Re: Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only)

February 23rd 2020, 7:24 pm

IG wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:Prove that Maul and Savage are above Vader.

Resurrection

Explain because I don’t get it

February 23rd 2020, 7:25 pm

IG wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:Prove that Maul and Savage are above Vader.

Resurrection

No no he said proof. Proof means an argument more powerful than simple intent of a non canon source Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 1076326320

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 1076326320

February 23rd 2020, 7:25 pm

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

IG wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:Prove that Maul and Savage are above Vader.

Resurrection

Explain

Maul easily defeats Vader in the Resurrection comic, whose intent was solely to decide the debate between (TPM) Maul and Vader. Vader's victory is through a cheapshot (impaling himself with his own lightsaber and taking Maul out in the process). It's evident Maul's power and skill is better in the comic, however.

February 23rd 2020, 7:27 pm

IG wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:Maul everytime

Why

TCW Maul >>> S4 Savage >> S4 Maul ~ TPM Maul > Vader << SK.

i just got cancer after hearing that scaling chain..... jesus also the resurrection comic is just pure salt and a irrelevant source.

February 23rd 2020, 7:32 pm

Still not canon nor any proof the fight wasn't an illusion/vision.

February 23rd 2020, 7:33 pm

IG wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

IG wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:Prove that Maul and Savage are above Vader.

Resurrection

Explain

Maul easily defeats Vader in the Resurrection comic, whose intent was solely to decide the debate between (TPM) Maul and Vader. Vader's victory is through a cheapshot (impaling himself with his own lightsaber and taking Maul out in the process). It's evident Maul's power and skill is better in the comic, however.

INTENT!
.
There is only one reason you are able to get away with arguments like this, and that is because you debate in a close-minded setting with like minded individuals, try arguing the INTENT! of Exar Kun being the most powerful Sith lord ever and it wouldn't work. Keep your arguments airtight, don't reach just because you can.

February 23rd 2020, 7:33 pm Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)

IG wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:Prove that Maul and Savage are above Vader.

Resurrection

>Says Chee's opinion on Ben>Vader is a fact

>Also considers Resurrection to be Canon

At least don't be a goddamn hyprocrite IG.

February 23rd 2020, 7:35 pm

IG wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

IG wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:Prove that Maul and Savage are above Vader.

Resurrection

Explain

Maul easily defeats Vader in the Resurrection comic, whose intent was solely to decide the debate between (TPM) Maul and Vader. Vader's victory is through a cheapshot (impaling himself with his own lightsaber and taking Maul out in the process). It's evident Maul's power and skill is better in the comic, however.

So many flaws I'm going to need a forge as hot as Vitiate's lightning to beat them out of this.

February 23rd 2020, 7:40 pm

>Says Chee's opinion on Ben>Vader is a fact wrote:

Who is Chee and when did he say Old Ben is > Vader?

February 23rd 2020, 7:40 pm

[quote="BoD"]

Still not canon nor any proof the fight wasn't an illusion/vision.

Agreed

February 23rd 2020, 7:43 pm

HellfireUnit wrote:

IG wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:Prove that Maul and Savage are above Vader.

Resurrection

>Says Chee's opinion on Ben>Vader is a fact

>Also considers Resurrection to be Canon

At least don't be a goddamn hyprocrite IG.

Never said it was canon, just that its intent was to establish the winner of Maul v Vader, and that it's supported in like fifty different places, including the cover, the SW.com summary, etc.

February 23rd 2020, 7:44 pm

i doesnt really matter non canon fight the argument still stands

February 23rd 2020, 7:46 pm

SW.com often has third party writers, so you're going to need to provide a source, AKA a legitimate authority.

The summary and cover are pretty clearly for promotional purposes. Give me two minutes and I can pull up about 5 other matchups from other universes (and even from SW itself) that use that sort of cover and summary.

The evidence for it being a "what would happen" is based around these two, and there are Chee quotes implying it's an illusion, vision or some other kind of trick.

February 23rd 2020, 7:47 pm

[quote="IG"]

it's supported in like fifty different places

What 50 different sources? And can I have the link to the SW.COM page?

