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The Lost
The Lost
Level Five
Level Five

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 12:31 am
There are types of TP geared specifically towards 1v1 combat though.
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 12:41 am
Yes, but I am specifically talking about the "peerless" BM feats Bastila has been able to do, the problem is people are misconstruing that as her actual powers she can use in a duel.

A better example of this is Exar Kun's (alleged) Senate TP feat that is being used to establish superiority over other characters that I shall not name Caedus and creating convoluted scaling chains as a result. These types of TP are irrelevant to a 1 on 1 engagement.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 12:46 am
Bastila is a BM savant. It is for this reason that her feats with BM are not reflective of her actual power. However, the technique BM is not inherently a bad proxy for power. BM, like any other feat, only becomes a bad proxy for power if the person performing the feat is disproportionately bad or good at BM. You can't extrapolate the idea that TP is inherently a bad proxy for power by using a BM savant as evidence.
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 12:48 am
Having characters that are TP savants is the exact reason why we shouldn't use large scale TP feats to determine the outcome of a 1 on 1 duel between another force user. Kun is also a notable example of this as explained above.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 12:53 am
There are "savants" in every form of force usage per Bane. If you think the mere existence of TP savants delegitimizes using TP as a proxy for power, I hope you're ready to take this line of thought to its logical conclusion and advocate for the destruction of all feat comparisons, be it TP, TK or sorcery
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 1:02 am
Yes, I am aware of other forms of TP able to be used in a 1 on 1 encounter. The problem is when character x beats character y because character x has the better TP/BM feat, when Bastila's BM or Kun's TP doesn't come into play in an actual encounter.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 1:04 am
Note my character statistics program shows, for many/most characters, if they are TP savants or not.


Last edited by DarthAnt66 on January 14th 2020, 1:06 am; edited 1 time in total
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 1:06 am
Was that directed toward me EC?
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 1:06 am
Just a general shout-out
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 1:08 am
@KingofBlades wrote:Was that directed toward me EC?
No, unless you disagree.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 1:16 am
So you gonna respond to my post?
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 1:46 am
Its not the fact that they are savants. Like I said, the problem is when character x beats character y because character x has the better TP/BM feat, when Bastila's BM or Kun's TP hardly (if at all) comes into play in an actual encounter. 


I am not advocating for the destruction of feat comparisons, only when large TP feats are being used.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 1:59 am
A power not being useful in a 1v1 battle can still be used as an indicator for overall force power.
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 2:00 am
OT: Depends.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 2:05 am
It depends on whether someone is a savant or not. If someone Kun has a far better TP feat than another character Caedus, and neither characters are TP savants, then you could say one character is above another.
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 2:13 am
No because TP is irrelevant when determining the outcome of a 1 on 1 engagement. It does not matter if they're a savant or not.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 2:19 am
The scenario I used earlier indicated that one character was more powerful than the other. Which is really all that matters.
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 2:23 am
You are basing Kun's superior power off of his Senate TP feat (if not specify), which is not a true portrayal of his power, especially since Kun's TK feats leave more to be desired when stacked up against Caedus. TK is the true indicator of power.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 2:32 am
Of course there are circumstances that have to be considered. That's no different from any other form of force usage be it sorcery or TK. However for the sake of argument, I limited the number of variables in the comparison to make my point clear. Using Kun and Caedus was just to trigger you, I wasn't really making a case for Kun.(Though Kun probably wins) You also brought up TK being a better proxy for power. While I might agree TK is generally a stronger indicator, if no such TK feat comparison exists then using a TP comparison is just fine. Note in the case of Kun and Caedus, Kun doesn't have any TK feats to be used in a comparison. It is for this reason, that a TP comparison is so often used when debating the two characters.
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 2:44 am
The point I disagree on is when TK feats aren't found, then TP feats are fine. Kun having the better TP feat has no effect on a duel between Caedus and Kun if it were to actually happen, since it wouldn't be combatively viable in a 1 on 1 confrontation (see above). Furthermore, there are TP savants which muddy the waters of TP comparisons all together. In truth Kun was most-likely a TP savant, though that is pure conjecture based on his TP feats compared to his combative capability and in actuality is never stated unlike with Bastila.
KingofBlades
KingofBlades
Level Two
Level Two

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 3:07 am
The point I disagree on is when TK feats aren't found, then TP feats are fine. Kun having the better TP feat has no effect on a duel between Caedus and Kun if it were to actually happen, since it wouldn't be combatively viable in a 1 on 1 confrontation (see above).

Kun possessing a far superior TP feat would indicate he has greater force power. So even if his TP might not be relevant in a 1v1 battle, he can still direct his greater power into a combat effective manner. Now whether or not Caedus possesses qualities that would allow him to bridge or even overcome the power gap is up for debate.

Furthermore, there are TP savants which muddy the waters of TP comparisons all together. In truth Kun was most-likely a TP savant, though that is pure conjecture based on his TP feats compared to his combative capability and in actuality is never stated unlike with Bastila.

The existence of TP savants muddies the water no more than the existence of TK or sorcery savants. Making this point useless. Your conjecture on Kun being a TP savant is likewise useless as like you said, there isn't a scrap of evidence supporting the idea. It's just a foolish attempt at rationalizing why Kun possesses superior feats.
Dolph
Dolph
Level Three
Level Three

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 3:29 am
Kun possessing a far superior TP feat would indicate he has greater force power. So even if his TP might not be relevant in a 1v1 battle, he can still direct his greater power into a combative effective manner.

There is no evidence that Kun's superior feat in one category of the force would mean he is overall more powerful. Just because Kun lacks feats in TK (or anything else for that matter) doesn't mean you can just compare the one TP feat he has and call it a day. That's not how the force works. 

Now whether or not Caedus possesses qualities that would allow him to bridge or even overcome the power gap is up for debate

You haven't explained how Kun is more powerful than Caedus beyond one TP feat. On the other hand, Caedus scaling from Kyp Durron's Dovin Basal feat blows anything Kun has done out of the water, and with TK being the reliable source of power in the force over TP I don't see any reason to suggest Kun is more powerful. 

The existence of TP savants muddies the water no more than the existence of TK or sorcery savants.

TK savants don't exist. That is part of the reason why TK is a reliable indicator of force power over TP. 

Your conjecture on Kun being a TP savant is likewise useless as like you said, there isn't a scrap of evidence supporting the idea.

Yes it is not directly stated that he is, but him spamming TP abilities over TK (or any other) abilities leads me to believe that he is a TP savant, even with basic intuition you should understand this. 

It's just a foolish attempt at rationalizing why Kun possesses superior feats.

One superior feat in a category that isn't combatively applicable in a 1 on 1 battle.
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 5:54 am
Not necessarily, but if there’s significant difference in scale and effort when executing a single feat of the same nature, then there’s a significant difference in raw power
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 7:22 am
TK savants don't exist. That is part of the reason why TK is a reliable indicator of force power over TP.

Galen Marek begs to differ.
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

on January 14th 2020, 7:26 am
EC’s concession.
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Is there a link between telepathy and raw power? - Page 2 Empty Re: Is there a link between telepathy and raw power?

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