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Halcylx
Halcylx

Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 1:23 am
Hi y’all I’m new to this forum

How would you guys Rank the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 1:37 am
Something like:

1.Wrath/Nox 'Lander
2.Darth Malgus (Onslaught)
3.Sith Emperor (Novel)
4.Darth Nihilus
5.First Son
6.Darth Malak
7.Darth Revan
8.Darth Traya
9.Darth Thanaton
10.Exal Kressh
Halcylx
Halcylx

Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 1:58 am
@LadyKulvax wrote:Something like:

1.Wrath/Nox 'Lander
2.Darth Malgus (Onslaught)
3.Sith Emperor (Novel)
4.Darth Nihilus
5.First Son
6.Darth Malak
7.Darth Revan
8.Darth Traya
9.Darth Thanaton
10.Exal Kressh

Nice, who is first son?
And would you rank all these below the banite line or some above some below ?
Halcylx
Halcylx

Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 2:04 am
@LadyKulvax wrote:Something like:

1.Wrath/Nox 'Lander
2.Darth Malgus (Onslaught)
3.Sith Emperor (Novel)
4.Darth Nihilus
5.First Son
6.Darth Malak
7.Darth Revan
8.Darth Traya
9.Darth Thanaton
10.Exal Kressh

And what about the likes of
Baras
Vengean
Ravage
Vowrawn

I know there’s not too much to go off on those but just wondered
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
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Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 2:19 am
Welcome to Suspect Insight. Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith 1289255181

1-2. These two are likely more powerful than the Voice of the Emperor (no particular order).

- The Emperor's Wrath
- Darth Malgus

3. The Voice of the Emperor.

4-10. These six are weaker than, but plausibly somewhat near, the Voice of the Emperor (no particular order).

- Darth Malak
- Darth Marr
- Darth Jadus
- The First Son
- Darth Baras
- Darth Nox
- Darth Soverus 

That's admittedly a pretty vague list, but I think it's hard to differentiate a lot of these Sith. I might try to revisit this thread later this week diving more in-depth. The general gist is, though, that 4-10 all have statements or performances putting them either near one-another or at the upper echelon of the Dark Council, and Scourge notes that the most powerful Dark Councillors would pose a combative threat to the Voice (who should be even more powerful than the Vitiate seen in the Revan novel). 

I'm excluding Darth Nihilus, Tulak Hord, and the Dread Masters, although the Dread would be #1 otherwise. Ancient Sith like Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, etc. probably don't make the cut. I would put all the listed characters above Darth Tenebrous and the preceding Banites. My reasoning is outlined here: 

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t2804-a-case-for-the-neo-antediluvians
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 2:33 am
This is a KotOR/SWTOR list, the ancients obviously aren't included.

If they were, the list would be basically dominated by them given what we know from the game itself.
Halcylx
Halcylx

Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 2:36 am
@DarthAnt66 wrote:Welcome to Suspect Insight. Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith 1289255181

1-2. These two are likely more powerful than the Voice of the Emperor (no particular order).

- The Emperor's Wrath
- Darth Malgus

3. The Voice of the Emperor.

4-10. These six are weaker than, but plausibly somewhat near, the Voice of the Emperor (no particular order).

- Darth Malak
- Darth Marr
- Darth Jadus
- The First Son
- Darth Baras
- Darth Nox
- Darth Soverus 

That's admittedly a pretty vague list, but I think it's hard to differentiate a lot of these Sith. I might try to revisit this thread later this week diving more in-depth. The general gist is, though, that 4-10 all have statements or performances putting them either near one-another or at the upper echelon of the Dark Council, and Scourge notes that the most powerful Dark Councillors would pose a combative threat to the Voice (who should be even more powerful than the Vitiate seen in the Revan novel). 

