Re: Darth Vader vs Meetra Surik

September 24th 2019, 5:58 pm

SithSauce wrote:Just give it up Ziggy, no need for all this hate on a character

As compelling as this argument is, I'm going to have to say no...

September 24th 2019, 6:04 pm

Vader isn’t weak per se, but compared to the majority of characters that people would debate about in this forum, he probably is.

For example, Valk >> Revan >>>> SF Malak >>> Malak > Kun > BFC Luke >>>> ROTJ Luke = ROTJ Vader.

Or Kun >>> Ood >>>> DE Luke >> Vader.

September 24th 2019, 6:05 pm

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Yes he was, he beat Morne, but Muur straight up ragdolled him.

Scans? Because if we’re thinking of the same fight, Muur did virtually nothing. Vader only retreated due to being hopelessly outnumbered by rakghouls.

September 24th 2019, 6:07 pm

Geez... 8 pages?

September 24th 2019, 6:09 pm

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Vader isn’t weak per se, but compared to the majority of characters that people would debate about in this forum, he probably is.

For example, Valk >> Revan >>>> SF Malak >>> Malak > Kun > BFC Luke >>>> ROTJ Luke = ROTJ Vader.

Or Kun >>> Ood >>>> DE Luke >> Vader.

As much as I wish this were true because the Revan wank would be glorious, nah. KotoR Revan is a jedi and is thus subject to Yoda's GOAT quotes. Since Kun is a good deal below kotOR Revan he is below yoda by a good deal as well. Any scaling chain with Kun drastically above DE Luke falls apart.

September 24th 2019, 6:15 pm

KingofBlades wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Can you explain why he is weak Graecus? Without scalings, only reasons.

Why is scaling not a legitimate reason?

I mean being belove Yoda or Bane doesn't make someone weak. There has to be particular reasons he thinks that way and I wonder why.

September 24th 2019, 6:16 pm

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Vader isn’t weak per se, but compared to the majority of characters that people would debate about in this forum, he probably is.

For example, Valk >> Revan >>>> SF Malak >>> Malak > Kun > BFC Luke >>>> ROTJ Luke = ROTJ Vader.

Or Kun >>> Ood >>>> DE Luke >> Vader.

Seriously... Dafuq is this scale? This is completely horsecrap, no offense.

September 24th 2019, 6:38 pm

Supremacy quotes are objective, per Chee, I think. And we don’t know if Revan or Malak were ever in the Coruscant temple, same with Kun.

Feats > statements that aren’t binding.

September 24th 2019, 6:46 pm

"I have dealt with writers in the past who wanted to show Jedi using their Force powers to pull spaceships out of the sky, and that sort of thing -- feats that just seemed too powerful compared to the kinds of things we see Jedi do in the films," said Stradley. "But a smart Jedi, someone like K'Kruhk, might find a way to do it that doesn't require a great deal of, er, Force. You'll see."

- https://www.cbr.com/stradleys-kkruhk-a-fire-carrier-in-star-wars-dark-times/

This combined with the pilot saying it's the controls acting up clears it up definitively. The summary is just that, a general summary and doesn't dive into the specifics. Yes K'Kruhk pulled down the airship with the force..... by manipulating the controls.

You're trying to force a contradiction where there is none

September 24th 2019, 6:52 pm

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Supremacy quotes are objective, per Chee, I think. And we don’t know if Revan or Malak were ever in the Coruscant temple, same with Kun.

Feats > statements that aren’t binding.

There's a lot more than just the jedi temple quote that cements Yoda/Anakin as the GOAT. I prefer accolades to feats since they aren't riddled with circumstantial factors.

September 24th 2019, 7:07 pm

Either way, technically, Revan was both not part of the Order in the novel, as well as the fact that Yoda is multiple ragdoll tiers above Vader well. I currently hold KOTOR Revan a bit below Yoda, around Mustafar Kenobi level, and SoR Revan a but above the PT Titans.

September 24th 2019, 7:08 pm

Dude... And you call my opinions ridicilous.

September 24th 2019, 7:12 pm

HellfireUnit wrote:Dude... And you call my opinions ridicilous.

...Revan being > Yoda/Mace/Sidious/KFV is actually worse than your view that Revan could beat Valkorion.

September 24th 2019, 7:14 pm

Now now, let's not do a DC77 here lads. Keep it civil.

