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Heathen
Heathen

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 25th 2020, 7:11 pm
The Dyad is said to be synergistic, so it is more than ROS Ren's and ROS Rey's power combined.  However, how does it compare to Snoke?  Is it even a power to consider?
Galan007
Galan007

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 25th 2020, 7:55 pm
Well, there's this reference from the RoS novelization...

"Kylo Ren brought down a mental curtain to cut off their connection. Just in time, for he could hardly contain his sense of triumph.
The Emperor was terrified of Rey. Of her power. Once she accepted her destiny as part of their dyad, they would be unstoppable."
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 25th 2020, 8:23 pm
@Galan007 wrote:Well, there's this reference from the RoS novelization...

"Kylo Ren brought down a mental curtain to cut off their connection. Just in time, for he could hardly contain his sense of triumph.
The Emperor was terrified of Rey. Of her power. Once she accepted her destiny as part of their dyad, they would be unstoppable."

Sounds like the flowery wording of a Force Bond between Master and Student.
Heathen
Heathen

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 25th 2020, 8:46 pm
@Zenwolf wrote:
@Galan007 wrote:Well, there's this reference from the RoS novelization...

"Kylo Ren brought down a mental curtain to cut off their connection. Just in time, for he could hardly contain his sense of triumph.
The Emperor was terrified of Rey. Of her power. Once she accepted her destiny as part of their dyad, they would be unstoppable."

Sounds like the flowery wording of a Force Bond between Master and Student.


@Zenwolf
How so?  
1. How does a bond word anything?
2. Is this the narrator's pov, a personal pov, a conversation?  Maybe this is better directed to @galan007.
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 25th 2020, 9:45 pm
@Heathen wrote:
@Zenwolf wrote:
@Galan007 wrote:Well, there's this reference from the RoS novelization...

"Kylo Ren brought down a mental curtain to cut off their connection. Just in time, for he could hardly contain his sense of triumph.
The Emperor was terrified of Rey. Of her power. Once she accepted her destiny as part of their dyad, they would be unstoppable."

Sounds like the flowery wording of a Force Bond between Master and Student.


@Zenwolf
How so?  
1. How does a bond word anything?
2. Is this the narrator's pov, a personal pov, a conversation?  Maybe this is better directed to @galan007.

It's an expression, not saying the bond is actually wording anything. Just meaning like it's exaggerating the capabilities.
Heathen
Heathen

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 25th 2020, 10:05 pm
@Zenwolf wrote:
@Heathen wrote:
@Zenwolf wrote:
@Galan007 wrote:Well, there's this reference from the RoS novelization...

"Kylo Ren brought down a mental curtain to cut off their connection. Just in time, for he could hardly contain his sense of triumph.
The Emperor was terrified of Rey. Of her power. Once she accepted her destiny as part of their dyad, they would be unstoppable."

Sounds like the flowery wording of a Force Bond between Master and Student.


@Zenwolf
How so?  
1. How does a bond word anything?
2. Is this the narrator's pov, a personal pov, a conversation?  Maybe this is better directed to @galan007.

It's an expression, not saying the bond is actually wording anything. Just meaning like it's exaggerating the capabilities.
@zenwolf no negativity here, but how do you pick up exaggeration here?  I mean this is a scene where Sidious destroys an enormous number of ships with lightning and Rey channels the power of all the Jedi who had ever lived.
BoD
BoD
Level Five
Level Five

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 25th 2020, 10:14 pm
In terms of actual power, it's basically the combining of two being's power. Sidious wanted to do it with Vader, presumably to steal his power for himself.
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 25th 2020, 10:20 pm
@Heathen wrote:

@zenwolf no negativity here, but how do you pick up exaggeration here?  I mean this is a scene where Sidious destroys an enormous number of ships with lightning and Rey channels the power of all the Jedi who had ever lived.

Because when Kylo and Rey were both together, they weren't unstoppable since Sidious completely stomped them and absorbed their power. If they were unstoppable, that wouldn't have happened. Hence it's just flowery wording, it's still powerful, but it's not unstoppable power.
> Korriban
> Korriban
Level One
Level One

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 25th 2020, 10:31 pm
@BoD wrote:In terms of actual power, it's basically the combining of two being's power. Sidious wanted to do it with Vader, presumably to steal his power for himself.

He talks about that in LOTS and the Vader comics: "we will rule as ONE" 

That takes a very different meaning now
Galan007
Galan007

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 26th 2020, 7:14 am
@Heathen wrote:2. Is this the narrator's pov, a personal pov, a conversation?  Maybe this is better directed to @galan007.
That particular excerpt is from Kylo's POV.


However, the RoS VD states that Rey and Kylo's abilities were "mirroring and amplifying each other" as their Force-bond strengthened:
https://i.imgur.com/c8XSFIN.jpg

So the Dyad definitely amped them. How *much* it amped them is the real question, and one that will likely never be answered. Also keep in mind that Rey and Kylo had barely even scratched the surface of the Dyad's potential. Up until the last few minutes of the film, their connections and whatnot were happening spontaneously/naturally... They didn't have any real control over it.
Heathen
Heathen

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 26th 2020, 5:40 pm
@Galan007 wrote:
@Heathen wrote:2. Is this the narrator's pov, a personal pov, a conversation?  Maybe this is better directed to @galan007.
That particular excerpt is from Kylo's POV.


However, the RoS VD states that Rey and Kylo's abilities were "mirroring and amplifying each other" as their Force-bond strengthened:
https://i.imgur.com/c8XSFIN.jpg

So the Dyad definitely amped them. How *much* it amped them is the real question, and one that will likely never be answered. Also keep in mind that Rey and Kylo had barely even scratched the surface of the Dyad's potential. Up until the last few minutes of the film, their connections and whatnot were happening spontaneously/naturally... They didn't have any real control over it.
It doesn't read as though it is Kylo's pov.  He is referred to in the third person, or have I missed something, @galan007 ?

