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LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

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on April 20th 2019, 8:05 am
This is a feat that is barely known at all, but I find it to be one of the most important there is:

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:During the height of the Great Sith War, Thule served as a base of operations for the Sith warriors, and much of the planet's crust became imbued with the residue of the dark side of the Force.

Exar Kun displays corruption of an even more impressive degree than the likes of Vitiate with Dromund Kaas, within less than a year.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

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on April 20th 2019, 9:09 am
Moved to the appropriate sub-forum.
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Level Two

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on April 20th 2019, 11:17 am
I mean, I'm not really sure this is a "Kun succeeding where Vitiate failed" situation, mostly because the two situations aren't wholly comparable. Dromund Kaas was already "imbued with the residue of the dark side of the force" and then some before Vitiate and his followers even arrived, Vitiate's shenanigans just turned the ionosphere into infinitely swirling storms of lightning, (and likely further shifted the planet to the dark side). It's not something we can directly compare to what Kun did, imo.
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

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on April 20th 2019, 11:18 am
It also served "as a base of operations for the Sith warriors" so it wasn't just Kun performing the feat.
LSDMB
LSDMB

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on April 20th 2019, 11:26 am
And this also isn't the most consistent metric. If so I need to hop on scaling someone like Kaox Krul above Ventress to wank the Darth Bane Trilogy characters.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

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on April 20th 2019, 11:49 am
The Divine Source wrote:I mean, I'm not really sure this is a "Kun succeeding where Vitiate failed" situation, mostly because the two situations aren't wholly comparable. Dromund Kaas was already "imbued with the residue of the dark side of the force" and then some before Vitiate and his followers even arrived, Vitiate's shenanigans just turned the ionosphere into infinitely swirling storms of lightning, (and likely further shifted the planet to the dark side). It's not something we can directly compare to what Kun did, imo.

That's not really the same. Kun corrupted most of the crust of the planet not merely imbued the surface . Which was over 5,000 kilometers larger in diameter than Dromund Kaas.
LSDMB
LSDMB

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on April 20th 2019, 12:20 pm
But... the surface... is the crust...
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Level Two

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on April 20th 2019, 1:02 pm
Furthermore, the quote doesn't even state "all" the planet's crust, only a sizeable portion of it. I'm not really sure how to compare it to Vitiate given the nature of Dromund Kaas as having already been a potent dark side nexus prior to Vitiate arriving. I think a more apt comparison is how weakened Spirit Vitiate's presence on Yavin IV had an affect on the planet's nexus vastly more profound than the Dread Masters on Oricon, a world they warped to be "immeasurably" strong with the dark side.
LSDMB
LSDMB

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on April 20th 2019, 1:31 pm
And again, the comparison is somewhat sketcy. Kaox Krul and some other bitch over the course of one duel, transformed an entire lake into a rather intense nexus just by fighting there. When was the last time Darth Vader transformed an area into a nexus by fighting there? Checkmate Vader<Kaox Krul<POD Bane<<<<<DOE Bane
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
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on April 20th 2019, 2:02 pm
SithArchaeologist wrote:It also served "as a base of operations for the Sith warriors" so it wasn't just Kun performing the feat.

This. And is there proof Kun ever used Thule? Most sources state his base of operations was on Yavin IV.
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
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Level Three

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on April 20th 2019, 6:41 pm
Kun being > Vitiate is ratified by several different sources, Kun > Valk is up in the air but it could be true
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

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on April 20th 2019, 8:57 pm
@DarthAnt66 wrote:
SithArchaeologist wrote:It also served "as a base of operations for the Sith warriors" so it wasn't just Kun performing the feat.

This. And is there proof Kun ever used Thule? Most sources state his base of operations was on Yavin IV.

1.This is during the Great Sith War, not the four years prior.

2.Thule is where Kun had the Dark Reaper.

3.Kun is confirmed to be far more powerful than Ulic anyway.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
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on April 20th 2019, 9:10 pm
@LadyKulvax:

"Kun and Ulic walked out of the Senate, and returned to Yavin 4.

Many more Jedi died as the battle between the Jedi and the Sith continued, as Kun's new Sith-possessed cohorts descended on their masters across the worlds. Crado attempted to dispatch Jedi Master Thon, but failed, and returned to Yavin 4 pleading for another chance to show his worthiness. Kun obliged, and Crado successfully located and returned with a powerful Sith weapon from Naga Sadow's flagship"


I'm not sure if there's a quote saying Kun relocated to Thule, but Chronicles of the Old Republic acts like Yavin IV was Kun's main crib even during the Great Sith War.

