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The Slick Obi
The Slick Obi

Your top 10 most powerful characters (Canon Only) - Page 2 Empty Re: Your top 10 most powerful characters (Canon Only)

on March 23rd 2020, 3:47 pm
@IG wrote:@Rohirrim I’d presume that we’re ranking by overall combat proficiency.
Your presumption is correct.
Rohirrim
Rohirrim

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on March 23rd 2020, 3:58 pm
@Galan007 wrote:
@BoD wrote:IU sources are rarely trustworthy. In any case, that was Palps with "all of the Sith", not just his own power.
Indeed.

But it was still power that Palpatine personally held. Ergo the #1 spot.

The lines are somewhat blurred as to what "personally held" power really is, and I think it makes for an interesting discussion.

Force users have been described as doors through which the Force flows, and the wider those doors are open, the greater power they can command. To me, it sounds like Palpatine, much like Rey, managed to open themselves in such a way that the power of all the Sith/Jedi (which would be contained in the Cosmic Force) could flow through them. It's a kind of self-amp, so they would indeed hold that power even if it wasn't originally "their own".

Now, it's debatable whether Rey could amp herself at will the way Palpatine did. Personally, I placed her at #1 because I think it's thematically implied that she learned how to do it, both through movie dialogue and the recurring narrative trope of the apprentice initially failing to do something only to learn how to do it by the end of the story. But those are just my two cents.
Galan007
Galan007

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on March 23rd 2020, 4:11 pm
@Rohirrim wrote:Now, it's debatable whether Rey could amp herself at will the way Palpatine did. Personally, I placed her at #1 because I think it's thematically implied that she learned how to do it, both through movie dialogue and the recurring narrative trope of the apprentice initially failing to do something only to learn how to do it by the end of the story. But those are just my two cents.
See, I interpreted it more as a one-off/oneness moment for Rey.

Granted, she had to connect to the Jedi past, but it still seemed like they also had to willingly connect with her. I personally don't think it is something that she would be able to preform again on the fly, unless she were to face a threat equally as dire.

Palpatine, on the other hand, seemed to have found a way to fully harness/control the power of all the Sith, and was acting as *the* vessel for that cumulative power. Moreover, he was evidently capable of transferring this 'Omni-Sith' essence into other, suitable vessels(which is what would've happened to Rey had she killed him.)
The Slick Obi
The Slick Obi

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on March 23rd 2020, 4:12 pm
@BoD wrote:@The Slick Obi How in the name of Ant's left tit do you have Dooku > Vader? Or Luke, Anakin or Obi-Wan above him?
Well, Luke is above him because of the obvious: he bested him in combat (nothing strictly in canon states that Vader was holding back at all). As for the other four, I hold the films & Lucas' word above all other forms of canon (I'm stubborn like that) and Vader was supposed to be a shadow of his former demi-godly self (due to his injuries dampening his connection to force). So that is why I place Anakin, Obi-Wan, & Dooku above him. Although I do believe that the gap between him & Dooku is smallish.
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

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on March 23rd 2020, 4:13 pm
@The Slick Obi wrote:
@BoD wrote:@The Slick Obi How in the name of Ant's left tit do you have Dooku > Vader? Or Luke, Anakin or Obi-Wan above him?
Well, Luke is above him because of the obvious: he bested him in combat (nothing strictly in canon states that Vader was holding back at all). As for the other four, I hold the films & Lucas' word above all other forms of canon (I'm stubborn like that) and Vader was supposed to be a shadow of his former demi-godly self (due to his injuries dampening his connection to force). So that is why I place Anakin, Obi-Wan, & Dooku above him. Although I do believe that the gap between him & Dooku is smallish.
G-Canon doesn't exist in Disney canon.
The Slick Obi
The Slick Obi

