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TenebrousWay
TenebrousWay

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 6:42 pm
It looks like Revan is hit on the elbow/forearm and not on the head.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 6:44 pm
Per the KOTORCG, the Mandalorian Neo-Crusaders use "Neo-Crusader light armor," not beskar armor.

Also, if you look at the gif again, the lightsaber blade is striking his neck-area, not his mask.

Check out this post detailing Revan performing similar and better tanking feats anyway:

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t2298p275-top-fifteen-tournament-8-darth-plagueis#46873
Geistalt
Geistalt

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 6:48 pm
Even if Revan tanked the explosion of the Temple of Sacrifice's mechanical fetus, the strike team (and especially the melee fighters, the HoT and the Empire's Wrath) did so more closely.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 6:50 pm
On a serious note, it's not a Revan only feat. Everyone of note has done it in trailers:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Scree102

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Scree103

Even fodder knights have done it in trailers.

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Scree104

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Scree105
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 6:54 pm
@BOD: Those trailers are in-game footage of class abilities. The SOR trailer is a scripted cinematic event, like a cutscene.

@Geistalt wrote:Even if Revan tanked the explosion of the Temple of Sacrifice's mechanical fetus, the strike team (and especially the melee fighters, the HoT and the Empire's Wrath) did so more closely.

I explained this point earlier on. To quote:

The strike team was made up of "a large strike team of elite heroes" handpicked by the Hero, and all of them besides the Hero could have died. Moreover, spirit Revan was literally resurrecting strike team members anyway--"target has been recently resurrected by an outside force"--so even the Hero could have died and been resurrected.

There's two other tanking feats too, including one where Revan is on the ground and tanking lightsaber hits from the strike team. ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 1289255181


Last edited by DarthAnt66 on March 9th 2020, 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Geistalt
Geistalt

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 6:57 pm
That's because they're depicting those characters outside of cutscenes, and in the game when you're in combat of course you're not going to dismember or cut through people (it'd make the battle too short)
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 6:58 pm
 Those trailers are in-game footage of class abilities. The SOR trailer is a scripted cinematic event, like a cutscene.

Interesting, because the same trailer has Revan fighting evenly against the HoT and Satele.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
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★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 6:59 pm
BoD wrote:
 Those trailers are in-game footage of class abilities. The SOR trailer is a scripted cinematic event, like a cutscene.

Interesting, because the same trailer has Revan fighting evenly against the HoT and Satele.

Two seconds of footage unfortunately can't tell us the relative standing of Revan to HOT and Satele. ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 1289255181
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 7:03 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:
BoD wrote:
 Those trailers are in-game footage of class abilities. The SOR trailer is a scripted cinematic event, like a cutscene.

Interesting, because the same trailer has Revan fighting evenly against the HoT and Satele.

Two seconds of footage unfortunately can't tell us the relative standing of Revan to HOT and Satele. ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 1289255181
And yet he can apparently ragdoll both of them in combat, yet can't dispatch or knock away the HoT or Satele in that time. 

As for those scenes not being scripted:

https://youtu.be/HTCDPhuQYYg?t=68

You can't do this in the game. The closest to it is Force kick, which definitely does not send your opponent flying. Quite a few examples of them performing scripted events that aren't in-game in the trailers, actually.
Ziggy
Ziggy

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 7:09 pm
Lomi Plo Exar Koon
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 7:12 pm
@BOD: It is not my position that Revan can instantly ragdoll the Hero or Satele whenever he wants. 