And I'm not following your Qel-Droma reference. If this is a "base of operations for Sith warriors," then presumably dozens or hundreds of Sith would be there, not just Droma. Their collective activity resulted in a notable dark side nexus. If the Dark Reaper was kept there, then they might have done some test trials on the planet also.

So, I'm not sure how we can even comfortably say that Kun was involved in the feat, let alone that he was the main reason for it.
darthbane77
darthbane77

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on April 20th 2019, 10:05 pm
In-sidiousvader wrote:Kun being > Vitiate is ratified by several different sources, Kun > Valk is up in the air but it could be true

Vitiate being >Kun is ratified by newer sources. Kun being stronger than Vitiate is an objective impossibility, lol.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

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on April 20th 2019, 10:10 pm
There are only two Sith at this time. The only possible exception is Sion and he was a mere Marauder. The students Kun corrupted were immediately sent to assassinate their masters across the galaxy.

The Dark Reaper's last battle was on Thule.

It doesn't even really matter if it was Kun and Ulic or even just Ulic himself. Kun scales anyway.

Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma are the Sith. The two of them, that simple.

May I remind you Vitiate had an entire fleet of Sith with him to establish Dromund Kaas and still used a ritual.
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Three
Level Three

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on April 20th 2019, 10:28 pm
@darthbane77 wrote:
In-sidiousvader wrote:Kun being > Vitiate is ratified by several different sources, Kun > Valk is up in the air but it could be true

Vitiate being >Kun is ratified by newer sources. Kun being stronger than Vitiate is an objective impossibility, lol.

Lemme get on PC so I can school you Opinions on this feat: 228124001
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
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on April 20th 2019, 10:31 pm
@LadyKulvax:

Opinions on this feat: Sith13

KOTORCG says there's many "Sith" active during the Great Sith War. ^ That also seems consistent with Revan's Sith Empire.

Also note how weird it would be if they're intending "Sith warriors" to mean "Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma." Why not just say Kun and Qel-Droma then? The usage of "Sith warriors" invokes stock-and-trade foot-soldiers, like the dozens/hundreds we seemingly see in battle during the Dark Reaper campaign: 

Opinions on this feat: Great_12
darthbane77
darthbane77

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on April 20th 2019, 10:46 pm
In-sidiousvader wrote:
@darthbane77 wrote:
In-sidiousvader wrote:Kun being > Vitiate is ratified by several different sources, Kun > Valk is up in the air but it could be true

Vitiate being >Kun is ratified by newer sources. Kun being stronger than Vitiate is an objective impossibility, lol.

Lemme get on PC so I can school you Opinions on this feat: 228124001

You're welcome to make the attempt. I'll be back to this in about a week, gonna be in a dead zone for about that long while I visit family. I'll be happy to come back and slay Kun after that.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Suspect Hero | Level Four

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on April 20th 2019, 10:48 pm
Except we know what Kun's Brotherhood contains. Ulic Qel-Droma, an early Sion, Jorak Uln and a dozen Sith students who all died right after. What's also important is that this only took the 'height of the Great Sith War' to occur. In other words a fraction of a year.

The corruption level here is also important. It isn't just a nexus in one location or leaving a dark side aura across the planet. The Sith imbued most of the crust of the planet with actual dark side residue, not merely taint as is the norm.

No matter what way you swing it, it's both insane and benefits Kun who is by far the most powerful figure here. It is also consistent with the fact Kun's spirit caused a dark side aura to permeate the jungles of Yavin IV even whilst dormant.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
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on April 20th 2019, 10:53 pm
@LadyKulvax:

Except we know what Kun's Brotherhood contains. Ulic Qel-Droma, an early Sion, Jorak Uln and a dozen Sith students who all died right after. What's also important is that this only took the 'height of the Great Sith War' to occur. In other words a fraction of a year.

Based on the quotes and images I provided, it seems they set up a Korriban Sith Academy and trained "more and more Sith" than just that.

No matter what way you swing it, it's both insane and benefits Kun who is by far the most powerful figure here. It is also consistent with the fact Kun's spirit caused a dark side aura to permeate the jungles of Yavin IV even whilst dormant.

I'm honestly not trying to downplay Kun here. I just don't see how you can attach him to the feat if there's many other Sith in the galaxy and dubious evidence Kun's an active player on Thule. And as I mentioned earlier, if the Dark Reaper is stationed on Thule, then there's many reasons why the planet's crust could become imbued.