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on March 23rd 2020, 4:16 pm
@IG wrote:
@The Slick Obi wrote:
@BoD wrote:@The Slick Obi How in the name of Ant's left tit do you have Dooku > Vader? Or Luke, Anakin or Obi-Wan above him?
Well, Luke is above him because of the obvious: he bested him in combat (nothing strictly in canon states that Vader was holding back at all). As for the other four, I hold the films & Lucas' word above all other forms of canon (I'm stubborn like that) and Vader was supposed to be a shadow of his former demi-godly self (due to his injuries dampening his connection to force). So that is why I place Anakin, Obi-Wan, & Dooku above him. Although I do believe that the gap between him & Dooku is smallish.
G-Canon doesn't exist in Disney canon.

I know, hence why I added the 'i'm stubborn like that' 😜.
Rohirrim
Rohirrim

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on March 23rd 2020, 4:17 pm
@Galan007: I get what you're saying, though I don't see any reason for the Jedi not to empower her again (apart from the Force ghosts, did the others even have conciousness of their own?). My interpretation is different, but I acknowledge yours is solid.
The Slick Obi
The Slick Obi

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on March 23rd 2020, 4:24 pm
I personally do not think Rey's 'All Jedi' amp should count as her own power because of one reason: she died after using it. Like Big Papa Palps clone body, she could not handle the power. But he managed to live years before being rejuvenated. She died the moment she stopped exerting herself. If that didn't happen, she would have been number 2 on my list.
Rohirrim
Rohirrim

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on March 23rd 2020, 4:29 pm
@The Slick Obi: To be fair, she was already too weak to move before she connected to the Jedi, so her dying to exertion is somewhat expectable regardless of her body being able to handle the power, and Palpatine also stated that she was the perfect vessel for the power of all the Sith earlier in the novel.
Galan007
Galan007

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on March 23rd 2020, 4:31 pm
@Rohirrim wrote:@Galan007: I get what you're saying, though I don't see any reason for the Jedi not to empower her again (apart from the Force ghosts, did the others even have conciousness of their own?). My interpretation is different, but I acknowledge yours is solid.
Fair enough.

As for the consciousness thing: the fact that Kanan, Mace, Luminara, etc. were also heard speaking to Rey(despite not being proper Force Spirits themselves) suggests that the Jedi still had some form of consciousness... In that moment, at least.
The Slick Obi
The Slick Obi

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on March 23rd 2020, 4:57 pm
@Rohirrim wrote:@The Slick Obi: To be fair, she was already too weak to move before she connected to the Jedi, so her dying to exertion is somewhat expectable regardless of her body being able to handle the power, and Palpatine also stated that she was the perfect vessel for the power of all the Sith earlier in the novel.
Hmmmm, good point.
BoD
BoD
Level Six
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on March 23rd 2020, 6:22 pm
Well, Luke is above him because of the obvious: he bested him in combat (nothing strictly in canon states that Vader was holding back at all).

Vader is noted by Pablo to be in his emotional prime in Rebels. He's explicitly noted to have started being affected by Anakin returning after this.




As for the other four, I hold the films & Lucas' word above all other forms of canon (I'm stubborn like that) and Vader was supposed to be a shadow of his former demi-godly self (due to his injuries dampening his connection to force). So that is why I place Anakin, Obi-Wan, & Dooku above him.

That was explicitly talking about when he was Sidious' equal and his potential. None of those put Anakin (as of ROTS, that is), Obi-Wan or Dooku above him.




Although I do believe that the gap between him & Dooku is smallish.

Honestly, every feat Dooku has performed, Vader has either replicated or completely outdone.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Two
Level Two

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on March 23rd 2020, 7:38 pm
@BoD wrote:
Well, Luke is above him because of the obvious: he bested him in combat (nothing strictly in canon states that Vader was holding back at all).

Vader is noted by Pablo to be in his emotional prime in Rebels. He's explicitly noted to have started being affected by Anakin returning after this.


i usually believe u for this kinda thing, but ive never heard of this before. source please? i mean, i knew he was in his prime during rebels, ive read about that before, but i dont remember anything about him declining.

