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Vaelias
Vaelias

The New SWTOR DLC Makes Valk weaker, lol Empty The New SWTOR DLC Makes Valk weaker, lol

on December 10th 2020, 9:08 pm
in the new expansion you have to fight Vitiate, Valkorion and Tenebrae, all 3 iterations seem to have the same power, but wait a minute... Tenebrae and Vitiate are Sith, if they r all the same power then they are all locked under his majesty Sheev Palpatine seeing how he has superiority over all Sith. The New SWTOR DLC Makes Valk weaker, lol 4233314142
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

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on December 10th 2020, 9:22 pm
They're three beings comprising one entity. He's no more of a Sith than he ever was. Then again, it seems to be up in the idea just what the Outlander is at the moment, as well.
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Level Two

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on December 10th 2020, 9:30 pm
Good one The New SWTOR DLC Makes Valk weaker, lol 1220391476
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

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on December 11th 2020, 1:34 am
@Vaelias wrote:in the new expansion you have to fight Vitiate, Valkorion and Tenebrae, all 3 iterations seem to have the same power, but wait a minute... Tenebrae and Vitiate are Sith, if they r all the same power then they are all locked under his majesty Sheev Palpatine seeing how he has superiority over all Sith. The New SWTOR DLC Makes Valk weaker, lol 4233314142

This is amusing.

Star Wars: Force and Destiny: Core Rulebook is the last publication to address Legends continuity when Disney decided to reboot much of the lore. In this book, the first form of Tenebrae is discussed and Palpatine's hype was toned down to "may be the most powerful Sith." Tenebrae's relatively superior forms were not even addressed with the caveat that the Archives are Incomplete.

In the latest update, you confront Tenebrae as the entity in its composite form bringing all of its forms to bear against a massive force of powerful Force-users opposing him. He nearly succeed until too many spirits join the show and then he is toast.

Sorry to disappoint you but Valkorion transcended the Sith in Form and Abilities.

Palpatine failed to defeat Luke and Leia when it mattered the most and failed to create a Voice in Jedi Knight Brand because creating one in a living being is much more challenging undertaking than in a cloned body as per D6 sourcebooks.
Shimrra
Shimrra

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on December 11th 2020, 4:03 am
TPM Sidious >>>> Valk confirmed
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

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on December 11th 2020, 11:30 am
Can't say I agree with these mental gymnastics lol
Zenwolf
Zenwolf
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on December 11th 2020, 3:49 pm
I'm more confused that, if his power was that great to start with, why didn't he just try to take over the galaxy during the time when the Republic was still relatively small? I mean Naga Sadow pretty much did until he was betrayed and I'm sure that he was superior....right? But instead he just stays out of stuff because....reasons? Even though he was wanting to rule/absorb/take over the galaxy anyway?
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

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on December 11th 2020, 4:25 pm
bUt He WaS hIdInG iN tHe ShAdOwS
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
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on December 11th 2020, 5:40 pm
@Zenwolf wrote:I'm more confused that, if his power was that great to start with, why didn't he just try to take over the galaxy during the time when the Republic was still relatively small? I mean Naga Sadow pretty much did until he was betrayed and I'm sure that he was superior....right? But instead he just stays out of stuff because....reasons? Even though he was wanting to rule/absorb/take over the galaxy anyway?

Because he didn't care. His plan all along was to rebuild the Empire to wage war with the Republic and fuel his ritual in the process. At that point in time, the Empire was in shambles and a shadow of what it was.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

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on December 12th 2020, 9:43 am
I have connected some of the most relevant dots below which make cross-era comparisons possible from technical standpoint.

---- ----

Valkorion is not a Force Ghost (or a Sith Spirit) akin to Darth Marr and the sort but something much different: "A being of unfathomable power and insatiable appetite, he transcended death multiple times, shedding his physical shells as they were discovered, defeated, and destroyed... only to return in another form." - SWTOR - Codex Entry - The Fall of Valkorion.

Palpatine cheated death only once (very impressive accomplishment no doubt but no need to stretch this feat with fanciful interpretations) - he could not do this repeatedly. When his supply of cloned bodies ran out, he realized that his end was drawing near (see [1] below) and traveled to Korriban to commune with Sith spirits which in turn advised him to subject a Force-sensitive newborn to Transfer Life. Palpatine was using this technique to move from one cloned body to next in times of the Dark Empire because the clones could never be reliable on the level of living beings (see [2] below) - Transfer Life is an application of the Force and should not be mistaken for "cheating death."