Some SWTOR ability animations have changed (and that trailer was pre-launch) and all of the footage was openly from gameplay and distinct from cutscenes.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Three
Level Three

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 7:18 pm
I vote Revan
Praxis
Praxis
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 7:33 pm
Message reputation : 100% (3 votes)
I vote for the Outlander.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator
Moderator

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 8:21 pm
I'm interested in hearing what the Outlander has going for him over Revan

_________________
★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Sheev_sig_3
Geistalt
Geistalt

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 8:42 pm
Stopping lightsabers with TK, enduring the Machine Core's explosion, resisting Valkorion's TP (it's implied that even Revan was mentally influenced by Vitiate into becoming a madman hellbent on destroying the Sith species and then the Emperor, despite being shielded from him by the Exile).
Zenwolf
Zenwolf
Level One
Level One

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 9:13 pm
@Geistalt wrote:Stopping lightsabers with TK

When was this?
Geistalt
Geistalt

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 9:17 pm
The Arcann fight in KotFE.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 9:26 pm
That was Valkorion, not the Outlander.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level Two
Level Two

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 9th 2020, 9:36 pm
Outlander for now on
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 10th 2020, 1:27 am
EXAR KUN

This will be a massive overhaul of my previous argument.

First of all, the actual power levels of Exar Kun's domain are considerably vast:

Exhibit A: Tott Doneeta

Tott Doneeta manages to hold off a Ryloth heat storm with the Force:

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These heat storms have speeds of 500 kilometers an hour and a temperature of 300 degrees celcius:

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These things were immense:

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They can reduce a person to dust before they can collapse:

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Exhibit B: Nomi SunriderAleema Keto and her weaker cousin Satal, had such power as they began to dabble in Sith magicks, that they caused a dark side nexus due to this:

Nomi Sunrider, Tales of the Jedi Audio Drama wrote:"This place is thick with the dark side."

The nexus caused by the Ketos drowns out the presence of Ulic Qel-Droma:

Tales of the Jedi wrote:Reaching out to Ulic with the Force, she feels nothing... except the dark power that now inhabits the great iron citadel of the Krath.

Despite this power, Nomi destroys Aleema in telepathy, whether she's attacking or defending:

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Despite all of this power, Tott and Nomi, with the aid of Oss Willum, Cay Qel-Droma and Qrrrl, are incapable of subduing Ulic Qel-Droma who focuses his power through an amulet, attacking omnidirectionally with Force lightning and telekinesis:

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Ulic famously stalemated Exar Kun, and Kun by this point had already displayed galactic scale feats:

The Essential Guide to Characters wrote:Nadd offered Kun a way to live, and to repair his broken body: if he embraced the dark side, he would be healed. The betrayal of light was not an easy one for Kun, but the desire to live was stronger. He accepted the dark side, his screams reaching out across the galaxy and creating ripples in the Force.
The New Essential Chronology wrote:Exar Kun let out a tremendous shriek that echoed across the galaxy, calling in despair upon Master Vodo, whom he had abandoned.

Kun has already replaced Nadd as a 'great power' in the galaxy:

Vodo Siosk-Baas, Tales of the Jedi wrote:"I sense a disturbance in the Force. As if one great power has fallen and another has risen in its place."

And is further stated to be the only one since Ragnos to be worthy of his power and the Dark Lord title:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS3rkRW0SMx4p-2uy0RXxFHUGIOedQGVYk7_JVcgnnc2-mlUGG0

Star Wars Databank wrote:An ancient Sith spirit declared the two warriors as worthy of the Sith heritage.

This means all of the following feats are already far beneath Exar Kun:

Tales of the Jedi Companion wrote:King Ommin rose to power in the same manner as his ancestors of the last three centuries: by dominating the populace of Onderon with the dark side.

Arca Jeth, Tales of the Jedi Audio Drama wrote:"Dark Side energy, the strongest I've ever felt."

Star Wars Databank wrote:The Jedi continued to learn more of Iziz's dark secrets. They learned it was under the pall of the dark side. Four hundred years earlier, a Sith student named Freedon Nadd brought the power of the dark side to Onderon, and his descendents included King Ommin and Queen Amanoa, whose forms were riddled with the dark side.

Ulic disappears for years after joining Exar Kun, where he gains tremendous power in the dark side:

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Ulic was then confronted by another fallen Jedi, Exar Kun. As they engaged in a lightsaber battle, the Sith Amulets both Jedi wore began to glow, and they were visited by spirits of the Ancient Sith Lords who told them that Kun was the new Dark Lord of the Sith and Qel-Droma his first assistant. Years later, Ulic reappeared with tremendous dark side powers and set out to plunder and destroy large parts of the galaxy with a large and bloodthirsty army serving alongside Exar Kun.