As for the other four, I hold the films & Lucas' word above all other forms of canon (I'm stubborn like that) and Vader was supposed to be a shadow of his former demi-godly self (due to his injuries dampening his connection to force). So that is why I place Anakin, Obi-Wan, & Dooku above him.

That was explicitly talking about when he was Sidious' equal and his potential. None of those put Anakin (as of ROTS, that is), Obi-Wan or Dooku above him.


not to mention that it doesnt seem like canon anakin is a god like he used to be in legends either. plus, old ben in canon isnt as weak either. i gotta find it again, but i remember one interview on maul vs old ben in which he says that ben isnt this old weak deserted man, he's still a warrior.

Although I do believe that the gap between him & Dooku is smallish.

Honestly, every feat Dooku has performed, Vader has either replicated or completely outdone.

he doesnt need feats when accolades do the job tbh lol
BoD
BoD
Level Six
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on March 23rd 2020, 8:01 pm

i usually believe u for this kinda thing, but ive never heard of this before. source please? i mean, i knew he was in his prime during rebels, ive read about that before, but i dont remember anything about him declining.

@Lorenzo.r.2nd https://youtu.be/mTkd0MKEm2I?t=130

"There is no reason for it to come out until he's exposed to Luke."



not to mention that it doesnt seem like canon anakin is a god like he used to be in legends either. plus, old ben in canon isnt as weak either. i gotta find it again, but i remember one interview on maul vs old ben in which he says that ben isnt this old weak deserted man, he's still a warrior.

You're talking about this, probably:

https://youtu.be/8eIZsJsck7A?t=506


he doesnt need feats when accolades do the job tbh lol

If you're talking about accolades, I don't think the Count has a single one putting him > Vader. Likewise, Vader has no direct comparison made between him and Dooku.
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

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on March 24th 2020, 3:58 pm
@BoD wrote:Why is Vader > Windu on many people's lists?

Because in canon Vader arguably has better feats than canon Windu excluding the office fight against Sidious. 

In Legends Windu > Vader for sure though. I did a video on it.
BoD
BoD
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on March 24th 2020, 4:01 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Right, but he has the office fight, which is enough to offset Vader's wider array of feats since he has little if anything on that level.
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray

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on March 24th 2020, 4:14 pm
1. Sidious 
2. Luke
3. Vader
4. Yoda
5. Ravna
6. Dooku
7. Mace
8. Kenobi
9. Ahsoka
10. Kylo Ren


Last edited by Nute_Chethray on March 25th 2020, 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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on March 24th 2020, 4:25 pm
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:
@BoD wrote:Why is Vader > Windu on many people's lists?

Because in canon Vader arguably has better feats than canon Windu excluding the office fight against Sidious. 

In Legends Windu > Vader for sure though. I did a video on it.
i would say exatcly the opposite but ok lol
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

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on March 24th 2020, 5:48 pm
@BoD wrote:Right, but he has the office fight, which is enough to offset Vader's wider array of feats since he has little if anything on that level.

That's true. However, one could still make the debate whether Sidious threw the fight or not. Even going by the film Sidious holds his blade out to Mace and doesn't strike him down so I've never taken Mace beating him literally. 

But yeah, canon Windu VS Vader is definitely even at the least.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
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on March 24th 2020, 6:36 pm
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:
@BoD wrote:Why is Vader > Windu on many people's lists?

Because in canon Vader arguably has better feats than canon Windu excluding the office fight against Sidious. 

In Legends Windu > Vader for sure though. I did a video on it.
i would say exatcly the opposite but ok lol
same here
Gianfi
Gianfi

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on March 25th 2020, 11:16 am
@Galan007 wrote:Excluding the Mortis Gods...