February 24th 2020, 7:37 am

The comic itself being n-canon is irrelevant tbh

February 24th 2020, 7:43 am

BoD wrote:The evidence for it being a "what would happen" is based around these two, and there are Chee quotes implying it's an illusion, vision or some other kind of trick.

The fact that the fight is an illusion does not change anything. It can be at the same time an illusion and meant to show how a fight between Vader and Maul would go, which seems to be the obvious intent of the comic.

February 24th 2020, 8:16 am

@IG The intent of my non-canon fanfiction where Vader stomps Revan was to show how a fight between those two would go. Concede and bow down.

February 24th 2020, 8:18 am

Azronger wrote:@IG The intent of my non-canon fanfiction where Vader stomps Revan was to show how a fight between those two would go. Concede and bow down.

Only difference is that Resurrection was published as a Who-Would-Win comic and held canonicity for a while too.

February 24th 2020, 8:24 am

Azronger wrote:The intent of my non-canon fanfiction where Vader stomps Revan was to show how a fight between those two would go. Concede and bow down.

Weird, I would like to read it but I can’t find it on Wookiepedia among works published by Lucasfilm.

February 24th 2020, 8:27 am

Azronger wrote:@IG The intent of my non-canon fanfiction where Vader stomps Revan was to show how a fight between those two would go. Concede and bow down.

Never change Az.

but seriously, this argument is bogus created by Ant and his friends to circlejerk off their anti-Vader agenda. The intent of Star Wars Infinities Return of the Jedi is to show what WOULD happen if one little thing changed from the original trilogy:

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 Unknown

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 Unknown

Now, I'm sure everyone who uses this INTENT! argument would disagree with ROTJ Vader stomping Luke when he decided to put in more effort, but obviously the INTENT! is that this is the same universe with just a SINGLE thing different:

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 K4cENUHuURFCQ9hjp0hfd31olhk1Mn7m1XHz3tzcwQ48Lnn1D30a9qd-r2pPIf6vW-CbVBs7oU9ws1600

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 K4cENUHuURFCQ9hjp0hfd31olhk1Mn7m1XHz3tzcwQ48Lnn1D30a9qd-r2pPIf6vW-CbVBs7oU9ws1600

So, I'm fully willing for Maul to be > Vader if you accept that Vader is also > Yoda, as shown by the INTENT! of Infinities
Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 Gt6FA77wiHjQ1vvTKZLVVBo2F4OLbRi3UQqS-7DcUZ-9y-9K1sG7293shWL1yibWL3MmAzlstZXm=s1600

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 Gt6FA77wiHjQ1vvTKZLVVBo2F4OLbRi3UQqS-7DcUZ-9y-9K1sG7293shWL1yibWL3MmAzlstZXm=s1600

So yeah, Vader is < Maul based on intent and based on intent Vader is > Yoda years later.

THANKS INFINITIES!

February 24th 2020, 8:30 am

MasterCilghal wrote:

Azronger wrote:The intent of my non-canon fanfiction where Vader stomps Revan was to show how a fight between those two would go. Concede and bow down.

Weird, I would like to read it but I can’t find it on Wookiepedia among works published by Lucasfilm.

how hard did u look?

February 24th 2020, 8:58 am

IG wrote:

Azronger wrote:@IG The intent of my non-canon fanfiction where Vader stomps Revan was to show how a fight between those two would go. Concede and bow down.

Only difference is that Resurrection was published as a Who-Would-Win comic and held canonicity for a while too.

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 Resurr10

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 6647743-2147520280-65397

It was published as a non-canon "who would win" comic. And the most recent information we have also has it as non-canon. That it may have held some canonicity in the interim is of no relevance, at all.

But since you care so much about intent:

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 Vader_18

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 Image0

The intent of Ron Marz, the writer of the comic, was for Vader to be capable of soloing Maul and the prophets who resurrected him with the Force. - the prophets whose power level is likely somewhere between Tenebrous and prime Plagueis considering the strength, willpower, and arcane know-how needed to revive a person after many years with their spirit intact. On top of this, Maul was "powered up" to fight Vader, so he was more powerful here than in TPM. Since you seem to cherish intent so much, even when something is expressly not canon, I'm fully expecting you to put ANH Vader at least up there with the RotS titans and his ESB/RotJ iteration significantly higher.

