Re: ROTJ Luke vs A'Sharad Hett

September 13th 2019, 12:26 pm

King Joker wrote:Hett’s (admittedly impressive) performance against Kenobi seems clearly riddled with circumstances (environmental advantage, motivational disparities). Luke’s parity/superiority to Vader impresses me more, so I’ll go with him in a close fight.

September 14th 2019, 1:51 am

Luke's parity to Vader is what loses him the fight here.

September 14th 2019, 5:07 pm

Ziggy wrote:Luke's parity to Vader is what loses him the fight here.

(X) Doubt

September 14th 2019, 5:24 pm

This thread is basically people constantly reiterating an argument that has been defunct going on a year now, but instead of debating or changing their opinion, they make vague allusions to the argument while remaining fairly non-committal in order to save face while getting their point across. See below for an example:

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:

King Joker wrote:Hett’s (admittedly impressive) performance against Kenobi seems clearly riddled with circumstances (environmental advantage, motivational disparities). Luke’s parity/superiority to Vader impresses me more, so I’ll go with him in a close fight.

Sorry, but this forum is more analogous to North Korea than a true democracy, so simply agreeing with the consensus isn't going to prove anything

September 14th 2019, 5:40 pm

There's a response directed at you from @CuckedCurry on this very thread gaining cobwebs. ROTJ Luke vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 2 1220391476

September 14th 2019, 6:00 pm

I can't format stuff and get scans and quotes I need on this PC so at some point in the near yet undetermined future those cobwebs will be cleared my child.

Sorry I forgot to post the customary "I'll respond soon" under cucked's post to remind him I didn't suddenly die

September 14th 2019, 6:04 pm

Well, you know how we worry. ROTJ Luke vs A'Sharad Hett - Page 2 1648373583

September 14th 2019, 6:07 pm

Hett can stomp post AoTC Anakin 2 years before probably high growth in the Clone Wars then even more growth because of the dark side for 2 years

Hett's force aura is likened to the Sith by Obi Wan to the extent that he cannot differentiate between the two and it is powerful enough to be felt across Tatooine

Hett still loses to Obi Wan inspite of the latter not even holding his lightsaber for years on top of the narrator clearly emphasizing that the environment favors Hett pretty heavily. Factoring in the amount of concentration lost by Obi Wan to remembering and then trying to use his lightsaber, vs the kind of full attention that he could give if he regularly used it( forget all out combat regularly, the guy didn't use his lightsaber for a long time), you have prime Obi Wan being significantly, but not exactly vastly above Hett given that even this version of Obi Wan is noticeably above him by this point

Yeah Obi Wan is great. Is he great enough to like one shot someone that scales far above someone that can stomp post AoTC Anakin? Or can he curbstomp someone that has force aura as powerful as the Sith he has faced even if you factor in loss of accuracy? Not really. Hence I don't really think Kenobi performed some great jump that he didn't do before basically

September 14th 2019, 6:52 pm

@ILS If you want to debate the Hett fight with me I'm down. Make your point and I'll address it.

September 14th 2019, 10:31 pm

Ziggy wrote:Luke's parity to Vader is what loses him the fight here.

September 15th 2019, 1:15 pm

@meatpants

September 17th 2019, 1:37 am

G-canon confirms that Vader only held a slight advantage against Luke in ESB, and Luke in ESB is not Dooku/Maul level, lol.

September 17th 2019, 1:47 am

Meatpants wrote:G-canon confirms that Vader only held a slight advantage against Luke in ESB, and Luke in ESB is not Dooku/Maul level, lol.

So like ROTJ Vader>>>ESB Vader>>>>>ANH Vader<Maul

I believe the appropriate expression is "shooting yourself in the foot" or "performing self goal"

September 17th 2019, 1:49 am

Yeah so like, there's no evidence Vader grew at all during the short interim separating ESB and ROTJ. You're also heavily exaggerating Vader's growth from ANH to ESB. You're not proving anything at all.

September 17th 2019, 1:54 am

Meatpants wrote:Yeah so like, there's no evidence Vader grew at all during the short interim separating ESB and ROTJ. You're also heavily exaggerating Vader's growth from ANH to ESB. You're not proving anything at all.

Given you people think Luke is just equal to Vader, either Luke basically stayed the same for 1 year or Vader grew noticeably

If you genuinely think the former, I'll know that you are not interested in a serious argument

September 17th 2019, 2:00 am

LOTL wrote:

Meatpants wrote:Yeah so like, there's no evidence Vader grew at all during the short interim separating ESB and ROTJ. You're also heavily exaggerating Vader's growth from ANH to ESB. You're not proving anything at all.