1.) RoS Palpatine: Kylo stated that he was more powerful than anyone he had ever encountered(which automatically scales him above Luke/Snoke)... And that was when Palpatine was still in his rotting clone body.

2.) Post-RotJ Luke: Was already Vader's equal in RotJ. He then spent yearS scouring the galaxy for any Jedi-related material he could get his hands on -- including Jocasta Nu's cache, as well as the High Republic vault. He also studied the ancient texts, and communed with the spirits of Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin. Point being: canon ST-era Luke would have logically been one of(if not *the*) most knowledgeable Force users ever in the mythos... And if he was able to reach Vader's level in the 3 years between ESB and RotJ without any real guidance other than his training with Kenobi and Yoda, just imagine the levels he ascended to when he obtained the greatest wealth of Force-related knowledge in the galaxy, and had a few decades to study/master what he learned.

3.) Snoke: Luke heavily implied that he was equal to [RotJ] Palpatine.

4.) Bendu: His placement depends how literally you take Vader's statement that Palpatine was more powerful.

5.) Yoda: Roughly equal to RotS Sidious, and generally regarded as the most powerful Jedi up to that point.

6.) Vader: Nothing in canon suggests that his power did anything but increase over the years. He might also be higher on the list, depending on what you think the discrepancy in power was between he and Palpatine.

7.) Mace: Most sources state/imply that he bested Palpatine in combat.

8.) DD Vos: He was ~/> Dooku.

9.) Dooku: Extremely powerful, obviously, but still 2x weaker than Yoda (during AotC, at least.)

10.) Kenobi



...Something like that.
This is likely the best list, anyone else is just missing Vos for some reason
Heathen
Heathen

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on March 25th 2020, 8:04 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
EDIT 2:  fffffffff Just saw this:  "Going off only: The films, CG series', & all other media post-Disney acquisition, what does your Top 10 look like? QUICK NOTE: By powerful I mean a mixture of skill & raw Force power."
Therefore:

NEW & REVISED LIST:



  1. Mortis Anakin
  2. Father
  3. Son
  4. Daughter
  5. Bendu
  6. ROS Sidious
  7. TLJ Luke
  8. ROTJ Vader (or whichever version you consider prime)
  9. Yoda
  10. TLJ Snoke/Talzin/Dyad(?)/Rebels Ahsoka/Maul/Savage Opress



NEW NUMBER 10, possibly fifth place:  The Dyad

EDIT 3 - Note on Removing everyone from tenth position and placing The Dyad higher:  I just saw this quote from @galan007 


ROS novelization wrote:"Kylo Ren brought down a mental curtain to cut off their connection. Just in time, for he could hardly contain his sense of triumph.
The Emperor was terrified of Rey. Of her power. Once she accepted her destiny as part of their dyad, they would be unstoppable."




  
Note on adding Ahsoka:  "Blow for blow with Vader and Sidious" as of three years prior to the Battle of Yavin.
Note on Absence of Windu and Dooku:  These versions of Yoda and Sidious are beyond their TCW versions.  Windu and Sidious can only be scaled off TCW/ROTS versions of them.
Note on adding Maul and Savage: Canonically and published outright saying Dooku lost to Savage with sabers.  Canonically and published Maul > Dooku. Matt Martin said the rankings were for TPM Maul, but I'll be nice and say SOD Maul. Savage is a "monster" in the Force.  Maul's raw power > Talzin.  Before anyone brings up the conditional use of Talzin's power, when she was in the right location, her power was immense, and Maul's potential > hers.  Potential =/= Raw, but this is where I can't help but revert back to Legends which outright says his raw power was higher than Tyranus'.  We don't need to include Legends, and I'm adding because it is a good reference as a back up to canon statement.
Note on the Dyad:  Rey and Ren combined did not defeat Snoke, however, their bond and their individual powers increased by ROS, therefore it is plausible that as the Dyad, their synergy is more powerful as of ROS than Snoke.