Ulic then attacks Coruscant, but when faced with Vodo Siosk-Baas, his weapon is telekinetically torn from his grasp and his connection to the Force blocked:

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NOTE: I consider this a majority Vodo Siosk-Baas feat because the Jedi with him couldn't subdue Ulic alone, and almost died trying, and that was years before Ulic had grown far more powerful. Furthermore, it's said that Ulic would become equal to not more powerful than, the mightiest Jedi masters of the time; which Vodo is one of, indicating Ulic became equal to Vodo after Coruscant:

The Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:Nadd foretold that Ulic would one day be a great Sith Lord, equal to the mightiest Jedi masters.

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With Ulic captured and in chains, Exar Kun arrives at his trial in the Senate where Kun hypnotises the entire Senate and maintains that whilst defeating Vodo, who is stated to stand 'no chance' against Kun's 'deep reserve of dark side power':

Power of the Jedi Sourcebook wrote:Ulic’s trial was interrupted by Exar Kun, who met his former Master face to face for the first time since his long descent into darkness. The two fought, and Vodo-Siosk Baas was no match for Exar Kun’s double-bladed lightsaber and deep reserve of dark side power. Vodo-Siosk perished, slain by his former apprentice.

After this, Exar Kun initially met his match against Ood Bnar, who taps the power of a Force nexus so strong it's implied that it prevents the utter and total destruction of the planet:

Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith wrote:Ood resists Kun's attempts to steal the lightsabers by undergoing a final metamorphosis, plunging roots into the ground and driving Kun back with a blast of power drawn from the depths of Ossus.

Unlikely Survival of Ossus Codex Entry wrote:Ossus still bears the scars of the Cron Supernova: its surface is a seared wasteland of rock and sand. But even this degree of desolation is shockingly mild; that the planet was not rendered into a charred ball of molten rock, or even obliterated completely, is nothing short of miraculous.
Little academic work has been put forward to explain this unlikely survival; only conjecture. The initial cause of the supernova was unnatural; perhaps this explains the unnatural results? Ossus was a stronghold of the Jedi; does the inherent life force of such a place make it more resistant to destruction?

Kun leaves Ossus with a wealth of artifacts and knowledge, stated to be more than he could ever need, and thus becomes far more powerful than any Jedi of the time, which includes Ood:

Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith wrote:Looking at all the precious artifacts his Massassi have stolen, Exar Kun knows he has more wealth and knowledge than he could ever use.

The Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:She discovers the accounts of the Great Sith War, and learns that though Kun was far more powerful than any one other Jedi of the time, a combined force had defeated him.

Ood Bnar, of course, was capable of summoning the same power, taking out Luke Skywalker and disintegrating Sedriss XL; a serious contender for Luke, at once:

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The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Several thousand years later on the planet Ossus, Bnar reawakened to help save Jem Ysanna, a young woman with powers in the Force. He ultimately sacrificed himself to destroy the evil Imperial Military Executor Sedriss.
...
The Executor was destroyed by the power of an ancient Jedi, Ood Bnar.

Noting that at this point, Executor Sedriss is even closer to Darth Vader's power than Jerec was, who already rivalled Vader's power:

Handbook 3 wrote:Perhaps the strongest disciple of Palpatine after Darth Vader, Executor Sedriss remained loyal to the Emperor after the death of his clone over the Rebel's Pinnacle Base.

Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II Game Manual wrote:His [Jerec's] embrace of the Force's dark side gives him powers that rival Vader's.

Exar Kun himself at this point is the most powerful Sith in history:

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Kun, Exar. Once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith, he was responsible for the deaths of millions four millennia before the rise of the Empire.