For [1]: The Emperor continued his galaxy gun attacks but it was becoming more and more obvious that his cloned body would not live much longer. Without a new body he would be resigned to utter madness beyond death. -  Star Wars Handbook # 3 - Dark Empire

For [2]: Palpatine's own clone bodies were getting further and further away from the original, and thus they were decaying faster and faster. The Emperor needed a new template, a new, powerful body to inhabit and consolidate his control over the galaxy. - Star Wars Handbook # 3 - Dark Empire

Palpatine could not produce VOICES in all manner of living beings much like Valkorion - this is apparent from the fact when Palpatine attempted to Transfer Life into Jedi Knight Brand, the Sith Lord failed and his essence was vanquished by the Jedi in the resulting clash of willpower (i.e. an unwilling host) - the Jedi also perished because he was mortally wounded by Palpatine's Force Lightning earlier and the subsequent clash of willpower with Palpatine's essence took further toll on him. As I have repeatedly stressed before, the act of Transfer Life in other living beings (i.e. an unwilling host) is one of the most difficult applications to ever attempt from technical standpoint (i.e. on the level of summoning and sustaining a Force Storm Wormhole as per D6 system rules), and the most risky feat to attempt for virtually any Force-user in the lore - chances of failure are really high. Even Darth Plagueis admitted that the rare talent of Midichlorian Manipulation is a lesser feat in comparison:

The pneuma governs consciousness. Through this I am convinced that the energy pattern we know as self-awareness can be preserved and imprinted a second time into the neural pathways of a different brain. This process would be simplest with a cloned body that is identical to the subject's own, though in theory any advanced biological form would prove sufficient. Body swapping of this nature is riskier than simply sustaining one's own life through midi-chlorian manipulation. In dire emergency however, it could serve as an escape from oblivion. - Darth Plagueis, Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

Valkorion was on another level in comparison to any Sith to have ever existed - the former spent centuries pushing his immortality to new heights:

In his relentless pursuit of immortality, the Emperor explored the most sinister, uncharted depths of the dark side. - Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

+

The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy. When he spoke of life and death, it had far deeper meaning than the mere physical existence of the lesser beings that served him. - (Darth Nyriss, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

+

Remember that all those who have direct access to the Emperor—the Emperor’s Voice, the Emperor’s Hand, the soldiers in the Imperial Guard—are under his spell. Breaking that spell, turning his most loyal followers against him, is our best chance of defeating him and saving the Empire from his mad plan to attack the Republic. - Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

NOTE: Kudos to Darth Nyriss to figure all that out. Her assessment was brilliant.

+

The Voice is the mouthpiece through which the Emperor delivers his orders. This possessed being sacrifices all consciousness to become a hollow vessel for the Emperor. Over the centuries, the Emperor has taken many Voices from young children to alien species. When the Voice speaks, it does so with the Emperor's cold, emotionless, and commanding tone. The Voice also wields the Emperor's incredible power and is capable of striking down anyone who displeases him. Those who converse with the Voice are overwhelmed with dread and unshakable obedience. To speak with the Voice is to speak with the Emperor himself.

The Emperor created his first Voice after the legendary Jedi named Revan attempted to assassinate him on Dromund Kaas. Though Revan's plot failed, he approached within striking distance of the Emperor. To guard against further vulnerability, the Emperor created the Voice to deliver his orders while distancing himself from the forces that conspired against him. Centuries later, this very safeguard would save the Emperor once more.
- Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

NOTE: Darth Plagueis was absolutely correct.

Understand the difference.

Valkorion is stated to be the most powerful Force-user ever for good reason:

The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed. - Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

BioWare isn't stupid for hyping Valkorion to that extent. They understand D6 and D20 technicalities because they develop games and have a deep grasp of the lore as well - more so than many fans around the world.

It is important to understand the lore, its technicalities and developments before jumping to conclusions while evaluating characters relative to each other. This require much reading and contemplating however.

---- ----

Full response in following thread: https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t4108p75-valkorion-vs-luke-skywalker-and-darth-sidious

@Shimrra wrote:TPM Sidious >>>> Valk confirmed

See above.
Zenwolf
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on December 12th 2020, 10:23 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
So the takeaway from all this is that Valk is a master of the immortality game as that was his singular focus.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

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on December 12th 2020, 10:55 am
@Zenwolf wrote:So the takeaway from all this is that Valk is a master of the immortality game as that was his singular focus.

Absolutely.

This was his most powerful aspect and the source of his unprecedented hype by extension because it transformed him into something else entirely - a being unique in the galaxy and increasingly difficult to defeat by the year. His immortality was shaping his capacity as a practitioner of the Force since NATHEMA - he substituted Midichlorians with immortality in full by the time he developed VOICES and was able to cheat death time-and-again and come back stronger after each instance. But the Force strives for balance...
BreakofDawn
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on December 12th 2020, 2:21 pm
@Zenwolf wrote:So the takeaway from all this is that Valk is a master of the immortality game as that was his singular focus.

I wouldn't call him a "master" since he gets his host body killed every other Tuesday.

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