Re: Darth Vader: A comprehensive respect thread

[CuckedCurryLevel Four]

The likelihood of the Jedi having a diminished connection to the Force is pretty high in my opinion. Most of the Jedi we see after the war and order 66 are worn both physically and mentally (Even Piell for example), disillusioned (Roan Shryne) or forced to cut their connection (Jax Pavan). This is a high showing for Vader (considering that his mobility was non-existent at that point), but none of the opponents (bar Mak’is) have any hype to their name, and we know from DL:TRODV that the average Jedi master is very sub-par, as Vader’s first kill in his suit was Bol Chatak.

[lorenzo.r.2ndLevel Three]

roan was karked up before order 66, piel died before order 66, i think, and pavan got stronger in the end lol. as for the jedis he faced, they were actually pretty high end. they werent roan shrynes, but they were pretty comparable to TPM kenobi, for example.

[CuckedCurryLevel Four]

[BreakofDawnLevel Seven]

The likelihood of the Jedi having a diminished connection to the Force is pretty high in my opinion. Most of the Jedi we see after the war and order 66 are worn both physically and mentally (Even Piell for example), disillusioned (Roan Shryne) or forced to cut their connection (Jax Pavan). This is a high showing for Vader (considering that his mobility was non-existent at that point), but none of the opponents (bar Mak’is) have any hype to their name, and we know from DL:TRODV that the average Jedi master is very sub-par, as Vader’s first kill in his suit was Bol Chatak.

Tsui Choi was a pretty revered Jedi master, as well.

[CuckedCurryLevel Four]

Right, but Tsui Choi wasn’t beaten by Vader, he was riddled with blaster bolts.

[BreakofDawnLevel Seven]

Right, but Tsui Choi wasn’t beaten by Vader, he was riddled with blaster bolts.

True, but a heavily wounded Vader seized him with the Force and he was unable to break that grip. It also took him and three other masters to bring a wounded, emotionally hindered Vader down, and even then he was back up about 30 seconds after.

[BreakofDawnLevel Seven]

Update: Added a few more feats, including some more telepathy and telekinesis feats.

[The lord of hungerLevel Two]

Update: Added a few more feats, including some more telepathy and telekinesis feats.

good job :3

[ZenwolfLevel One]

So I might have a feat for Vader, but it requires an answer to this question first.

I recall something I think from Lee? About game mechanics being Canon? Or whatever abilities shown in a game is lore accurate? Am I remembering wrong or was that something else? This obviously isn't including being able to withstand multiple lightsaber slashes or blaster shots before dying.

[BreakofDawnLevel Seven]

@Zenwolf "Game mechanics are designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created. They can serve to provide a scale from which to compare how one character or piece of technology stacks up against another. Because RPGs use dice, there is always the element of random chance involved, which isn't quite applicable to a book.

But stats themselves aren't created randomly; they are based on what is already known. As such, we can always look to them as a basis when writing books. I often look to RPG stats to see for example, what type of Force powers a character may have. Or if we haven't determined the stats of a particular vehicle, we can look to RPG stats for a basis of comparison.

Conversely, I think it would be a determinent if books were artificially limited by game stats. So I would agree that a book is going to overrule a stat if there is a contradiction."

Of course, SWTOR for example is an exception per Boyd.

[ZenwolfLevel One]

@Zenwolf "Game mechanics are designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created. They can serve to provide a scale from which to compare how one character or piece of technology stacks up against another. Because RPGs use dice, there is always the element of random chance involved, which isn't quite applicable to a book.

But stats themselves aren't created randomly; they are based on what is already known. As such, we can always look to them as a basis when writing books. I often look to RPG stats to see for example, what type of Force powers a character may have. Or if we haven't determined the stats of a particular vehicle, we can look to RPG stats for a basis of comparison.

Conversely, I think it would be a determinent if books were artificially limited by game stats. So I would agree that a book is going to overrule a stat if there is a contradiction."

Of course, SWTOR for example is an exception per Boyd.

Oh, ok nice, then I'll PM you the feat and see if it's ok.

[The Fallen WarriorLevel Four]

I'm a little peeved I didn't get credit for the planet feat, I believe that I was the first to discover that speaking with ethan in dms. If you discovered that on your own props to you, great minds think alike

[BreakofDawnLevel Seven]

I'm a little peeved I didn't get credit for the planet feat, I believe that I was the first to discover that speaking with ethan in dms. If you discovered that on your own props to you, great minds think alike

Yeah, been reading through all of the Vader comics in my own time and came across that gem in Ninth Assassin. Needless to say I'm going to wank the hell out of it soon.