Given Kun's power at this point naturally dwarfs that of any of the preceding Sith, he also scales majorly over the Sith Council who had already bestowed their power on Kun many years ago:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Wk7ebx10

This means that he scales above the same spirits who'd attacked, bullied and gravely injured ANH Darth Sidious, per Sheev's own admission:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 2017-110

Prime Kun is also obviously more powerful than Marka Ragnos, who was more powerful than Darth Nihilus per Kreia who not only taught Nihilus the technique and how to consume worlds with it but had studied the Telos IV holocron stash and other vast sources such as the Trayus Academy knowledge which per Chris Avellone provides her with accurate estimations of the power of the ancient Sith:

Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:"The blind seer, her master harnessed this technique and he is rapidly approaching the height of its power. I fear he may even rival some of the ancient Sith."

Kreia herself admits Nihilus is an entire magnitude beyond her in power:

Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:“One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."

Kreia herself was capable of literally one-shotting the entire Jedi Council:

SWTOR Codex Entry wrote:Part of Kreia’s plan involved decimating the Jedi Order. On Dantooine, Kreia severed Masters Vrook Lmar, Kavar, and Zez-Kai Ell from the Force, killing them within the Jedi Enclave.

Each of those masters were around the power of an amped Bastila Shan:

Bastila Shan, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"The Dark Side has made me stronger than I ever was before! I have a greater command of the Force than all but the most powerful Jedi masters."

Bastila Shan was capable of holding her own willpower against all of the corruptive apparatus; including torture by Force lightning, of Darth Malak for an entire week before succumbing:

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Furthermore, Kun's effects on the galaxy and cosmos at this point represented a 'torrent' of the dark side which only ended with him being sealed within the Temple of Yavin IV:

Exar Kun, Star Wars Databank wrote:Before Vader, before Maul, before Sidious... there was a Dark Lord of the Sith that cast a shadow of terror and destruction across the galaxy. The ancient forces of the Republic and the Jedi banded together to stop the torrent of the dark side, and bring an end to Exar Kun's rule.

He used the life essence of every Massassi to bind himself to the temple:

Exar Kun, Dark Apprentice wrote:"When the Jedi combined their might and came here to this moon to fight me, they unleashed such power that I had to drain every last one of the Massassi just to trap my spirit within these temples-to survive so that I could one day come back."

His power is 'extinguished' as he escapes death:

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His return from slumber and the later return of his predecessor in Marka Ragnos, caused the Force itself to 'seethe':

Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties, starwars.com wrote:Seven years after the Battle of Endor, when Luke Skywalker established an academy with the intention of rebuilding the Jedi Order, the spirit of the ancient Sith Lord Exar Kun returned to prevent the Jedi Brotherhood's resurrection. Three short years later, another Sith daemon, this time the Dark Lord Marka Ragnos, also was called back from the realm of Chaos to terrorize the galaxy. This latter event was not isolated. Some of the disciples of Ragnos had formerly been aligned with the dark sider Hethrir and his Empire Reborn, which had been defeated only a short time prior. Worse, soon after the encounter with Ragnos, the lifeless body of the reformed Sith acolyte Flint was found on Belderone: an ancient Jedi lightsaber in hand, a cauterized hole through his throat.
The Force seethed with the suggestion of a grand, sinister scheme.

Exar Kun's spirit, factually far weaker than he was in his living prime, was capable by itself of defeating Master Luke:

Champions of the Force wrote:Afraid to challenge the dark power that had been sufficient to warp other students and defeat Master Skywalker.

Who by this point is in his prime:

Champions of the Force wrote:Luke clapped him on the back and smiled with dark-ringed eyes that shone with an inner brightness stronger than ever before. As he conquered each seemingly insurmountable obstacle, Luke's Jedi powers grew greater and greater- but, like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda, a Jedi Master learned to use his powers even less, relying on wits instead of showmanship.

I, Jedi wrote:When we had met before I had felt power in him, but now, after his experiences with the Emperor Reborn, his power had been redoubled. Physically he looked a bit haggard and worn, with the flesh around his eyes having tightened and wrinkles appearing at their corners. I knew we were the same age chronologically, but in experience he far surpassed me.