I'm not saying that Kun didn't do it - I just don't think there's really any evidence to make a decent case that he did it.
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
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on April 20th 2019, 11:21 pm
@darthbane77 wrote:
In-sidiousvader wrote:
@darthbane77 wrote:
In-sidiousvader wrote:Kun being > Vitiate is ratified by several different sources, Kun > Valk is up in the air but it could be true

Vitiate being >Kun is ratified by newer sources. Kun being stronger than Vitiate is an objective impossibility, lol.

Lemme get on PC so I can school you Opinions on this feat: 228124001

You're welcome to make the attempt. I'll be back to this in about a week, gonna be in a dead zone for about that long while I visit family. I'll be happy to come back and slay Kun after that.

nah, you can respond tonight, a small post, but just food for thought (BTW I am not a kun fan and I see you are a fellow Vader fan so don't take this too harshly) Opinions on this feat: 228124001

"Now, he [Exar Kun] sought out the only other Sith practitioner who could challenge him -- Ulic Qel Droma."

clearly novel vitiate was alive and well during this time and...
As we know Kun was able to seek on a galactic scale, this would have had to include novel Vitiate

Ulic unleashes a force of unruly fury at the death of Master Arca, avenging the death by defeating Keto, and taking the Krath throne by the side of Aleema. Meanwhile on Yavin 4, a more powerful EXAR KUN rests in his meditation chamber, reaching out across the galaxy and detecting other Sith practitioners with his psychic tendrils.

Chronicles of the Old Republic


Need I explain why Kun scales above Ulic who scales above Vitiate?
Opinions on this feat: 2257779481
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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on April 21st 2019, 1:22 am
@DarthAnt66 wrote:@LadyKulvax:

Except we know what Kun's Brotherhood contains. Ulic Qel-Droma, an early Sion, Jorak Uln and a dozen Sith students who all died right after. What's also important is that this only took the 'height of the Great Sith War' to occur. In other words a fraction of a year.

Based on the quotes and images I provided, it seems they set up a Korriban Sith Academy and trained "more and more Sith" than just that.

That was Jorak Uln, and it was on Korriban, not Thule. We know the students were still there because they joined Revan's Empire later.

@DarthAnt66 wrote:
No matter what way you swing it, it's both insane and benefits Kun who is by far the most powerful figure here. It is also consistent with the fact Kun's spirit caused a dark side aura to permeate the jungles of Yavin IV even whilst dormant.

I'm honestly not trying to downplay Kun here. I just don't see how you can attach him to the feat if there's many other Sith in the galaxy and dubious evidence Kun's an active player on Thule.

If the place is a base of operations for the Sith then Kun establishing it means that he'd obviously have to have a hand in it. Even if it wasn't the case, Kun scales from them anyway, which only makes it even more impressive.

The deal you brought up with Yavin IV doesn't really make sense either because Kun was actively trying to keep the enemy from knowing its location. Do remember that Yavin IV was a secret location that Sadow established and the Republic remained unaware of until Ulic revealed it when he betrayed Kun. Thule, I'd imagine, was more of an open staging ground for the war, whereas Yavin IV was Kun's secret seat of power.

@DarthAnt66 wrote:And as I mentioned earlier, if the Dark Reaper is stationed on Thule, then there's many reasons why the planet's crust could become imbued.

Firstly, that'd be wild speculation and it'd rely on the Dark Reaper leaving behind massive dark side residue which it never has. Secondly, the Dark Reaper was only there when Ulic used it to attack the Republic in the battle of Thule. That the text states the base was there previously, and is the context provided as to why Thule was corrupted, obviously means that the Dark Reaper isn't the culprit.

@DarthAnt66 wrote:I'm not saying that Kun didn't do it - I just don't think there's really any evidence to make a decent case that he did it.

Either he did it or his cronies. Either way, he gains the feat directly or via scaling; which would then imply his own corruptive presence is even greater.

Again, that the corruption was so quick and of such a grand planetary scale is what makes this so incredible as a feat.
darthbane77
darthbane77

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on April 21st 2019, 1:38 am
In-sidiousvader wrote:
@darthbane77 wrote:
In-sidiousvader wrote:
@darthbane77 wrote:
In-sidiousvader wrote:Kun being > Vitiate is ratified by several different sources, Kun > Valk is up in the air but it could be true

Vitiate being >Kun is ratified by newer sources. Kun being stronger than Vitiate is an objective impossibility, lol.