Right after I add in Vader's feats against and scaling to/above SK.

[ZenwolfLevel One]

Oh also @BreakofDawn It was only 1 month after Mustafar when he fought those Jedi on Kessel, not months. Just 1.

[GuestGuest]

Right after I add in Vader's feats against and scaling to/above SK.

That he doesn't have.

[BreakofDawnLevel Seven]

Right after I add in Vader's feats against and scaling to/above SK.

That he doesn't have.

[CuckedCurryLevel Four]

Right, but Tsui Choi wasn’t beaten by Vader, he was riddled with blaster bolts.

True, but a heavily wounded Vader seized him with the Force and he was unable to break that grip. It also took him and three other masters to bring a wounded, emotionally hindered Vader down, and even then he was back up about 30 seconds after.

Bro he held him suspended in mid-air for like a second, so that the clones could kill him. Choi was completely caught off guard. I wouldn’t say that Vader was emotionally hindered at all, if anything he was likely amplified. While it is true that Vader’s rage has caused him to slip up in a myriad of instances, this wasn’t the case here. Vader still hasn’t truly let go of the ‘Anakin’ side of himself. Probulus Tesla notes in The Last Jedi that he can feel the dragon in Vader, that is shielded in a cage that is barely held together. When Captain Typho mentions Padmé’s name in Coruscant nights 2, Vader instantly falls into the quote-on-quote ‘Anakin rage’. In Dark Lord: The Rise Of Darth Vader, Vader notes that he’s still not loyal to the Emperor, and is still longing for the day when he has enough power to kill Wankatine.

On Kessel, he was under the assumption that Obi-Wan was present on the planet. Obviously, Kenobi is his number one target, the one person in the entire galaxy that Vader would genuinely give his own life to see die screaming. Vader’s rage likely boosted him far beyond his base level. Alternatively, the Jedi would have been at their all-time worst. Exhausted both physically and mentally, no co-ordination in the group, a lower connection to the light side of the Force, and they are likely partially disillusioned with the Force all-together. 

Vader hasn’t yet given into self-loathing, depression, and fear of the Emperor. His demonstrations of anger that we see later on in his career stem from any or all of these factors, which is why we often see him decline when he gives into it. He doesn’t allow the dragon to take over anymore because that part of his life is a distant memory and represents everything that caused his suffering in the first place.

[BreakofDawnLevel Seven]

Will get back to this later tonight but Vader at this point in time had absolutely zero control over his rage and hatred. The kind of rage he had unbalanced him as a combatant, noted by numerous examples as well as Sheev himself, who stated that it was Vader's rage that nearly got him killed. We see this throughout the battle, too. He's mentally unhinged at multiple points, making stupid mistakes and having little regard for his surroundings.

Seriously, Bultar Swan landed a hit on him.

[CuckedCurryLevel Four]

Completely disagree. Tactically, blind rage can mess you up, there’s no denying that. But physically, Vader was on top-form here. Getting sliced across the leg by Swan (after several other injuries, I might add) isn’t a low showing for Vader at the point, as his base incarnation was outfenced by Roan Shryne at this point, a greatly disillusioned Jedi that’s somewhere between slightly above knight tier to unable to Force push a battle droid tier. His showing on Kessel corroborates the notion that he was, indeed, physically amplified by his rage.

[lorenzo.r.2ndLevel Three]

Roan shryne was a big karking deal my guy. he had better hype than any other Jedi Vader fought aside from Luke, Anya kuro, and obi wan. By far too.

[CuckedCurryLevel Four]

Don’t take it out of context Lobenzo. His connection to the Force by the end of the war was virtually non-existent. His glory days were long, long gone.

[BreakofDawnLevel Seven]

Grievous also didn't have a connection to the Force, didn't stop him from being a master swordsman who even without his tricks could press people like Dooku. 

Needless to say, I'll get back to all of this soon. Just as soon as I'm done getting to the halfway mark on this f*cking essay.

[CuckedCurryLevel Four]

Grievous also didn't have a connection to the Force,

Stop right there.

[BreakofDawnLevel Seven]

Grievous also didn't have a connection to the Force,

Stop right there.

[lorenzo.r.2ndLevel Three]

I mean, that's not false, but u seem to undermine his conviction there. He was ready to die and was going all out. We know that using the force is a mental thing, and him not caring anymore like that about life or death is about the same requirements one need to become one with the force. He wasn't in that state, but he was clearly not in his hindered State anymore. He may have very well been fighting better than ever in there

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