By now, Exar Kun's spiritual power is quite clearly beyond Kyp Durron in power, both via statements and is demonstratably true:

The New Essential Guide to Characters wrote:He opened himself to the spirit of the Sith Lord Exar Kun, convincing himself that Kun's power could be harnessed for noble pursuits. Instead, the dark side energies trampled over Durron's naïvité.

I, Jedi wrote:"And who will stop me?" I hesitated because Kyp's words seemed to echo within themselves, we were not alone, which meant Kyp's mentor had come to aid his apprentice.

"I will, if you make it necessary." An ancient sneer of contempt twisted Kyp's features.

"Puny Jedi, you are of no concern to me." Even though I had braced myself for another attack, it did no good. Kyp's previous blows were like light breezes compared to this full-on gale. I slammed back into the wall with teeth rattling-impact.

Dark Apprentice wrote:He reached out with his mind, following the paths of the Force that led to every object in the universe, drawing power from the cosmic focal point of the Massassi temple. He searched, sending his thoughts like a probe deep into the storm systems of the gas giant. Behind him, Kyp felt the black-ice power of Exar Kun arise, tapping into him and reinforcing his abilities. His own feeble exploratory touch suddenly plunged forward like a blaster bolt. Kyp felt larger, a part of the jungle moon, then a part of the entire planetary system, until he burrowed into the heart of the gas giant itself.

Dark Apprentice wrote:His best students were going sour, getting impatient, trying to push the limits of their abilities. But he had sensed a greater, deeper menace that vibrated within the very stones of the Great Temple itself. . . evil, and well hidden.

Exar Kun even augments and empowers Kyp Durron so as to reach his full potential:

Dark Apprentice wrote:Kyp felt his skin tingling with barely contained power,

****

Against the full might of Kyp Durron

Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:Over a number of weeks, Kun slowly bends Kyp to his will, and begins to augment his power. He grows very powerful on Kyp's hate, and soon his hold on Kyp is so complete that he can send Kyp beyond the planet to do his will and still retain control over his subject. Ultimately, he has Kyp return to Yavin Four and helps him reclaim the Sun Crusher. He also bolsters Kyp's talents to allow him to defeat Luke and place him in a coma.



Exar Kun's knowledge died with him:

Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:The dark knowledge of the Sith teachings died with Kun, it is extremely unlikely that any records survive, either on Yavin IV or elsewhere.

His techniques were indefensible when unleashed on Luke Skywalker:

Dark Apprentice wrote:Luke dropped his useless lightsaber and crouched. His every muscle suddenly coiled and tensed. He rallied all the powers of the Force around him, seeking any defensive tactic.

Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him—but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly. Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi Master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail.

Luke's knowledge at this point is great:

Dark Empire Endnotes wrote:Luke is, perhaps, learning more about the Dark Side than he wants to know. The more the Emperor reveals, the more Luke is repulsed. The sheer depravity of the man would shake the soul of the strongest Jedi.

But Luke must continually remind himself of his vow to conquer the Dark Side from within.

Luke's father understood these secrets, these powers, and willingly used them to crush and enslave multitudes of Galactic citizens.

--

Satisfied that his "young apprentice" has crossed the threshold from which there is no returning, the Emperor unveils his teaching, and Luke is given the knowledge that was bestowed on his father before him!

Vader's knowledge was immense, encompassing the collective Banite knowledge, the Jedi Temple Vault and more:

Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side wrote:Darth Bane's Rule of Two was a keystone of the Sith Order for centuries. The Battle of Ruusan, nearly a millennium ago, would have ended the Sith Order had Darth Bane not reconstituted it as a diarchy operating from the shadows. His writings became part of the Sith Archives passed down from master to apprentice for generations.

Episode 1: Scrapbook wrote:For a millennium, the Sith maintained the order in secrecy, passing down their evil heritage. As they gained knowledge of the dark side of the Force, their powers increased with each generation.