EDIT:  I am answering this question based on power and not fighting prowess since the question only asks about the most powerful.  And BTW, I need some love, please.  Please give me a star. 





I posted this answer for the same question on another website.  I now would like to learn more about Bendu's power (I just posted a question asking about it here), and I'd like to compare Talzin's and Snoke's power (given he was about ROTS Sidious).  In this other question, I placed Snoke on the list but not Talzin because her power was dependent upon her location, which was greatly limited. However, I guess power is power, and I might need to list her next to Snoke.  Or maybe remove them altogether.  Maybe neither of them are strong enough.  I need to add Bendu because I included The Ones.  I also question the Dyad's power, as a single entity (asked more about here), but it is more powerful than Rey or Ren as individuals and also combined. 


Possible/Revised List:

Mortis Anakin
Father
Son
Daughter
Bendu
ROS Sidious
TLJ Luke
ROTJ Vader (or whichever version you consider prime)
ROTS Yoda
TLJ Snoke/Talzin/Dyad





Original List:

I’d say the ten most powerful Force users in Canon Star Wars* are (not including the new High Republic series because these characters shouldn't be as powerful):


  1. Jedi Knight Anakin on Mortis - The question asks who were the most powerful ever in canon, and although Anakin was only briefly at his full potential, he did achieve it. Anakin was “at least” equal to Father. We don’t know but he could have been stronger.
  2. Father
  3. Daughter
  4. Son
  5. Darth Sidious (Emperor Palpatine)
  6. Luke Skywalker
  7. Darth Vader (Anakin Skywalker)
  8. Yoda
  9. Snoke
  10. The Dyad in the Force - The combination of Rey and Ben formed a synergistic power. I know this is two people, but their Force powers used in cooperation produced a combined effect, which was greater than the sum of the effects of their two powers alongside one another (not combined). Together, their powers were as one, but amplified.


*The first five are in order, but not the rest. I almost placed Mother Talzin here but decided against it because these characters are later versions of themselves and are more powerful than their versions during The Clone Wars.




Runner-Up List:

Skywalkers and Palpatines

Leia Organa (Solo ?) - I don’t know how powerful Leia is, but she should be very powerful considering she is Anakin’s daughter.

Ben Solo (Kylo Ren)

Rey (Paplatine) Skywalker





I don’t know how the above three would compare to the following:

Jedi Master Quinlan Vos

Jedi Master Mace Windu

Jedi Master Kirak Infil'a - The most formidable Jedi Vader had ever faced to date, but he was the first Jedi whom Vader fought after being newly placed in his suit. However, unsuited Vader had fought and killed Cin Drallig, and he had fought and lost to Obi-Wan Kenobi, who was quite powerful.

Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi

Ahsoka Tano

Mother Talzin - She didn't have much power in places that weren't steeped in the Living Force, such as Dathomir, but her power neared Sidious’ during The Clone Wars.

Maul (Darth Maul)

Darth Tyranus (Count Dooku)

Savage Opress

Darth Plagueis - He could manipulate midichlorians.

Momin - He was able to remain alive for millennia as a spirit possessing a mask.

Darth Bane - We don’t know how powerful Bane is in canon, but we know he established the Rule of Two.
Heathen
Heathen

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on March 25th 2020, 8:56 pm
NEW LIST
UPDATED AND REVISED


  1. Mortis Anakin
  2. Father
  3. Son
  4. Daughter
  5. The Dyad
  6. ROS Sidious
  7. TLJ Luke
  8. ROTJ Vader
  9. TLJ Snoke
  10. Bendu
Nute_Chethray
Nute_Chethray

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on March 26th 2020, 1:09 pm
@Gianfi wrote:
@Galan007 wrote:Excluding the Mortis Gods...

1.) RoS Palpatine: Kylo stated that he was more powerful than anyone he had ever encountered(which automatically scales him above Luke/Snoke)... And that was when Palpatine was still in his rotting clone body.