Given you people think Luke is just equal to Vader, either Luke basically stayed the same for 1 year or Vader grew noticeably

If you genuinely think the former, I'll know that you are not interested in a serious argument

Why are you chucking a word salad at me? It's simple, Lucas said that Vader was slightly ahead of Luke in ESB. In the RotJ script, it's noted that Luke has "grown during the interim". Thus, Vader doesn't need to grow for Luke to become equal to him, and since it's less than a year difference between the two movies, I doubt Vader grows significantly.

September 17th 2019, 2:07 am

Meatpants wrote:

LOTL wrote:

Meatpants wrote:Yeah so like, there's no evidence Vader grew at all during the short interim separating ESB and ROTJ. You're also heavily exaggerating Vader's growth from ANH to ESB. You're not proving anything at all.

Given you people think Luke is just equal to Vader, either Luke basically stayed the same for 1 year or Vader grew noticeably

If you genuinely think the former, I'll know that you are not interested in a serious argument

Why are you chucking a word salad at me? It's simple, Lucas said that Vader was slightly ahead of Luke in ESB. In the RotJ script, it's noted that Luke has "grown during the interim". Thus, Vader doesn't need to grow for Luke to become equal to him, and since it's less than a year difference between the two movies, I doubt Vader grows significantly.

The word salad tripe is old. Continue it and it might become a meme

I'll make it very simple

Vader>=ESB Luke

Vader=ROTJ Luke

Given ROTJ Luke>>>ESB Luke, ROTJ Vader>>>ESB Vader

Simple? Consider this as your fat free, gluten free salad

For your argument, you would have to argue that ROTJ Luke>=ESB Luke or that Luke didn't grow massively in the year. Something that is basically nothing but laughable

September 17th 2019, 2:11 am

What's the evidence that Luke's growth was massive? And following Lucas' official interpretation of Luke's power growth isn't laughable.

September 17th 2019, 2:19 am

Meatpants wrote:What's the evidence that Luke's growth was massive? And following Lucas' official interpretation of Luke's power growth isn't laughable.

Pretty sure outright quotes exist.

For now, you can satisfy yourself with the fact that Luke has a year of training and experience with the force opposed to a few months or weeks and he is basically not even a proper apprentice. He is an Initiate in the old Jedi system. Their only characteristic? They have to become more powerful. Their growth rate is the highest in their career

The fact that you have to even ask this question is pretty legitimately concerning

Your ranting about Lucas's quote is a red herring. Neither does he indicate the extent of Luke's growth nor have I even referenced the quote

September 17th 2019, 2:23 am

"Pretty sure" doesn't cut it. Show us the quotes or don't try and argue using quotes you "think" may or may not exist. It's very simple. Our community follows the official Holoron, and Lucas' words are practically tantamount to God. And his words are pretty clear - Luke is slighty inferior to Vader in ESB, and subsequently grows during the interim to become an equal in both sabers and Force. End of story.

September 17th 2019, 2:25 am

Meatpants wrote:"Pretty sure" doesn't cut it. Show us the quotes or don't try and argue using quotes you "think" may or may not exist. It's very simple. Our community follows the official Holoron, and Lucas' words are practically tantamount to God. And his words are pretty clear - Luke is slighty inferior to Vader in ESB, and subsequently grows during the interim to become an equal in both sabers and Force. End of story.

I rarely lose my patience but I am coming pretty close.

Read MP. Read. I have covered everything.

September 17th 2019, 2:29 am

Lucas' own words: "Luke is now proficient enough to face Darth Vader [ESB], so it's a slightly one-sided sword fight where Vader has the advantage over him ... and then as we go on into the next fight, it becomes more an equal confrontation"

Simple as ABC or 123.

September 17th 2019, 2:39 am

Meatpants wrote:Lucas' own words: "Luke is now proficient enough to face Darth Vader [ESB], so it's a slightly one-sided sword fight where Vader has the advantage over him ... and then as we go on into the next fight, it becomes more an equal confrontation"

Simple as ABC or 123.

This

Is

Irrelevant

Again, read

September 17th 2019, 2:48 am

It's not irrelevant - you're just squirming to find some way for Lucas to not be correct lol; exaggerating power growths and the like, and then refusing to back them up with actual quotes when asked.

September 17th 2019, 2:57 am

Meatpants wrote:It's not irrelevant - you're just squirming to find some way for Lucas to not be correct lol;

Fucking read. Not relevant to anything I said. I agree with the quote.

As for the power growth, I am pretty sure I can find those obscure sources given time, but the fact that you are contesting this is laughable given the theme of the story