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Jedi_Jesus
Jedi_Jesus

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 10:01 am
Legends primes cuz duh
Morals ON

Distance apart: 25 meters
Location: the room of a thousand fountains, coruscant Jedi temple
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 10:08 am
Yoda should win, but Ragnos should give him moderate difficulty for sure.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 10:46 am
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
Marka Ragnos is sub NJO padawan, he fucking gets trashed into oblivion.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 10:53 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:Marka Ragnos is sub NJO padawan, he fucking gets trashed into oblivion.
Trayus Marauder
Trayus Marauder

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 10:58 am
All jokes aside, one could argue that Ragnos ragdolls.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 11:43 am
Sidious can't ragdoll Yoda, how in the hell Ragnos has any chance?
Shimrra
Shimrra

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 12:12 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:
@HellfireUnit wrote:Marka Ragnos is sub NJO padawan, he fucking gets trashed into oblivion.
RedGuard1an
RedGuard1an

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 12:40 pm
Yoda stomps
Vaelias
Vaelias

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 4:26 pm
@Trayus Marauder wrote:All jokes aside, one could argue that Ragnos ragdolls.

Huh how Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda 815462187
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Three
Level Three

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 5:37 pm
Yoda stomps the halfbreed into oblivion
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 5:43 pm
@HellfireUnit wrote:Marka Ragnos is sub NJO padawan, he fucking gets trashed into oblivion.

Marka Ragnos immediately after returning from Chaos still being strong enough to make Tavion invulnerable to Jaden's Force attacks for a limited time completely shits on this line of thinking.

OP: Yoda wins a great fight.
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level Two
Level Two

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 5:59 pm
Yep. Totally immune. That's why I can kill Tavion with lightning in game.

Yoda stomps.
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 6:04 pm
What part of 'for a time' are you having difficulty comprehending?

Marka Ragnos having his full power back immediately after returning to Chaos would be a ridiculous stance given that Sheev needed years of draining the life force of 20,000,000,000 people and an enormous nexus, to regain his full power after he returned.

Need I bring up the cowed quote and explain why it absolutely is a wank feat for Ragnos?


Last edited by LadyKulvax on January 31st 2021, 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Vaelias
Vaelias

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

January 31st 2021, 7:14 pm
@LadyKulvax wrote:What part of 'for a time' are you having difficulty comprehending?

Marka Ragnos having his full power back immediately after returning to Chaos would be a ridiculous stance given that Sheev needed years of draining the life force of 20,000,000,000 people and an enormous nexus, to regain his full power after he returned.

AOTC Yoda wouldn't stomp Plagueis and he certainly isn't stomping Ragnos. Need I bring up the cowed quote and explain why it absolutely is a wank feat for Ragnos?

What even suggests that he gained his "full power" back at all, if anything he would be far weaker, which is some good wank for him anyway seeing as he was beaten, I don't see any reason to believe that he gained his full power back at all
Trayus Marauder
Trayus Marauder

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

February 1st 2021, 6:23 am
To explain why Ragnos can (and likely would) ragdoll Yoda, I'll refer everyone to this scaling. Afterward, I'll provide the various pieces of evidence that justify the legitimacy of its construction:

The scaling:

Marka Ragnos>>Naga Sadow>Ludo Kressh>generic Ancient Sith>generic Ancient Sith spirits>generic Ancient Sith spirits on Korriban as of 0ABY>ANH Sidious>RotS Sidious>>Count Dooku=AotC Yoda

The evidence (working my way from the bottom all the way to Ragnos):
1. Lucas confirmed that as of AotC, Dooku and Yoda were equals in terms of overall power.
2. Gillard confirmed that RotS Sidious and Anakin are on the same tier. Considering how easily Anakin won in RotS vs Dooku, it is fair to conclude that RotS Sidious could do just as well if not better.
3. ANH Sidious>RotS Sidious due to natural progression over time due to training and a greater understanding of the force.
4. An ancient Sith spirit on a weakened Korriban was responsible for kicking Sidious's ass around 0ABY, nearly killing him.
5. Given Korriban was more potent during Ancient times, the spirits would have more power to use and draw from.
6. Ancient living Sith would be more powerful than their spirit forms due to the consistent theme of physical versions being more powerful than spirits. Exar Kun is an excellent example of this.
7. Ludo Kressh was one of the Sith in line to take over the Empire, demonstrating that he stood above almost everyone else.
8. Considering that Sadow beat Kressh in a legitimate fight, he is superior without question.
9. Sadow is confirmed to be inferior to Ragnos via multiple accolades as well as the fact that Kressh held absolute confidence that Ragnos' spirit could crush Sadow. And as mentioned before, physical versions>spirits.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