2.) Post-RotJ Luke: Was already Vader's equal in RotJ. He then spent yearS scouring the galaxy for any Jedi-related material he could get his hands on -- including Jocasta Nu's cache, as well as the High Republic vault. He also studied the ancient texts, and communed with the spirits of Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin. Point being: canon ST-era Luke would have logically been one of(if not *the*) most knowledgeable Force users ever in the mythos... And if he was able to reach Vader's level in the 3 years between ESB and RotJ without any real guidance other than his training with Kenobi and Yoda, just imagine the levels he ascended to when he obtained the greatest wealth of Force-related knowledge in the galaxy, and had a few decades to study/master what he learned.

3.) Snoke: Luke heavily implied that he was equal to [RotJ] Palpatine.

4.) Bendu: His placement depends how literally you take Vader's statement that Palpatine was more powerful.

5.) Yoda: Roughly equal to RotS Sidious, and generally regarded as the most powerful Jedi up to that point.

6.) Vader: Nothing in canon suggests that his power did anything but increase over the years. He might also be higher on the list, depending on what you think the discrepancy in power was between he and Palpatine.

7.) Mace: Most sources state/imply that he bested Palpatine in combat.

8.) DD Vos: He was ~/> Dooku.

9.) Dooku: Extremely powerful, obviously, but still 2x weaker than Yoda (during AotC, at least.)

10.) Kenobi



...Something like that.
This is likely the best list, anyone else is just missing Vos for some reason
I specifically voided Vos since I wasn't sure how to rank him as I haven't read the novel. Forgot to say
Heathen
Heathen

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on March 26th 2020, 5:30 pm
@Nute_Chethray wrote:
@Gianfi wrote:
@Galan007 wrote:Excluding the Mortis Gods...

1.) RoS Palpatine: Kylo stated that he was more powerful than anyone he had ever encountered(which automatically scales him above Luke/Snoke)... And that was when Palpatine was still in his rotting clone body.

2.) Post-RotJ Luke: Was already Vader's equal in RotJ. He then spent yearS scouring the galaxy for any Jedi-related material he could get his hands on -- including Jocasta Nu's cache, as well as the High Republic vault. He also studied the ancient texts, and communed with the spirits of Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin. Point being: canon ST-era Luke would have logically been one of(if not *the*) most knowledgeable Force users ever in the mythos... And if he was able to reach Vader's level in the 3 years between ESB and RotJ without any real guidance other than his training with Kenobi and Yoda, just imagine the levels he ascended to when he obtained the greatest wealth of Force-related knowledge in the galaxy, and had a few decades to study/master what he learned.

3.) Snoke: Luke heavily implied that he was equal to [RotJ] Palpatine.

4.) Bendu: His placement depends how literally you take Vader's statement that Palpatine was more powerful.

5.) Yoda: Roughly equal to RotS Sidious, and generally regarded as the most powerful Jedi up to that point.

6.) Vader: Nothing in canon suggests that his power did anything but increase over the years. He might also be higher on the list, depending on what you think the discrepancy in power was between he and Palpatine.

7.) Mace: Most sources state/imply that he bested Palpatine in combat.

8.) DD Vos: He was ~/> Dooku.

9.) Dooku: Extremely powerful, obviously, but still 2x weaker than Yoda (during AotC, at least.)

10.) Kenobi



...Something like that.
This is likely the best list, anyone else is just missing Vos for some reason
I specifically voided Vos since I wasn't sure how to rank him as I haven't read the novel. Forgot to say
There were 3 duels between Vos and Dooku in the book.  He lost the first.  He learned to use the dark side.  He defeated Dooku in the second fight - straight up - and on Dooku's territory (his ship).  The third, they were all in bad shape, and I wouldn't use it to determine a winner or to scale.  Either way, Vos overwhelmed Dooku in sabers.  DD Vos should > Dooku, and this is toward the end of the war.
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