I'm excluding Darth Nihilus, Tulak Hord, and the Dread Masters, although the Dread would be #1 otherwise. Ancient Sith like Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, etc. probably don't make the cut. I would put all these named characters above Darth Tenebrous and most of the Banites. My reasoning is outlined here: 

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t2804-a-case-for-the-neo-antediluvians


Thanks man,

Yeh I read your reasoning and that puts Freedon and Sadow and all those guys above the banites but does it put SWTOR/KOTOR sith up there too, I’m working on a list that I wanna try make as accurate as possible so I’m holding the ancient sith > Tenebrous But then I wasn’t sure wether to put the SWTOR/KOTOR sith above the Banites
Also where would u hold Darth Revan would he be below the likes of Nox
I’ve ranked Nox quite high due to him being stated to be the next Tulak Hord,
Tulak Hord
Darth Nox
Aloysius Kallig

These 3 seem to be in the same level which is all above plageuis but I don’t see anything that scales the likes of Malgus up there atm, u got any ideas ?
Vaelias
Vaelias

Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 2:44 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@DarthAnt66 wrote:Welcome to Suspect Insight. Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith 1289255181

1-2. These two are likely more powerful than the Voice of the Emperor (no particular order).

- The Emperor's Wrath
- Darth Malgus

3. The Voice of the Emperor.

4-10. These six are weaker than, but plausibly somewhat near, the Voice of the Emperor (no particular order).

- Darth Malak
- Darth Marr
- Darth Jadus
- The First Son
- Darth Baras
- Darth Nox
- Darth Soverus 

That's admittedly a pretty vague list, but I think it's hard to differentiate a lot of these Sith. I might try to revisit this thread later this week diving more in-depth. The general gist is, though, that 4-10 all have statements or performances putting them either near one-another or at the upper echelon of the Dark Council, and Scourge notes that the most powerful Dark Councillors would pose a combative threat to the Voice (who should be even more powerful than the Vitiate seen in the Revan novel). 

I'm excluding Darth Nihilus, Tulak Hord, and the Dread Masters, although the Dread would be #1 otherwise. Ancient Sith like Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, etc. probably don't make the cut. I would put all the listed characters above Darth Tenebrous and the preceding Banites. My reasoning is outlined here: 

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t2804-a-case-for-the-neo-antediluvians


Awesome work on that thread
I’ve been making a list too based on this scaling you’ve opened me up to I’m still trying to figure out some placements as idk how the sith from this era compare to the ancients would they too be above the Banites
Also would u hold Brotherhood of darkness sith, just underneath banites or below old republic sith, I always get confused as to them, we should make a thread to actually find out a good top sith list using all these scaling methods
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
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Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 2:56 am
@Halcylx: This is a contentious subject between myself and @LadyKulvax, but if you hold Darth Malak to possess powers "far greater than" Exar Kun (scan of quote below), then what you have is basically a chain of: Darth Malgus > Voice of the Emperor > Darth Malak > Exar Kun > Freedon Nadd > Darth Tenebrous > prior Banites.

Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith 6424636-2580550003-Darth

You'll find arguments concerning this quote across Suspect Insight, since its potential ramifications are vast. To summarize, though, I hold that the quote clear-cut puts Malak above Kun: the question is not whether Malak is more powerful than Kun but why he is more powerful than Kun, and the usage of power concerns his personal powers (hence why cybernetic enhancement is a valid but too simple an explanation). This quote was both double-checked and twice-over personally endorsed by Leland Chee, the head of Lucasfilm Licensing, so it's canon status is very high. Meanwhile, @LadyKulvax holds that the usage of powers is vague, particularly because the author of the quote says powers there refers to multiple factors including military might and political power, and instead refers to spirit Exar Kun's fights against Luke and statements arguably binding Exar Kun above Vitiate circa the Great Sith War from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia as better indication of Kun's abilities. I hope @LadyKulvax views my characterization of both sides fair here, because I don't want this thread to be derailed into another Malak vs Kun debate. Like I said, you'll surely come across countless threads with arguments over this topic for you to eventually develop a fully informed stance on it if you stick around with us. 

Also, note that my Neo-Antediluvians blog does not put Freedon Nadd above peak Darth Plagueis, just Tenebrous and prior Banites. Plagueis is far more powerful than Tenebrous and potentially far more powerful than Nadd as well. Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith 1289255181
LadyKulvax
LadyKulvax
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Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 3:05 am
Yeah that take is a fair assessment of stances.

As far as the Plagueis quote goes. I still take the inferred gap Plagueis describes (I.E. likening what Sadow can do to trying to stop a raging river with a sponge) as very indicative of even Sadow having a massive lead over Tenebrous and Plagueis himself, as of when the statement is made(67BBY). When you consider the possibility that Sadow gained power naturally whilst in stasis over the centuries; after the point at which he is able to do what Plagueis describes. Then Naga Sadow is probably a lot closer to Plagueis than we thought at first-glance. Then we get Nadd surpassing him before a century of power growth.