February 1st 2021, 8:21 am
@Trayus Marauder wrote:To explain why Ragnos can (and likely would) ragdoll Yoda, I'll refer everyone to this scaling. Afterward, I'll provide the various pieces of evidence that justify the legitimacy of its construction:

The scaling:

Marka Ragnos>>Naga Sadow>Ludo Kressh>generic Ancient Sith>generic Ancient Sith spirits>generic Ancient Sith spirits on Korriban as of 0ABY>ANH Sidious>RotS Sidious>>Count Dooku=AotC Yoda

The evidence (working my way from the bottom all the way to Ragnos):
1. Lucas confirmed that as of AotC, Dooku and Yoda were equals in terms of overall power.
2. Gillard confirmed that RotS Sidious and Anakin are on the same tier. Considering how easily Anakin won in RotS vs Dooku, it is fair to conclude that RotS Sidious could do just as well if not better.
3. ANH Sidious>RotS Sidious due to natural progression over time due to training and a greater understanding of the force.
4. An ancient Sith spirit on a weakened Korriban was responsible for kicking Sidious's ass around 0ABY, nearly killing him.
5. Given Korriban was more potent during Ancient times, the spirits would have more power to use and draw from.
6. Ancient living Sith would be more powerful than their spirit forms due to the consistent theme of physical versions being more powerful than spirits. Exar Kun is an excellent example of this.
7. Ludo Kressh was one of the Sith in line to take over the Empire, demonstrating that he stood above almost everyone else.
8. Considering that Sadow beat Kressh in a legitimate fight, he is superior without question.
9. Sadow is confirmed to be inferior to Ragnos via multiple accolades as well as the fact that Kressh held absolute confidence that Ragnos' spirit could crush Sadow. And as mentioned before, physical versions>spirits.

All fine and dandy until you realize Ragnos is capped by TPM Sidious and ROTS Sidious Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda 815462187
Trayus Marauder
Trayus Marauder

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

February 1st 2021, 8:29 am
@Vaelias

All fine and dandy until you realise that Chee debunked the viability of supremacy quotes meaning the Sidious>all other Sith quotes aren't valid.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

February 1st 2021, 9:03 am
@Trayus Marauder wrote:@Vaelias

All fine and dandy until you realise that Chee debunked the viability of supremacy quotes meaning the Sidious>all other Sith quotes aren't valid.

All fine and Dandy until you realize that Chee never did that, he never refuted meanings of quotes like  "Sidious is more powerful in the force than any Sith before him" or "Sidious possesses more mastery of the dark side than any Sith in history" he merely implied that not all supremacy quotes should be taken at face value for example quotes like "Sidious is the most powerful Sith" could possibly be referring to something other than strength in the force, like,  military or political power, but that much becomes clear anyway with the context surrounding the quote. the quotes are still binding sources, ignoring them is canonically incorrect Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda 1289255181
Trayus Marauder
Trayus Marauder

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

February 1st 2021, 9:31 am
@Vaelias

I do like how you make hypocritical points. You note that supremacy quotes are up for debate yet you try to say that debating them is canonically incorrect. You also place importance on acknowledging context but actively choose to ignore the context here (multiple sources detailing Sidious's run-in with the Ancient Sith).

Just for a refresher, (since you seem to need one) here are the Chee quotes and how they render the Sidious quotes useless:

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Screenshot_20201026-145452_Chrome

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Images_1_1o

In the first image, Chee opens by establishing that room for debate is always a possibility so you stating that Sidious supremacy quotes must be acknowledged is canonically incorrect.