Revenge of the Sith wrote:The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new.

Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader wrote:Black armorweave and feats of strength weren't the only things that distinguished Darth Vader from Anakin Skywalker. Where Anakin had had limited access to the Jedi Temple data room, Vader–even light-years from Coruscant–could peruse any data he wished, including archival records, ancient texts, and holocrons fashioned by past Masters.

The Clone Wars Season 2: Holocron Heist wrote:"Beyond this door lies the Holocron Vault. The Holocrons contain the most closely guarded secrets of the Jedi Order."

Darth Plagueis wrote:The tour began in the outermost rooms, which were appointed with furnishings and objects of art of the highest quality, gathered from all sectors of the galaxy. But Plagueis was neither as acquisitive as a Neimoidian nor as ostentatious as a Hutt; and so the ornamented chambers quickly gave way to data-gathering rooms crowded with audio-vid receivers and HoloNet projectors; and then to galleries filled to overflowing with ancient documents and tomes, recorded on media ranging from tree trunk parchment through flimsiplast to storage crystal and holocron. The Muuns were said to abhor literature and to loathe keeping records of anything other than loan notices, actuarial tables, and legal writs, and yet Plagueis was guardian of the one of the finest libraries to be found anywhere outside Obroa-skai or the Jedi Temple on Coruscant.

--

Exiting the turbolift, the first thing to catch Sidious’s eye was the library: rack after rack of texts, scrolls, disks, and holocrons—all the data he had been craving since his apprenticeship began. He ran his hands lovingly over the shelves but barely had time to revel in his excitement when 11-4D ushered him onto a descending ramp that led into what might have been a state-of-the-art medical research facility.

Noting that Darth Bane's knowledge encompassed the holocrons of Darth Revan and Freedon Nadd:

Path of Destruction wrote:To Bane it seemed the teachings contained within the single Holocron surpassed those of the Academy's entire archives. Revan had discovered many of the rituals of the ancient Sith, and as the Holocron's avatar explained their nature and purpose, Bane could barely wrap his mind around their awesome potential. Some of the rituals were so terrible-so dangerous to attempt, even for a true Sith Master-that he doubted he would ever dare to use them. Yet he dutifully copied them down on sheaves of flimsi, preserving them so he could study them in greater depth later. And there was far more than just the ancient practices of dark side sorcerers stored inside the Holocron. In only a few short weeks he'd learned more about the true nature of the dark side than he had in all his time on Korriban. Revan had been a true Sith Lord, unlike the simpering Masters who bowed to Kaan and his Brotherhood. And soon all his knowledge-his understanding of the dark side-would belong to Bane.

Rule of Two wrote:For the next four days and nights he lost himself in the secrets of the ancient artifact. As he suspected, it had been created by Freedon Nadd. Bane delved into the Holocron's secrets with the aid of the gatekeeper: a miniature hologrammic projection of the long-dead Sith Master responsible for its creation. The gatekeeper guided and directed his studies, serving as a virtual mentor to those who sought out Nadd's lost secrets inside the sinister pyramid. Though Nadd had been human, his avatar was the image of a man who had succumbed to the physical corruption that sometimes affected those who delved too deeply into the power of the dark side. His skin was pallid, the flesh withered and sunken, and his eyes were glowing yellow orbs devoid of iris or pupil. Despite this, he still appeared as a formidable warrior: broad-shouldered, clad in heavy battle armor and the helm that had doubled as his crown when he had proclaimed himself king over the nearby world of Onderon.



But the orbalisk research was only the beginning. Freedon Nadd had been a Jedi who turned to the dark side as the apprentice of Naga Sadow, the former ruler of the ancient Sith Empire. Sadow's power had been so great, it had allowed him to survive for six centuries, fueled by the energies of the dark side. As his apprentice, Nadd had absorbed all his knowledge and teachings, transferring them into the Holocron before murdering Sadow and taking his place. Not surprisingly, most of the information inside the Holocron was hidden, locked away in the depths of its crystalline structure where it could be accessed only through time, meditation, and careful study. It would take many months, maybe even years, before Bane could lay claim to its greatest secrets.