It's a very distinctive line of power scaling, to be fair.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
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on October 12th 2020, 3:05 am
@Vaelias: Thanks man. Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith 1289255181 

Also would u hold Brotherhood of darkness sith, just underneath banites or below old republic sith, I always get confused as to them, we should make a thread to actually find out a good top sith list using all these scaling methods

Bane's far more powerful than any member of the Brotherhood but the weakest of the Banites, so I would put the Brotherhood quite low on the totem poll.
Halcylx
Halcylx

Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 3:13 am
@DarthAnt66 wrote:@Halcylx: This is a contentious subject between myself and @LadyKulvax, but if you hold Darth Malak to possess powers "far greater than" Exar Kun (scan of quote below), then what you have is basically a chain of: Darth Malgus > Voice of the Emperor > Darth Malak > Exar Kun > Freedon Nadd > Darth Tenebrous > prior Banites.

Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith 6424636-2580550003-Darth

You'll find arguments concerning this quote across Suspect Insight, since its potential ramifications are vast. To summarize, though, I hold that the quote clear-cut puts Malak above Kun: the question is not whether Malak is more powerful than Kun but why he is more powerful than Kun, and the usage of power concerns his personal powers (hence why cybernetic enhancement is a valid but too simple an explanation). This quote was both double-checked and twice-over personally endorsed by Leland Chee, the head of Lucasfilm Licensing, so it's canon status is very high. Meanwhile, @LadyKulvax holds that the usage of powers is vague, particularly because the author of the quote says powers there refers to multiple factors including military might and political power, and instead refers to spirit Exar Kun's fights against Luke and statements arguably binding Exar Kun above Vitiate circa the Great Sith War from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia as better indication of Kun's abilities. I hope @LadyKulvax views my characterization of both sides fair here, because I don't want this thread to be derailed into another Malak vs Kun debate. Like I said, you'll surely come across countless threads with arguments over this debate topic for you to eventually develop a fully informed stance on it if you stick around with us. 

Also, note that my Neo-Antediluvians blog does not put Freedon Nadd above peak Darth Plagueis, just Tenebrous and prior Banites. Plagueis is far more powerful than Tenebrous and potentially far more powerful than Nadd as well. Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith 1289255181

Yeh for sure dude an I’v been reading for a while but Havnt actually posted lol
I think I do agree with Kulvax on that Malak > Kun quote, I hold Kun as the third most powerful sith after Sidious and Krayt, I think through all this scaling Kun could even be compared to ROTJ Sidious
And I think Kun should definitely be held above Vitiate

“The Emperor lies beaten at your feat. For all his power, he was no match for you”

This puts HOT above Vitiate

Exar Kun is attacked by a Leviathan and effortlessly overcomes the song of sadows great Sith amulet

Kun easily overcomes it
Minor amulets can create protective shields, knit injured flesh, sharpen battle focus, or energize weakened muscles. However, great amulets are priceless and often unique. Users must first overcome the amulet's seductive song. For if they can't, they will be forever lost to dark side insanity. I have acquired many of these prizes for myself, but I remain restless knowing that many more lie locked in the tombs of Korriban.
: Darth Sidious, Book of Sith

Darth Nox, the Empire's Wrath, the third Barsen'thor and the Hero of Tython as of Shadow of Revan Where all overwhelmed by it

You found a talisman on Yavin IV. It seems to have some connection to Naga Sadow.
You're frozen and cannot move.
Credit: Shadow of Revan, Ancient Threat

Shouldn’t this scale Kun above all of these including HOT who was > Vitiate

LadyKulvax
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Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 3:20 am
Well, I can tell you Ant's stance and I'd probably agree with it. They all aren't driven insane by the talisman so obviously that's not by itself an indication of inferiority on the part of the SOR cast. But I'd say it does give a very broad estimate as to where the cross-era beings stand.