Yeah, I do know the dyad is synergistic. This is what makes it so strong.  My big question was about Rey and Ren not being able to kill Snoke together, but they probably didn't understand the dyad.  It wasn't until Snoke was dead and they fought the guards together that they realized they could connect in that way as well...IIRC.  ???   I wasn't sure if they would be strong enough even afterward for Sidious, but from what I understand, they each grew in power, a lot, and their bond grew stronger between TLJ and ROS.  Having control of power doesn't mean the power isn't there, though.  Would this alter how much power they had?
Heathen
Heathen

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 26th 2020, 6:02 pm
@Zenwolf wrote:
@Heathen wrote:

@zenwolf no negativity here, but how do you pick up exaggeration here?  I mean this is a scene where Sidious destroys an enormous number of ships with lightning and Rey channels the power of all the Jedi who had ever lived.

Because when Kylo and Rey were both together, they weren't unstoppable since Sidious completely stomped them and absorbed their power. If they were unstoppable, that wouldn't have happened. Hence it's just flowery wording, it's still powerful, but it's not unstoppable power.
i take this as rots anakin being "undefeatable"   he has that power and ability, but things happen. 

also, i agree with galan in that they just weren't experienced enough working together yet.  from the ros visual dictionary's quote, which galan posted a link to, their power increases the more they are together.  they split up after their fight against the guards and didn't meet again until close to when they faced sidious...iirc.
Galan007
Galan007

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

on March 26th 2020, 9:00 pm
@Heathen wrote:It doesn't read as though it is Kylo's pov.  He is referred to in the third person, or have I missed something, @galan007 ?

Yeah, I do know the dyad is synergistic. This is what makes it so strong.  My big question was about Rey and Ren not being able to kill Snoke together, but they probably didn't understand the dyad.  It wasn't until Snoke was dead and they fought the guards together that they realized they could connect in that way as well...IIRC.  ???   I wasn't sure if they would be strong enough even afterward for Sidious, but from what I understand, they each grew in power, a lot, and their bond grew stronger between TLJ and ROS.  Having control of power doesn't mean the power isn't there, though.  Would this alter how much power they had?

It reads as Kylo's perspective/thoughts, imo. Here's a bit more dialogue for context:
“I know where she’s going,” Kylo said, shielding his thoughts. “She’ll never be a Jedi.”

The Emperor’s voice was like thunder in his head. “Make sure of it,” he said. “Kill her!”

Kylo Ren brought down a mental curtain to cut off their connection. Just in time, for he could hardly contain his sense of triumph. The Emperor was terrified of Rey. Of her power. Once she accepted her destiny as part of their dyad, they would be unstoppable.

I think it has more to do with the fact that they had no real comprehension/control of the Dyad at all, until the crescendo of RoS(specifically from the time Ben was fighting the KoR and Rey was fighting the Guards, up to the point where Palpatine absorbed their power... Literally just a few minutes.)

Aside from that, their Dyad connection seemed to be completely random and spontaneous... Though the implication is that the Dyad was amplifying their powers while they were fighting in the same vicinity(and presumably with a unified cause), but there's ultimately very little info/insight regarding the full extent of power a Dyad offers, so it's hard to say with any kind of certainty.

However, the power gleaned from a fully realized Dyad must be exceedingly immense, given that even the Sith aspired to create Dyads between Master and apprentice first(#DoctrineOfTheDyad), and when that didn't work they adopted the Rule of Two out of necessity. /shrug
Heathen
Heathen

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

Yesterday at 6:11 pm
@Galan007 wrote:


However, the power gleaned from a fully realized Dyad must be exceedingly immense, given that even the Sith aspired to create Dyads between Master and apprentice first(#DoctrineOfTheDyad), and when that didn't work they adopted the Rule of Two out of necessity. /shrug

 @galan007  I caught this last night.  Is this book rewriting the history  of the Rule of Two?
Galan007
Galan007

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Yesterday at 8:15 pm
@Heathen wrote:@galan007  I caught this last night.  Is this book rewriting the history  of the Rule of Two?

Pretty much.

"Palpatine had tried to create a dyad with Anakin, as his master had tried to create one with him. The Rule of Two, a Master always in desperate search of a yet more powerful apprentice, was a pale imitation, an unworthy but necessary successor to the older, purer doctrine of the Dyad."
Heathen
Heathen

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

Yesterday at 9:15 pm
@Galan007 wrote:
@Heathen wrote:@galan007  I caught this last night.  Is this book rewriting the history  of the Rule of Two?

Pretty much.

"Palpatine had tried to create a dyad with Anakin, as his master had tried to create one with him. The Rule of Two, a Master always in desperate search of a yet more powerful apprentice, was a pale imitation, an unworthy but necessary successor to the older, purer doctrine of the Dyad."

Oh, daaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng.

This alone needs to be addressed.  Scheisse.
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

Yesterday at 9:33 pm
That is still just....ugh.

Also I like how this whole Dyad thing is introduced and now we're not gonna get to see anything from it since Ben is dead...like wtf? Or did Rey somehow get all the Dyadness?...
Heathen
Heathen

How powerful is the Dyad? Empty Re: How powerful is the Dyad?

Yesterday at 9:37 pm
@Zenwolf wrote:That is still just....ugh.

Also I like how this whole Dyad thing is introduced and now we're not gonna get to see anything from it since Ben is dead...like wtf? Or did Rey somehow get all the Dyadness?...
I'm making a new thread for Dyad, @zenwolf.  Add this on it.  Good point.    I'll tag you.  Gimme a couple mins.
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