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lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Tue 10 Dec 2019 - 17:46
yeah lol but people say it just his or maul's imo, so its not legit. THERE'S THIS THING AUTHOR'S INTENT, PEOPLE
DC77 (Reborn)
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Tue 10 Dec 2019 - 17:49
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Azronger I concur.
HellfireUnit
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Tue 10 Dec 2019 - 18:25
@EmperorCaedus wrote:DE Sidious > Valkorion ~> RotJ Sidious >> RotS Sidious > Darth Vitiate (Novel) ~> TPM Sidious, imo

DE Sidious > RotJ Sidious > RotS Sidious > Post-boost Sidious > Darth Plagueis > ~ TPM Sidious > Valkorion. Shitkorion's hype never changes.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Tue 10 Dec 2019 - 18:30
sheev in only stronger than vitiate after he kills plagueis and inherents that power amp, btw.

so more like

DE sheev> ROTJ sheev> ROTS sheev> valkorion> post amp sheev> vitiate/plagueis
HellfireUnit
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Tue 10 Dec 2019 - 18:34
Your scaling does not based on anything rather personal views.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Tue 10 Dec 2019 - 18:35
its actually not. he is only called the strongest sith after he kills plagueis
HellfireUnit
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Tue 10 Dec 2019 - 18:37
Before him Plagueis is called to be the strongest Sith.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Tue 10 Dec 2019 - 18:45
yes so duh lol he can only be the strongest AFTER plagueis dies, like i said hahaha
BoD
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Tue 10 Dec 2019 - 18:58
@HellfireUnit Mate, you know I love you, but your ranking of Valkorion legitimately made me cringe.
HellfireUnit
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Tue 10 Dec 2019 - 19:00
BreakofDawn wrote:@HellfireUnit Mate, you know I love you, but your ranking of Valkorion legitimately made me cringe.

I love you too man, let's just be thankful this is the worst thing we cannot agree on.
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Tue 10 Dec 2019 - 19:01
Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 E7tcyf10
LadyKulvax
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Wed 11 Dec 2019 - 2:47
@Azronger wrote:
@DC77 (Reborn) wrote:To pre-emptively address something, Vitiate being a mask, the argument commonly touted by TOR crew, is irrelevant, Palpatine was also a mask for Sids, yet you wouldn't say he's not a politician. Mask or not, Vitiate was, in essence a sith. Valk is a different matter though.

Indeed. Vitiate's title is a Sith Lord and the Sith Emperor. Whether he himself believes in Sith ideology is beside the point; he is officially recognized both in-universe and out-of-universe as a Sith until his departure from the Empire. If ranks don't matter, then Darth Nihilus wasn't a Sith Lord either because he didn't care for Sith philosophy; Palpatine wasn't the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic because he secretly despised democracy; and so on. Heck, if we stretch this line of logic to its conclusion, then even a carrot is technically not a carrot because it has no internal monologue about its state of being as an orange vegetable. Or, if a person in psychosis believes themselves to be a lettuce wrap, do they taxonomically stop being a human because they themselves believe otherwise?


The amount of times this argument has been debunked, kek.
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Wed 11 Dec 2019 - 2:55
Technically, Vitiate stopped considering himself a Sith shortly after the novel, when he began building the Eternal Empire. He only returned to use the Jedi and Sith after that, not return as the Sith Emperor.
DC77 (Reborn)
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Wed 11 Dec 2019 - 20:35
It's been debunked so many times that I've lost track of what the debunk was, and thus have no way to reiterate it. Thanks!
The Ellimist
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty new thread idea

on Sat 1 Feb 2020 - 7:08
DE Sidious vs. Valkorion

who wins and why?
Azronger
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Sat 1 Feb 2020 - 11:32
Merged the threads

_________________
Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 New_sig
Corvinus
Corvinus

Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Sat 1 Feb 2020 - 15:53
Sidious by ROTS is factually above Valkorion.
IG
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Sat 1 Feb 2020 - 17:36
Valk isn’t a sith
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Sat 1 Feb 2020 - 17:47
Why do people have such a hard time understanding that Valk isn't a Sith? He renounced everything to do with the Sith, tried to wipe them out, and viewed them as a failed experiment.
Corvinus
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Sat 1 Feb 2020 - 17:49
At least half of ROTS Sidious's accolades pertain to the dark side in its entirety, not just the Sith. Nice attempt at dodging the issue though.
The Dragon Of The West
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Sat 1 Feb 2020 - 18:25
As far as I'm aware none of those accolades reference all of history, and there's no reason to interpret them in such a way, otherwise you end up with Sidious > The Son.
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Sat 1 Feb 2020 - 21:29
DE Palpatine>rotj Palpatine>valkorion>rots Palpatine>TPM palps>vitiate>plagueis>tenebrae
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Sat 1 Feb 2020 - 21:31
@Corvinus wrote:At least half of ROTS Sidious's accolades pertain to the dark side in its entirety, not just the Sith. Nice attempt at dodging the issue though.
Valkorion uses the light side and the dark side, so no, it's not dodging. As HP said, I'm pretty sure none of those refer to him as the most powerful dark sider in history, either.
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Sat 1 Feb 2020 - 21:35
@Corvinus On second thoughts, mind providing those sources for ROTS Sidious?
Corvinus
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Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Page 7 Empty Re: Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion VS. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious

on Sun 2 Feb 2020 - 17:00
@NotAA3 Neither Vitiate or Valkorion have accolades that reference "all of history", only the history up until the TOR era. As the PT era is after that, naturally the TOR era is included in that history.

As to the Son, he is exempted from such comparisons, as his source of power is the Font of Power:

Encyclopedia: Son wrote:The Son was not a Sith -- his powers existed beyond the domain of the Sith Lords.


@BoD Sidious too uses both the light and dark sides of the Force:

Revenge of the Sith: Adult Novel wrote:The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.


They had become new.

Beware the Sith wrote:Sidious possesses almost unlimited Force powers.



@BoD Sure, see below:

The Complete Visual Dictionary wrote:Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.

Note: Vitiate's ritual on Nathema is explicitly referred to as Sith Sorcery (I can provide the source if needed), and is the source of his vast increase in power and all that he later achieved in any form would not be possible without this, therefore it cannot be disputed. 

Databank: Mother Talzin wrote:By restoring Maul’s powers, Talzin hoped to defeat Sidious and become the most powerful being in the galaxy.

Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy wrote:The feeling had begun as a faint stirring in the Force, like the tiniest ripple of something moving slowly through deep water, far away but drawing steadily closer. It intensified, until it felt like the Force itself was roiling, heaving like the sea in the grip of an enormous storm.


“I sense a presence,” Maul warned Savage. “A presence I haven’t felt since...”


And then Maul knew.


“Master,” he said, leaning forward on the throne.


The commandos guarding the royal chamber reached for their throats. As Maul watched, an unseen forced lifted them high in the air, then slammed them to the floor, where they lay motionless in their red-and-black armor. The doors opened, then closed behind a figure in dark robes. A deep cowl hid most of the face, leaving only a pale chin and a downturned mouth visible. To most eyes the man in those simple robes of rough cloth was unremarkable, just another being making his way in the universe. But to those who could feel the Force he was anything but ordinary. To them, he was a dark sun blazing with power that was simultaneously hypnotizing and terrifying to behold.


Darth Sidious, the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith, had come to Mandalore.

Dark Disciple wrote:"Darth Tyranus," intoned Count Dooku's Master. Even though he wasn't physically present, the simple sound of his voice - rasping, papery, somehow, like the rustling of ancient parchment - sent a shiver through Ventress. This man was steeped in the dark side of the Force, saturated with it, in a way that she was certain Vos, perhaps even Dooku, had never been.

Revenge of the Sith: Adult Novel wrote:And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness.


A black hole of the Force.


Revenge of the Sith: Junior Novel wrote:Never had Yoda faced one so strong in the dark side.

Note: This is how other dark side Force-users (and Yoda, the strongest Jedi in history up until this point) view Sidious.


The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chamber, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two engaged in a spectacular duel—a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force’s light and dark sides.

Databank: Yoda wrote:Yoda confronted Sidious in the heart of the Senate chambers. This erupted into an intense duel between these masters of the Force, a fight that Yoda ultimately lost and was forced to flee.

Databank: Darth Sidious wrote:Master Yoda made a last-ditch attempt to stop him, and their fight spilled over into the now-empty Senate rotunda. Darth Sidious overwhelmed Master Yoda with the destructive energy of the dark side, and the Jedi Master fled Coruscant.

Revenge of the Sith: Junior Novel wrote:A fierce duel commenced. Yoda and Darth Sidious each used his side of the Force to try to defeat the other. But the Sith Lord's powers were too strong.

Insider #86: Yoda's Right Arm wrote:When Yoda crosses sabers with the movie's arch-villain, he doesn't launch into a pinwheeling display of acrobatics, as he did against Count Dooku in Episode II. Instead, Yoda faces the dark side's fury, channeled by the most powerful Sith Lord in history. "Rob Coleman wanted Yoda to feel the power of his enemy," says Wheless, "like a force he's never dealt with before."

Note: Yoda faces the "dark side's fury". The physical form through which that is channelled only emphasizes how strongly the dark side can be manifested.
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