Thoughts on Darth Vader?

well, these guys certainly know how to contradict themselves.  chee has openly discussed the tiering and using it to determine "authoritative" canon.

It doesn't get any more reliable. G-Canon was the only thing that was canon. That Canon Tier thing had nothing to do with canonicity. It was the filing system used to enter and retrieve data from the Holocron for Lucas Licensing. It was like the dewy decimal system in the Library.

Leland Chee never even met George Lucas. They never spoke  or communicated in any fashion. Not even on the telephone, not even in a letter. Leland Chee says it himself.


"I think people over emphasize the importance of the canon level. The intent of the canon levels was, as the main intent was 'if someones looking for the ships from a film, they can than use those fields to check for them only in the films,and thus separate that from what was in the EU. So we can look at it case by case. I think there is an over emphasis of what those fields mean and what they represent".

~ Leland Chee

"That 'level of canon' thus helps in terms of bookkeeping. Those 'canon levels' are for the holocron."

~ Pablo Hidalgo

ForceCast #273: The Galaxy Is Reading - Interview with Leland Chee and Pablo Hidalgo, 2013Starts at about the 1 hour mark so 1:00 - 1:02 markhttp://www.forcecast.net/story/home/ForceCast_273_The_Galaxy_Is_Reading_154431.asp

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"I didn't have any direct contact with George about Star Wars. - I would see some notes based on the interviews or the meetings. But I did not have direct contact with George about Star Wars continuity."

~  Leland Chee 2018


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 Leland Chee does point out that there is one higher authority than the Holocron: Lucas himself, who is free to alter continuity at will.

https://www.mcservices.com/blog/custom-programming/lucasfilm-tracks-star-wars-continuity-with-filemaker-database/

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"Understand, that the Holocron's primary purpose is to keep track of Star Wars continuity for Lucas Licensing , and to some degree Lucas Online. To my knowledge, it is only rarely used for production purposes."

~ Leland Chee 2005

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"The G/C/S-level canon stuff is a construct specifically for the Holocron. Non-Holocron users would have no idea what this stuff even means. and I would say most of the people who use the Holocron don't use the field, instead looking specifically to the source of the material. *Individual entries are not broken down by canon level."*
~ Leland Chee 2006

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 "In the canon debate, it is important to notice that LucasFilm and Lucas are different entities. The only canon source of Star Wars are the radio plays, the movie novels and the movies themselves - in Lucas' mind, nothing else exists, and no authorized LucasFilm novel will restrict his creativity in any way."

~ Steven Sansweet, Lucasfilm Author - Director of Content Management and Head of Fan Relations at Lucasfilm Ltd.

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"What George did with the films and The Clone Wars was pretty much his universe ,” Chee said. “He didn’t really have that much concern for what we were doing in the books and games. So the Expanded Universe was very much separate."


~ Leland Chee, 2017 - SYFY WIRE

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“Lucas’ canon – and when I say ‘his canon’, I’m talking about what he was doing in the films and what he was doing in The Clone Wars  – was hugely important. But what we were doing in the books really wasn’t on his radar.”

~ Leland Chee, 2018


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"The dual universe question comes up often. I know George Lucas has mentioned it being two universes, but that’s not how I see it. His vision is definitely not beholden to ours, but ours is definitely beholden to his."


~ Leland Chee 2012

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“I did not have direct contact with George about Star Wars continuity. Dave Filoni, who worked on Clone Wars, definitely did. So for me, the spirit of George’s work is what’s in the films, and it doesn’t go too far beyond that.”

~ Leland Chee 2018
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"There's this notion that everything changed when everything became Legends. And I can see why people think that. But, you know, having worked with George I can tell you that it was always very clear -- and he made it very clear -- that the films and the TV shows were the only things that he considered Canon. That was it."

~ Dave Filoni interview on 'The Star Wars show' [41.40 mark]- https://youtu.be/hcNXPNXOv2A?t=2500

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“Those of us writing the EU were always told, all along, from the very beginning (have I stressed that strongly enough?), “Only the Movies are Canon.”  Sure, it was disappointing.”

