Mustafar!Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Mace Windu

October 13th 2019, 8:28 pm

Round 1: Sabers Only

Round 2: Force Only

Round 3: All-Out

-morals on, in character
-no preparation time for either sides
-win by death, KO, or Incapacitation
-fight takes place on Mustafar where Kenobi fought MFV

October 13th 2019, 8:34 pm

R1: Mace in a good fight if speed isn't a factor. If it is, Kenobi gets blitzed.
R2: Mace stomps.
R3: Mace.

Edit: On second thoughts, it's a good to great fight for all. Mace tends to hold back whenever fighting someone he cares about. The only time he's gone all-out is when facing Sheev. He'll still win all of the rounds, but he'll hold back considerably.

October 14th 2019, 3:45 am

Mace wins round 1. Very Very close fight if he’s not let go of his Jedi restraint. Kenobi doesn’t even have the familiarity advantage (even though they’ve likely sparred on numerous occasions) that he had with Vader. Vaapad in concept is completely alien to him, and there’s on so long he can hold on for. I don’t see Kenobi’s wrist parries or any of that shit working either.

Round 2 could probably go either way. Both are extremely powerful (Mace is far more powerful when you consider his mastery of Vaapad) but neither of them are super high-tier tk artists.

Round 3. Mace, long ass fight

October 14th 2019, 5:41 am

Mace all rounds.

October 14th 2019, 7:25 am

Kenobi wins all rounds, considering he fought evenly with tier 9 Skywalker. Great fight though

October 14th 2019, 7:32 am

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Mace all rounds.

October 14th 2019, 7:49 am

R1: Mace could lose sabers based on how Obi-Wan took down Grievous.

R2: It would be a blast fest. Neither can end it in one go. I'd have to go with Kenobi based on his better environment usage.

R3: Even split with a slight edge to Kenobi.

October 14th 2019, 9:17 am

Meatpants wrote:

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Mace all rounds.

October 14th 2019, 1:43 pm

@Meatpants @StrangerThingsFan77 @DC77 (Reborn) why Mace?

October 14th 2019, 2:40 pm

He's better on the tiering system and is stated to be a match for Dooku, who disposed of Kenobi with TK. That's good enough for me.

October 14th 2019, 2:42 pm

@Blade_of_Dorin I know I wasn't tagged, but he's more skilled, considerably more powerful if his prime version (a peer of Sheev and Yoda) and also has better physicals. He will definitely hold back so it'll be close every time, but a morals-off Mace is pretty far above any iteration of Kenobi. If it's AOTC or TCW Mace, refer to what DC said.

October 14th 2019, 4:01 pm

Hmm a tier 8 vs someone who's a tier 8 bordering 9. With no style familiarity acting as an equalizer. Hmmmm.

October 14th 2019, 4:06 pm

That tier 8 bordering on 9 thing still has to be one of the weirdest placements I've ever heard, not least cos of the gap between 8 and 9. Then again, the Making of had Mace pegged as a nine and Mace only went all-out as of the Sheev fight so he could conceivably have surpassed that border, in a similar way to Anakin (having such a mindset and operating at such a level that it pushes you past what you're currently capable of into a higher bracket you'd eventually enter into) so I'm not sure anymore.

October 14th 2019, 4:17 pm

KingofBlades wrote:Hmm a tier 8 vs someone who's a tier 8 bordering 9. With no style familiarity acting as an equalizer. Hmmmm.

Honestly the relevancy of Gillard’s tier system is questionable, especially in regards to the 2016 interview. He has contradicted himself in the past. For example in the 2011 interview he said there are only 8 levels yet refuted that later.

October 14th 2019, 4:25 pm

Yet you yourself used the tier system in your reasoning as to why Kenobi would win.

October 14th 2019, 4:27 pm

The tiering system is, per Gillard, just a guide for him when planning the choreography, e.g. to have one character be clumsier than another. It shifts to fit the narrative and AFAIK he didn't intend it as a deciding factor in whether character A can beat character B. It can be used to substantiate a case, but it should not be the deciding factor. An example for that is Dooku doing well against Yoda in AOTC, despite Dooku being an 8 and Yoda a 9 so the difference between them should be extraordinary.

October 14th 2019, 4:30 pm

Round 1: Obi wan since he defeated tier 9 anakin

Round 2: Mace

Round 3: either way tbh

October 14th 2019, 4:32 pm

Seturna wrote:Round 1: Obi wan since he defeated tier 9 anakin

Round 2: Mace

Round 3: either way tbh

Yeah, under heavy context. Mace also beat a bloodlusted Sidious, so this isn't really proof of Obi-Wan being superior.

October 14th 2019, 4:33 pm

@Seturna
You do realize that Kenobi's win wasn't a legitimate victory against a tier 9. Otherwise he'd be listed as a tier 9 himself, instead of a tier 8

October 14th 2019, 4:35 pm

KingofBlades wrote:Yet you yourself used the tier system in your reasoning as to why Kenobi would win.

There is a difference though. I am using specific parts of it which have been referenced in the sources. Anakin being a 9 is actually stated in a few sources, including the making of revenge of the sith. I don’t recall the “Mace is an 8 bordering on 9” thing being stated anywhere except in the 2016 interview.

October 14th 2019, 4:37 pm

MasterCilghal wrote:

KingofBlades wrote:Yet you yourself used the tier system in your reasoning as to why Kenobi would win.

There is a difference though. I am using specific parts of it which have been referenced in the sources. Anakin being a 9 is actually stated in a few sources, including the making of revenge of the sith. I don’t recall the “Mace is an 8 bordering on 9” thing being stated anywhere except in the 2016 interview.

Yeah he's mentioned as an 8 and a 8 bordering on nine in two separate interviews but the actual Making of has him pegged as a solid 9.

October 14th 2019, 4:48 pm

I mean, Kenobi “letting go” of his attachments is noted as a key factor for his victory several times in the sources, including the novel itself. I don’t think it was just an emotional growth, as that would make little sense in regards to a fight. The idea of a power growth seems more reasonable to me, and would make perfect sense in the lore.

October 14th 2019, 4:58 pm

Emotional growth can lead to power growth, particularly in a scenario in which you’re completely abandoning all of your past feeling and reservations.

October 15th 2019, 10:28 am

Hard fought but it's Mace's fight to win. Mace is less powerful than the Anakin Kenobi beat but he's closer to the mentality of tier nine than Anakin was. Kenobi can hold on defensively for a long time, but Mace should eventually corner him. Kenobi obviously won't be able to sucker Mace into attacking him from a bad position, the key reason he beat Anakin, going back to the Anakin's combative mental shortcoming.

October 15th 2019, 11:20 am

Windu and it isn't that close

Mustafar!Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Mace Windu

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