In the second, Captain Yossarain poses the idea that there are no binding lists about being most powerful within the context of multiple eras or the whole universe. Chee flat out agrees with this idea. It's also interesting to note that Sidious quotes are specifically debunked. Chee notes that while Gillard's list is legitimate, others are not given that he and others don't deal in absolutes. So dodge as much as you like but Sidious supremacy quotes have no power.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Three
Level Three

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

February 1st 2021, 12:40 pm
Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda 3363707401
Praxis
Praxis
Moderator
Moderator

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

February 1st 2021, 1:21 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda 815462187
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

February 1st 2021, 2:01 pm
@Trayus Marauder: I address Chee's comments on supremacy quotes here. Let me know your thoughts.

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t4248-star-wars-vs-debating-in-2021-part-i-shedding-limitations

4. An ancient Sith spirit on a weakened Korriban was responsible for kicking Sidious's ass around 0ABY, nearly killing him.

Quote?
Decimus
Decimus

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

February 1st 2021, 3:53 pm
Not sure how Anakin remotely has a chance, if you want to know how powerful he is well Ragnos ragdolls GM Luke. Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda 1289255181
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Four
Level Four

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

February 1st 2021, 4:01 pm
Ragnos invokes the race and religion card and Yoda is forced to respect anothers religion and ethnicity and concedes.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda Empty Re: Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda

February 1st 2021, 4:23 pm
I do like how you make hypocritical points. You note that supremacy quotes are up for debate yet you try to say that debating them is canonically incorrect.
Where did I say debating them is canonically incorrect please ? I said not using the quotes where the context is clear that the quotes mean most powerful Sith, in terms of force power is incorrect, there is of course still a debate for whether that quote really means that power is referring to force power but more often than not they clearly are.

Leland Chee wrote:"there is always going to be room for interpretation and debate"

Yes to whether the Power is political, military might or actual force power . he quite literally says this straight after that lol...

Leland Chee wrote:"is the power being measured referring to his mastery over the dark side of the force, the governmental powers he wields as Emperor, or some combination of both"
And that's where further debate comes in, Context, Meaning of the word Power, Scaling, Canonicity levels etc.

The dude above says "Most Powerful would have lots of different variables" and that its best to say Ragnos' statements would put him amongst the most powerful Sith along with Sidious"
Then Chee opens with "Agreed"
and as I said that's when further debate can come in to get an exact placement based on the accolade Context, Meaning of the word, Power, Scaling and Canonicity levels so we know that Ragnos stands amongst the most powerful, but we can conclude that his quotes would only refer to his era based on the context thus we can scale him as high as possible based on what the quotes would allow.


Leland Chee wrote:Us continuity people don't deal in absolutes
Referring to not answering the question directly and saying "this where Marka would be placed this is how powerful Marka is" he already confirmed in the previous quote where he says "is the power being measured referring to his mastery over the dark side of the force, the governmental powers he wields as Emperor, or some combination of both" and then agreed with the guy who said "most powerful has many different variables", that is where the debate on quotes is at, the debate isn't whether the quote should be ignored or not that's ridiculous.

After that all he does is confirms low canonicity  S-Canon stats meant for gameplay purposes only are not indicative of true power levels, which is widely accepted anyway I don't think anyone on here ranks based solely on stats.

It's also interesting to note that Sidious quotes are specifically debunked.
Dunno where you gathered that from, in the case of Sidious he has about 100 quotes stating that he is the most powerful Sith of all time, even some quotes that flat out say he is the most powerful with the force which as I've shown you, means exactly what it means, these are binding statements, some even of T-Canon which overrules C-Canon, now I can understand debating the authority of a few lone accolades when the context is fuzzy and unclear, but this is most certainly not the case for Sidious at all, even without his quotes Sidious is supreme he has showings FAR beyond any other Sith, What is actually interesting to note is that Chee has personally fact checked and approved dozens of supremacy quotes himself Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda 1289255181

Chee notes that while Gillard's list is legitimate, others are not given that he and others don't deal in absolutes.
He is talking specifically about S-Canon statistics as I noted above no body even uses them anyway

So dodge as much as you like but Sidious supremacy quotes have no power.
Dodge all you want but they do, as I have just shown you, Your rankings are canonically incorrect   Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda 3344068304  Prime Marks Ragnos- fully geared VS AOTC Yoda 1289255181
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