Luke Skywalker as of Jedi Academy has absolutely immense cross-era knowledge. Yet, as shown above, nothing he did against the techniques of Exar Kun were useful in any manner. This can be explained by the fact that Exar Kun had ransacked the most precious artifacts and knowledge from the Chamber of Antiquities in the Great Library of Ossus which was comparable in vastness to the Jedi Temple, and the knowledge of which was decimated:

Fact Files #46 wrote:For a thousand generations, the Jedi worked hard to ensure that peace flourished throughout the galaxy. During that time, a number of repositories of Jedi knowledge developed, whose scope and sheer magnitude have become legendary. Of these, the library on the planet Ossus is perhaps the most infamous. Tragically, it was obliterated when the stars of the nearby Cron cluster were exploded by the weapon of the ancient Sith High Priest, Naga Sadow. What vast knowledge and wisdom was lost in the ensuing conflagration is now a matter for myths and stories to imagine. In more recent times, the Archives at the Jedi Temple on Coruscant were similarly vast.

Tales of the Jedi wrote:Looking at all the precious artifacts his Massassi have stolen, Exar Kun knows he has more wealth and knowledge than he could ever use.

Furthermore, he was the final recipient of the knowledge of the Dark Holocron which is the mythos' most powerful:

The Essential Guide to Weapons & Technology wrote:The most powerful Sith Holocron contained Sith teachings and histories that covered some hundred thousand years.

Jedi VS. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force wrote:Exar Kun might not have risen to power so quickly had Odan-Urr destroyed the Sith Holocron when he’d had the chance.

Essentially, Exar Kun has Force techniques that almost no one in the mythos has a counter for and knowledge gleaned from sources destroyed by him and which died with him until Kyp Durron was shown them:

Exar Kun, Dark Apprentice wrote:"I could show you techniques that were lost thousands of years ago, secret rites and hidden doorways of power."

Speaking of which, Exar Kun teaches Kyp Durron everything:

Champions of the Force wrote:Inside that temple Kyp had received his initiation into the Sith teachings, while Dorsk 81 had lain in an unnatural coma against the wall. The spirit of Exar Kun had meant to destroy the cloned Jedi student on a whim, as a gesture of power, but Kyp had stopped him, insisting instead that the Sith Lord teach him everything. He had seen things that still left yammering nightmares in the depths of his mind.

Teachings that Kyp states were far greater than what he was taught under Luke:

Dark Apprentice wrote:"You haven't taught me very much, Master Skywalker. I've learned a great deal beyond your feeble teachings."

And he far surpasses all other students there:

I, Jedi wrote:Kyp’s presence seemed to put a spark back into Master Skywalker-the spark that had been diminished since Gantoris’ death. Kyp proved almost immediately to be the greatest of the apprentices gathered there. With only a minimum of training, he blasted on past all of us in terms of what he could do.

****

Of course, my best was nothing compared to Kyp Durron’s best. Kyp’s growth in the Force was nothing shy of incredible. In just over a week he surpassed anything the rest of us were doing by light-years.

Dark Apprentice wrote:In little more than a week of intensive work, Kyp had surpassed the achievements of the other Jedi students.

Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:Kyp travels to Yavin Four to join Luke’s Jedi academy. There, he immerses himself in work, and within days has surpassed the achievements of the other Jedi students. He doesn’t socialize with the others, preferring to concentrate on honing his Jedi skills.

This includes Kam Solusar, who stomps Vill Goir:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 BuxWe70KBP24W59Q0oSz9ESI5gnmfnVKj6DZHPsfBb_w47diOQ_Nu_8-7CzscpkLyi65HUYX7EIkZ3l-BTT0XntaP4kZyEGsFQEA3FkR2zEPNqpHRuI3dqoNhk7bh16eFnZ3sB7h

New Essential Guide to Characters wrote:On Ossus he cut Vill Goir in half.

