyad was the power half...or whatever, compared to when it was just a singular thing with Force Bond in the previous lore.

In any case, it might be used to have two others perform crazy feats that they wouldn't be able to perform normally. Although given that it's stated within the RoS VD that when close together/in vicinity of one another, their powers are amplified and all that. This kinda just means that, when this pair is going up against some big bad threat or what have you, we know they aren't using their actual power that they have individually...but are using amplified power.

Or hell if they are just together at all, it seems like it's going to be that way. So now we're gonna have to look at more things than just their individual power, now we gonna look at this Dyad and try and figure out how everything works.

In all honesty, it just seems convoluted and I really don't think it needed to be.

I was hoping you'd add this from the other thread:  

@Zenwolf wrote:That is still just....ugh.  Also I like how this whole Dyad thing is introduced and now we're not gonna get to see anything from it since Ben is dead...like wtf? Or did Rey somehow get all the Dyadness?...


Last edited by Heathen on March 28th 2020, 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Rohirrim
Rohirrim

Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad Empty Re: Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad

on March 28th 2020, 7:00 am
Don't know whether this should be posted on your other thread rather than here, but alas:

The vision shifted. It was Luke, sitting crosslegged on the island of Ahch-To, trembling with effort as he projected himself onto the battlefield of Crait.
And yet another flash, this time of Leia in her jungle quarters, giving everything she had to send a final thought to Ben.
They were all manifestations of the same power. And now Rey would use it in her own way.
She lifted her saber as if to strike—
—and reached for the connection she shared with Ben. Showed him.
He acknowledged her, and Rey’s lips parted in surprise. It felt different now. The connection was… right. Good. Like coming home.
Ben was similarly stunned, and together, they wasted a precious moment reveling in this new sharing. This is how it should have been all along. A true dyad.
[...]
Rey watched her grandfather’s dawning horror as he finally realized his mistake, allowing Rey and Ben to come together. Their bond—refined in the fire of mutual searching, shared grief, rage and hate, but also of compassion and empathy—was the one thing he had not foreseen. 
-The Rise of Skywalker: Expanded Edition.

So maybe this dyad is only the more extreme manifestation of Force connections and projections? Last line made me think of that other thing the Emperor hadn't foreseen: the bond between Vader and Luke. Interestingly enough, there's this bit from Return of the Jedi:

Vader: I have felt him, my master.
Sidious: Strange that I have not.

Sidious had tried to form a dyad with Vader, but, unlike Rey and Ben (who shared "grief, rage and hate", "compassion and empathy"), perhaps they were too different to begin with:

Falling… falling… falling… down a massive shaft, the betrayal sharp and stinging, a figure high above, black clad and helmeted and shrinking fast. His very own apprentice had turned against him, the way he himself had turned against Plagueis… whose secret to immortality he had stolen.

Plagueis had not acted fast enough in his own moment of death. But Sidious, sensing the flickering light in his apprentice, had been ready for years.
-The Rise of Skywalker: Expanded Edition.

Perhaps Vader and Luke would have had greater success if they had delved into their bond further.
Galan007
Galan007

Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad Empty Re: Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad

on March 28th 2020, 11:41 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
In canon, there's a difference between Force bonds(ie. the connection between Luke and Vader, Luke and Leia, Leia and Ben, etc.), and proper Dyads in the Force.



Luke explained bonds a bit in Secrets of the Jedi. Funnily enough, he lists it under "Dark Force Abilities":
https://i.imgur.com/qdEOaXi.jpg

The bond itself is relatively benign; essentially just allowing the users to communicate across vast distances and sense each other's emotions/feelings... But they are also very exploitable. For example, during TCW S06, Palpatine used the bond between Yoda and Dooku to project an illusion into Yoda's mind to try and break him.



Dyad connections take the bond much further. They not only amp the users' powers/abilities, but can also inextricably teleport/materialize the users across galactic distances to have them occupy the same space, pass matter back and forth whilst physically existing in two different places, etc. Based on what we saw with Rey and Ben(who had barely even scratched the surface of this ability), I imagine that a perfected Dyad connection would allow for pretty absurd displays of power to take place... Which is likely why the Sith always tried to create Dyads with their apprentices first, and when that failed, they went with the less favorable Rule of Two out of necessity.
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Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad Empty Re: Rule of Two is small potatoes in canon - Thanks Dyad

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