~ Kathy Tyers, EU author [Truce at Bakura, Balance Point] Interview, 2018

http://starwarsinterviews.com/various/authors/kathy-tyers-author/

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Podcast Interview with Steve Perry, Author of Shadows of the Empire from the Expanded Universe -

Steve Perry, author of Shadows of the Empire and several other Star Wars books (as well as many other things), was this week's guest on the Ritual Misery Podcast. During the amazing conversation he told fascinating stories about working for Lucasfilm, having the privilege of contributing to the Star Wars mythos, his thoughts about Legends and the state of Star Wars canon.

Interviewer - 'So what are your thoughts about your book and all the ones that came other than this last year are no longer part of the Official Star Wars Canon ever since Disney took over?

Steve Perry - "Ohh they never were! Nothing was ever canon other than the movies.

"The Ritual Misery Podcast with hosts Amos and Kent, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2569&v=opbMcVJolSA&feature=emb_logo

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"They’re there to be enjoyed as unofficial Legends. But, as Zahn also points out, the Expanded Universe wasn’t really ever official regardless of what the fans thought." 

~ Timothy Zahn, 2017

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Entertainment Weekly reached the author in his Oregon lair to find out what he knew about Lucas’ plans for the post-Jedi chronology, and what he hopes those films might take from his still-beloved books.

That means Zahn’s books won’t be directly adapted, but the author says that was always the case: “The books were always just the books.”

“It could be an entirely new storyline, but if he picks and chooses bits and pieces from the expanded universe, we’d all be thrilled to death.”

~ Timothy Zahn, Entertainment Weekly Interview, 2012

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"It's not something we can really worry about, so we don't. Lots of people have been working on lots of SW extrapolations for the last twenty years, in good faith. There were never any promises from George Lucas or Lucasfilm regarding the acceptance of their work into some wider canon."

~ Peet Janes, Dark Horse Comics Editor, 1998

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"Steven Sansweet was asked specifically if any of the characters like Admiral Thrawn and so on would make appearances in AoTC or the movie thereafter, and he responded quite clearly that all the EU material is ”taking place in  a separate universe”. [...] there were quite a few nasty mumbles from the audience when he (Sansweet) said what he said."

Steven Sansweet, EU Author - Director of Content Management and Head of Fan Relations at Lucasfilm

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"I get asked all the time, 'What happens after "Return of the Jedi"?,' and there really is no answer for that," he said. "The movies were the story of Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker, and when Luke saves the galaxy and redeems his father, that's where that story ends."

- George Lucas, Flannelled One, May 2008, "George Lucas: 'Star Wars' won't go beyond Darth Vader", interview with Los Angeles Times

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"I don't read that stuff, I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try and keep it consistent. The way I do it is they have a Star Wars encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it and see if it has already been used. When I said other people could make thier own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have TWO universes: My Universe and than this other one. They try to make THIER universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

~ George Lucas, August, 2005

https://ibb.co/Km1CcNs

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“There are two worlds here,” explained Lucas. “There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books."

~ George Lucas, Cinescape, 2002

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"And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married."

~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, 2008

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”The novels and comic books are other authors' interpretations of my creation.  Sometimes, I tell them what they can and cant do, but I just don't have the time to read them. They're not my vision of what Star Wars is."

 ~ George Lucas 2004

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"I like to refer to the Interview with Lucas in the Special Editions.When asked about the novels and what not, he simply says:

”Those are another author's interpretation of what I've created, and not to be taken seriously, as far as what is really going on in the Star Wars world.”

~ George Lucas

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"Q: What do you think of the Expanded Universe of books?

A: "The books are in a different universe. I've not read any of them, and I told them when they started writing I wouldn't read any of them and I blocked out certain periods."

~ George Lucas 2003

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As for the Force Unleashed:

Pablo Hidalgo @pablohidalgo

"He [Lucas] never considered it canon &  was actively developing television material that disavowed it at the same time."