Vill Goir is among the Dark Side Elite and is chosen from among them to accompany Executor Sedriss in taking in Luke Skywalker:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 UZyYIlb-Vy0nDvl96Kn5-FhlgIZ5r6cUQLz4Rex1AacFjVOvG7SUzbiQPdEnaKOgcfnL0UWWSdsC9Av-ktHy4gaCxjMvF6dkWHv7_wx6Ew9ZU_I1Ht90FQjb66RlmErTCctpSeYk

The Dark Side Elite are more dangerous and powerful than all but the Emperor:

Dark Empire Handbook 3 wrote:While some were merely yes-men, cronies barely fit to be footstools in the Imperial Court, others possessed tremendous strength in the Force. Coupled with maniacal lust for power, or merely psychotic, these dark side adepts were some of the most dangerous Force users in the galaxy short of the Emperor himself.

Putting them far beyond the Imperial Sentinels:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Gwnvy5zoSyQX744IvCJPi0vP1qOdhPeXo8mpZAfF3tWCs2Y8xiGeNP5gKfJPt6rGGmhM8sJC3wsvyyrWAZ9EvjTkqClNWPaGWu_JbXC61HvnLgzEj_DFaAvtuvl7p1Ga4YqatQ8X

Who were twice the power and size of Royal Guards who were almost a match for Darth Vader in combative prowess:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 KCG04h0JPHQ9H8Okecdz6jCr9T658FRNbnjmtg2X5xvr0uzpVn2rRQUCbonxfbD3Aors8Fuk_a7SOVRUHo9Y9jI8MS9j3oKn0FCllgQLfS4Bb0Q01m9y-DsR72oo25vjqUNvg6YB

In other words, skipping over lightsaber-resistant armor, the ability to cripple an opponent's saber and that niché stuff, Exar Kun's abilities in combat are absolutely up with the very top tier of the mythos, scaling up beyond Darth Vader. He has knowledge of Force techniques that are indefensible against and he is an absolute Force powerhouse that deserves a top 10 spot here.7
Geistalt
Geistalt

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 10th 2020, 1:41 am
Wait a minute

Exar Kun failed to kill Ood, and even the star's explosion that engulfed Ossus's surface in gases hot enough to undergo nuclear fusion failed to kill Ood

but Sedriss succeeded
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Suspect Hero | Level Four

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March 10th 2020, 1:43 am
No he didn't TCSWE makes it clear Ood bound Sedriss to him and nuked him. Stop trying to revive a meme 2016 argument. Sedriss didn't kill Ood, Ood killed himself per the most canonical and up-to-date source on the matter.
Geistalt
Geistalt

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 10th 2020, 1:57 am
When Sedriss called down electricity from the atmosphere, Ood drew up power from Ossus' core. The two combatants annihilated each other.
– The New Essential Guide to Characters
That's what the Sedriss Respect Thread says, anyways.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 10th 2020, 2:03 am
A source from 2002 vs a source from 2008.

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Several thousand years later on the planet Ossus, Bnar reawakened to help save Jem Ysanna, a young woman with powers in the Force. He ultimately sacrificed himself to destroy the evil Imperial Military Executor Sedriss.
...
The Executor was destroyed by the power of an ancient Jedi, Ood Bnar.

Not to mention Ood outright states he's a greater master of the Force than Sedriss is in the comic.

That's even ignoring that the surface of Ossus was decimated and thus Ood has far less living force power to draw from compared to DE.
Geistalt
Geistalt

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 10th 2020, 2:20 am
Also, I find it ironic that you rely on a 2008 quote from TCSWE to determine/judge who was responsible for Ood Bnar's death and how battles unfolded, citing its recency for your reason to use it instead of a prior source, but deny The Complete Star Wars Visual Dictionary's statement that was re-published in 2012 that Sidious was "the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power" when everyone else (or at least Azronger, Ellimist, and myself) uses it to decide/infer that Sidious was explicitly stronger than Kun.
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★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 2 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

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