February 24th 2020, 9:01 am

MasterCilghal wrote:

Azronger wrote:The intent of my non-canon fanfiction where Vader stomps Revan was to show how a fight between those two would go. Concede and bow down.

Weird, I would like to read it but I can’t find it on Wookiepedia among works published by Lucasfilm.

That's a shame. But I'm sure that among Lucasfilm's oeuvre you can find the comic where Plagueis destroys a star with midi-chlorian manipulation:

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 6014945-0610780776-60149

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 6014945-0610780776-60149

February 24th 2020, 9:19 am

IG wrote:TCW Maul >>> S4 Savage >> S4 Maul ~ TPM Maul > Vader << SK.

No:

Viewers of Star Wars: The Clone Wars know that Maul's brother Savage Opress is no slouch when it comes to fighting. But compared to Maul, even a killer like Savage takes a back seat. "Savage is fearsome," Taylor points out. "He would tear the arms off a wookiee with his teeth. But Maul is calculating, and his ability makes him a far more formidable foe." Add the fact that the two warriors share a brotherly bond, and you have a one-two punch unrivalled by another other team in the Star Wars galaxy.

Taylor finds the familial link an interesting avenue for character exploration. "Savage went looking for his brother and, to me, this is because he needed someone," he says. "There's a lot more emotional instability and rage in him. With Maul, you don't feel like he needs anyone. Maul is the only child who got all the cool presents. Savage just wants to share some of them." ― Star Wars Insider 134

Starkiller vs Darth Maul (melee combat only) - Page 2 Swi-134-082

When compared to Maul as a fighter, Savage is stated to "take a backseat" and Maul is described as "a far more formidable foe because of his ability," indicating a disparity between S4 Maul and Savage. But Star Wars Insider isn't the only source saying Maul > Savage:

Dave Filoni: And then Savage is a very poorly trained Dark Side wielder. He's all... He's all aggression and power. He's kind of like the Hulk - but he doesn't have a lot of discipline, he doesn't have a lot of know how. Maul is a super dangerous threat because he’s been trained for years, he’s really adept, but he’s broken. So he’s kind of in the Vader-realm, and he’s a bit severed from what he knew, which was having a master, but he’s well trained by Sidious in all types of Sith ways, not the least of which is manipulation.

Source ― Weekly ForceCast: May 4, 2012

Reading between the lines gives you a clear picture because Filoni is making a distinguishment between the threat levels that Maul and Savage present. Savage is a poorly trained Dark Sider that relies on sheer aggression and physical power, lacking discipline and knowledge like the typical mindless Hulk - Maul however, is a super dangerous threat so adept that he's not far off Vader because he was well trained for many years by Sidious in all Sith ways.

Ultimate Star Wars says that that Savage regrets never being Maul's equal:

"Noting the growing power of the brothers, Sidious confronts Savage Opress and Maul on Mandalore. As he dies, Opress expresses regret that he was never Maul's equal." ― Ultimate Star Wars New Edition: The Definitive Guide to the Star Wars Universe (2019).

Savage regrets that he was never being Maul's equal, meaning that he was always inferior to Maul.

February 24th 2020, 9:39 am Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)

@Azronger
So the person that sent you those screenshots left out the screenshots of the author going back and debunking everything that was said in the above tweets? Cause that was a thing lol.

No one questioned whether it was n-canon or not, it’s just irrelevant, the whole fight was made solely to show the fans what would happen if TPM Maul and ANH Vader fought. This is backed by a multitude of sources. So while yes, it never ACTUALLY happened, but if this fight ever did happen, this is how it would play out, with Maul being Vader’s clear superior.

The first screenshot seems to also being misinterpreted. The question that was being asked was not “Could Vader have possibly killed Maul + The Prophets if he attacked them directly with the force?”, the question was “Were the prophets saying that Vader could maybe kill them + Maul with the force if he attacked them directly?”. The question that was asked was to clarify what the Prophets said could happen. Not if what they were saying was correct or not.