Moreover, it's really not anything to focus on if you want to argue Kun's placement compared to the SOR cast. Read my RT for that.
Vaelias
Vaelias

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on October 12th 2020, 3:22 am
@DarthAnt66 wrote:@Vaelias: Thanks man. Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith 1289255181 

Also would u hold Brotherhood of darkness sith, just underneath banites or below old republic sith, I always get confused as to them, we should make a thread to actually find out a good top sith list using all these scaling methods

Bane's far more powerful than any member of the Brotherhood but the weakest of the Banites, so I would put the Brotherhood quite low on the totem poll.

Even below the likes of some lesser known Old republic sith like Ravage, also wouldn’t u hold bane above at least a majority of the banite line considering his prime was far more powerful than the version of zannah that killed him

Also considering Karness Murrs Spirit was said to be more powerful than Vong Krayt and Karness Murr is arguably the weakest of the Acient sith, apart from Remulus perhaps, that puts the ancients realllly high

If you would take a look at my thread from earlier today where I ponder on where to place maul, I’m really struggling there hahaha placing maul is very difficult
PlagTheDarth
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Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 5:47 am
I could see an argument for Darth Baras being up there with Malgus and the Wrath in Ant’s post, though I agree with his post for the most part.

It gets more challenging rating the Sith below as the logical next level would be other Dark Council members, but not many that aren’t already named have many showings if any at all combatively (or accolades to base off of). We get Vengean, Eckhage (probably spelled her name wrong), Thanaton, and Arkous + Nyriss and Xedrik out of the ones with any real meaningful info. Acina may have some usable material, but I’d have to do research into that to say for sure.
Vaelias
Vaelias

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on October 12th 2020, 6:16 am
I’m gonna start making a thread on this topic where we’ll go into this more, taking into account all this scaling
But can we all agree that For the most part

1.Ancients/some banites
2. Lost tribe (vol)/ One sith
3. banites
4. SWTOR/KOTOR
5.Brotherhood of darkness
6. Fodder sith

Or does anyone disagree, would u put the TOR sith over banites
And can we agree that the lost tribe and one sith would be scattered around but likely high on the ranks considering gradual power growth
HellfireUnit
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Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 12th 2020, 9:31 am
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Nihilus at the bottom, that is for sure.
Nute_Chethray
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on October 12th 2020, 11:50 am
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
Welcome to the forum, I hope you enjoy your stay. 

Ant, Plag and LadyKulvax already ranked most of the sith I'll mention in a similar order, but lets see. 

1. Nihilus

Note that Nihilus is only 1 because of his ability to draw power off of whoever he faces, in terms of his own power I'm not sure where I'd rank him. Likely roughly where LadyKulvax had him.  

2. Wrath/Nox (Outlander versions)
3. Malgus
4. Voice of the Emperor/Novel Vitiate
5. Darth Malak

6. Darth Marr
7. Darth Revan
8. Darth Baras
9. The First Son

Note: these four rankings are interchangeable. 

10. SF Bastilla

Note: other sith like Exal Kressh, Darth Jadus, Traya, Thanaton, Lord Draahg, etc. are also contenders for 10. Darth Soverus (who Ant mentioned is also possible, but due to my lack of knowledge of him he's not listed). There could be made arguments for Sion to make the list purely due to his immortality, but I'm not sure enough on him to do so.
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 13th 2020, 1:02 am
im not sure if anybody mentioned this already, but ill say it anyways

1- i think bane's era is still TOR
2- why arent kun and his second in command who loved some pussy not considered here?
CuckedCurry
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Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 13th 2020, 1:11 am
Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith 39523600
lorenzo.r.2nd
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Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 13th 2020, 1:35 am
i now get the feeling that this is only for the games lol
Vaelias
Vaelias

Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith Empty Re: Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

on October 13th 2020, 3:27 am
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:im not sure if anybody mentioned this already, but ill say it anyways

1- i think bane's era is still TOR
2- why arent kun and his second in command who loved some pussy not considered here?

Yeh it’s not the whole era more just the games and books based around those games
Master Azronger
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on October 24th 2020, 3:20 pm
@Halcylx Welcome to the forum. From where do you hail?

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Master Azronger
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on October 24th 2020, 3:24 pm
@DarthAnt66 What's the statement from Scourge saying the Dark Councillors are a threat to the Voice of the Emperor?

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LadyKulvax
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on October 24th 2020, 3:37 pm
It's his statement saying that any Sith who were a threat were either eliminated or co-opted into the Dark Council. It's a weird one, too.
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