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"But Lucas allows for an Expanded Universe that exists parallel to the one he directly oversees. […] Though these [Expanded Universe] stories may get his stamp of approval, they don’t enter his canon unless they are depicted cinematically in one of his projects.” 

~ Pablo Hidalgo, Star Wars: The Essential Reader’s Companion, 2012

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"It is unfortunate that Karen Traviss is [EU author] moving on because of her opinion that canon is being changed. I guess the big problem is the assumption that her work is canon in the first place.  After working with George on The Clone Wars series I know there are elements of her work that are not in line with his vision of Star Wars.."

~ Henry Gilroy, TCW series Head Writer/ EU Author [Comics] 2008

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Dark Empire Introduction -  Kevin J. Anderson  -

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/2tg9rk/excerpt_from_kevin_jandersons_intro_to_the_dark/

"When you read Dark Empire, or any of the other novels [EU] remember that although Lucasfilm has approved them, these are our sequels, not George Lucas's."

"If Lucasfilm ever makes films that take place after Return of the Jedi, they will be George Lucas's own creations, probably with no connect to anything we have written.

"But in the meantime, enjoy these graphic stories, read the novels of Timothy Zahn, Kathy Tyers, Kenneth Flynt, Dave Wolverton, and myself.[Kevin J. Anderson]"

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As far as ”legitimate continuation of the films” -- If George had continued making SW films past Return of the Jedi, I don't think they would have reflected what the SW authors have written. The books, comics, etc., are a ”legitimate continuation” of the Star Wars saga as we [Lucas Licensing] define it. "

~ Sue Rostoni, Lucas Licensing (LLP Managing Editor), 2005

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"That said, I think George has always felt that the comics were an “alternate Star Wars universe” from the films. I don’t think he ever saw the comics as canon — although he did use them as a resource for ideas and images."

~ Tom Veitch, EU Author, Dark Empire Trilogy 2016

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“Lucas’ canon – and when I say ‘his canon’, I’m talking about what he was doing in the films and what he was doing in The Clone Wars  – was hugely important. But what we were doing in the books really wasn’t on his radar.”

~ Leland Chee, 2018

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"The terminology of "Expanded Universe" was a careful one; it expanded on the world created in the core stories, but was never officially meant to be Star Wars canon, according to the Maker himself, George Lucas."

~ Dave Filoni 2017

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"There is no more clear illustration of the difference between the Expanded Universe and the Star Wars created by George Lucas. The EU is a well of ideas, and there's what's on screen. They don't live in the same universe. Everyone wants to think so, I know… We just need to think of it all as a creative collection of fun ideas separate from what George Lucas has made."

~ Dave Filoni 2012

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"That’s one of the biggest debates in Star Wars, what counts? The idea of what is canon? When I talk to George I know that he considers his movies, this series and his live-action series canon."

~ Dave Filoni, SW:TCW 2008

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"While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align."

~ Lucasfilm

https://www.starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page

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"What George Saw as Canon"


"In the old days, George Lucas saw his universe as separate from publishing [EU]. He wasn't at all interested in connecting."
~ Pablo Hidalgo
https://i.imgur.com/6ZOkAau.png
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Pablo Hidalgo on Lucas and the EU being separate Universes.

https://i.redd.it/3fpbkocr43q01.png

"He [Lucas] only considers his movies and TV projects as his universe, and told the Clone Wars writers to only worry about those."*
-Pablo Hidalgo [Lucasfilm Story Group]

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"Question from Today, but I thought this was pretty well known. George Lucas never considered Jacen, Jaina, or Mara Jade as part of his universe."

~ Pablo Hidalgo May 2016
https://ibb.co/VDX2qvY

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"This is Star Wars, and I don't make a distinction between [The Clone Wars] series and the films."

~ George Lucas, SciFiNow, October 2011

ANH era Vader in EU is easily below Maul/Dooku overall. He maybe becomes comparable to Dooku by RotJ.