Lemme get on PC so I can school you Opinions on this feat: 228124001

You're welcome to make the attempt. I'll be back to this in about a week, gonna be in a dead zone for about that long while I visit family. I'll be happy to come back and slay Kun after that.

nah, you can respond tonight, a small post, but just food for thought (BTW I am not a kun fan and I see you are a fellow Vader fan so don't take this too harshly) Opinions on this feat: 228124001

"Now, he [Exar Kun] sought out the only other Sith practitioner who could challenge him -- Ulic Qel Droma."

clearly novel vitiate was alive and well during this time and...
As we know Kun was able to seek on a galactic scale, this would have had to include novel Vitiate

Ulic unleashes a force of unruly fury at the death of Master Arca, avenging the death by defeating Keto, and taking the Krath throne by the side of Aleema. Meanwhile on Yavin 4, a more powerful EXAR KUN rests in his meditation chamber, reaching out across the galaxy and detecting other Sith practitioners with his psychic tendrils.

Chronicles of the Old Republic


Need I explain why Kun scales above Ulic who scales above Vitiate?
Opinions on this feat: 2257779481

You realize that A) Vitiate wasn't even a concept when this quote was written, and B) Exar Kun had no knowledge of Vitiate's existence in any capacity, correct?

The conception and creation of Vitiate as a character, who is consistently portrayed and stated to be the most powerful Force user in history inherently retcons anything that says Kun and Ulic were the greatest Sith in history up to that point. It doesn't mean they aren't the greatest KNOWN Sith Lord, but Vitiate at the time wasn't known. Just as well, SWTOR implies that Vitiate has been the only true Emperor of the Sith since he took control of the empire. In the codex entry "Sith Title", the quote goes on to say that Vitiate is "supreme". Given the quote isn't time specific, and covers the entirety of Sith history, it's logical to assume it applies to Sith like Exar Kun, Darth Revan and Darth Malak (who is Kun's stated superior.)

"There has been only one Sith Emperor since the Great Hyperspace War over 1,300 years ago. He is supreme."

Also, to address the quote from Chronicles of the Old Republic, to assume that the quote applies to Vitiate is laughable. Not only because Vitiate is the most powerful Force user to have existed up to that point (as is stated), but also because hiding his presence is sort of a big thing for him. He stayed hidden and un-sensed by the Jedi for thirteen-hundred years, who's to say that Kun reaching his mind across the galaxy wasn't avoided or blocked by Vitiate? Especially since we know Vitiate is expertly able to hide himself and those tied to him in plain sight.

"The Sith Emperor seeks to shape all things to his will. His Children, individuals infused with part of his being, have been scattered throughout the Republic, knowingly–or unknowingly–manipulating events to the Emperor's advantage over the years. Above them all is the First Son of the Emperor, a master strategist placed within the Jedi Council itself. Cloaked in the identity of Master Syo Bakarn, the First Son has been hiding the Children from the Jedi for decades, playing a long game with the Republic. His actions suggest a man possessing remarkable patience, ruthlessness and power. However, as Sophia Farash claimed, Master Syo has been unaware of the First Son’s existence–suggesting he and the First Son are two separate personas."

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The First Son (Consular)")

"The Jedi remained blind to the Emperor's children due to the presence of the First Son, the being who was first imprinted with the Emperor's power. While the First Son lived, the Emperor's secret army remained hidden and undetected beneath the Republic's nose. By the time of the Great War, hundreds of the Emperor's Children were embedded within the Republic. Devoted Jedi, loyal soldiers, and influential politicians all unknowingly served as the Emperor's spies and, when the Emperor willed I, acted to tear down the Republic they held so dear."

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

I'd find this to be the most likely explanation, given Kun makes no mentions ever of sensing a multitude of Sith in hiding, which would be something rather significant, especially if he'd sensed a being of Vitiate's power. This is simply another of those instances where the quote just likely doesn't apply at all, due to Vitiate and resurgent Sith Empire not even being a concept at the time the quote was written.
darthbane77
darthbane77

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on April 21st 2019, 1:43 am
[[nah, you can respond tonight, a small post, but just food for thought (BTW I am not a kun fan and I see you are a fellow Vader fan so don't take this too harshly)]]

See, I actually do like Kun, it's just that none of the wank he gets is deserved and all the arguments in his favor are reaches that would make Mr. Fantastic jealous.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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on April 21st 2019, 2:13 am
Absolutely hilarious, because the Vitiate supremacy quotes don't apply until the Cold War during the TOR era, and even then they are from in-universe sources.
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