September 24th 2019, 7:15 pm

Why? Why can’t Revan be above the PT Titans during SoR? Or KOTOR Revan being around Kenobi. I mean, the only solid links from the TOR era to the PT & OT eras are scaling chains formed through Kun, and they show Revan around this level.

September 24th 2019, 7:15 pm

BreakofDawn wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Dude... And you call my opinions ridicilous.

...Revan being > Yoda/Mace/Sidious/KFV is actually worse than your view that Revan could beat Valkorion.

Revan is a definite peer to them but I wouldn't go as far and claim Revan is a definitive superior though.

September 24th 2019, 7:16 pm

When I say superior, I mean a split or 6/10 kind of thing.

September 24th 2019, 7:18 pm

BreakofDawn wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Dude... And you call my opinions ridicilous.

...Revan being > Yoda/Mace/Sidious/KFV is actually worse than your view that Revan could beat Valkorion.

By the way I was kidding about that. Revan has been owned by Vitiate. Which is why I was putting Darth Vader vs Meetra Surik - Page 8 228124001

or you are breaking my heart. I do hold Revan quite high.

September 24th 2019, 7:21 pm

HellfireUnit wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Dude... And you call my opinions ridicilous.

...Revan being > Yoda/Mace/Sidious/KFV is actually worse than your view that Revan could beat Valkorion.

By the way I was kidding about that. Revan has been owned by Vitiate. Which is why I was putting or you are breaking my heart. I do hold Revan quite high.

Lol, wasn’t taking any chances. I hold him quite high too, but imo in terms of power it goes Valk >> ROTS Sidious = Yoda ~/= ROTS Mace > KFV ~ Outlander ~ Vaylin > Revan.

September 24th 2019, 7:26 pm

BreakofDawn wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Dude... And you call my opinions ridicilous.

...Revan being > Yoda/Mace/Sidious/KFV is actually worse than your view that Revan could beat Valkorion.

By the way I was kidding about that. Revan has been owned by Vitiate. Which is why I was putting or you are breaking my heart. I do hold Revan quite high.

Lol, wasn’t taking any chances. I hold him quite high too, but imo in terms of power it goes Valk >> ROTS Sidious = Yoda ~/= ROTS Mace > KFV ~ Outlander ~ Vaylin > Revan.

Eh, I can never put Valk above Sidious or Yoda. And I think SoR Revan can beat KFV and is above Outlander and siblings. It is just personal thoughts.

September 24th 2019, 7:27 pm

I can still debate Revan being > Vitiate but I would most certainly lose, deservingly. (Actually I cannot debate anything these days and should also apologize from ILS for being very late to our SS. I hate moving.)

September 24th 2019, 7:29 pm

HellfireUnit wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Dude... And you call my opinions ridicilous.

...Revan being > Yoda/Mace/Sidious/KFV is actually worse than your view that Revan could beat Valkorion.

By the way I was kidding about that. Revan has been owned by Vitiate. Which is why I was putting or you are breaking my heart. I do hold Revan quite high.

Lol, wasn’t taking any chances. I hold him quite high too, but imo in terms of power it goes Valk >> ROTS Sidious = Yoda ~/= ROTS Mace > KFV ~ Outlander ~ Vaylin > Revan.

Eh, I can never put Valk above Sidious or Yoda. And I think SoR Revan can beat KFV and is above Outlander and siblings. It is just personal thoughts.

Why not for Valk? He honestly has better feats than either Yoda or Sidious. I defo wouldn’t put Revan above KFV or the Outlander/Vaylin simply because they’re just so ridiculously powerful. I could see a case for KFV, but not the Outlander or Vaylin.

September 24th 2019, 7:36 pm

The thing is Valk lacks combat abilities. As I previously argued, Tenebrae's speed and reaction speed is far below most PT characters. I can't see a reason why he would not get just speedblitzed. Besides that, Palpatine's general power, even in RotS is way more impressive IMO. I wrote about this in one of my previous posts, I'll post it if I could find.

September 24th 2019, 7:37 pm

I like how everyone is using Kun scaling when I literally debunked it a month ago in a debate with Ellimist where he backtracked twice on the main point of contention. Top kek.

September 24th 2019, 7:43 pm

Valk one-shot the Outlander (Vaylin's peer/superior), Vaylin herself, and Arcann and when hugely weakened, he wiped out a small army with a Force wave and killed all life surrounding the Spire with a Force storm. He's also reacted to the Outlander and Arcann in fights and can slow his perception of time, so he definitely wouldn't get blitzed.