SS - Exar Kun (IdrisianGraecus) vs. the Outlander (Praxis)

The combatants will be the Outlander (Jedi Under Siege) vs. Exar Kun (TOTJ). The Outlander will be the Hero of Tython version.

IdrisianGraecus will be making the opener. There will be a total of three posts from each participant which will then be followed by a concluding post. There will be no character or time limits for posts.

This thread follows all default stipulations listed in the "Guidelines" thread. Additional rules are as follows:

• Feats take precedent over directly and indisputably contradicted statements.
  
• Quotes are binding and have no expiration date unless directly or subtextually contradicted. For the latter, such a case must be made within the debate itself.
  
• All letter or number statistics ascribed to characters from C-Canon sources, including role-playing games and trading cards, are banned.
  

Edit: After a brief discussion with Idrisian, we have decided to remove character limits on posts in order to create a more productive debate.

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Let me just say that I am very proud of my Kun art.

Looking forward to this.

This should be, um, interesting?

TAEP

Very good, looking forward to the debate

I'm gonna go Exar Kun here.

TAEP

I’m loving the Kun Art.

I’ll have my opener up, at latest Sunday. Hopefully.

Praxis gonnaa win 

TAEP.

TAEP.

TAEP

Also, this should be interesting. I can think of a few ways this argument will go.

@Hurricane_of_Dorian

Yeah, I realize. I’m just doing this for experience.

Doesn't mean you can't make a decent argument. However there is certain unfortunate pitfalls many Kun debaters fall into....like certain Ancient Powers that occasionally stir

Given that this is my first SS, my formatting, etc might be a little weird, so sorry in advance for that.
1. Physical Traits
Being physically strong is an extremely underrated trait in the Star Wars universe; after all, if you can telekinetically dominate somebody, telepathically dominate them, or fry them with lightning, where’s the need for lifting weights?
But there’s a precedent for opponents with more physical strength being able to defeat opponents that are likely more skilled:
Skywalker was all over him. The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker—Skywalker was getting stronger.
Source: Revenge of the Sith novelization
And Kun is certainly not lacking in feats of strength, his ability to break through thick walls of beskar is impressive, given that beskar is one of the few materials in the galaxy that is lightsaber-proof.
 



 
And Exar's speed is nothing to laugh at either, as he's able to ragdoll a bloodlusted Sylvar:

 
Which is especially impressive because Sylvar is able to move so fast that Nomi Sunrider, who's superior to a meditation sphere amped Aleema Keto, can't even react her.
 
Kun also has amazing durability, while not at the level of some of the giants in this category, he's able to survive his bones being broken in hundreds of locations.
 

 
2. Force Powers & Fighting Skill
 
Exar Kun's command of the force in second to none in his era, and he is one of the most powerful force wielders to ever have lived. 


After turning to the dark side, Kun betrays his master, Freedon Nadd & destroys him with a full powered Force Blast.



And this is impressive because at this point, Kun is worthy of the "legacy of the Sith", whereas Nadd was not. Nadd's own powers were also extraordinary, given that he had grown far more powerful than his master, Naga Sadow, before killing him, and then proceeded to grow for another 100 years. 

Freedon Nadd had been a Jedi who turned to the dark side as the apprentice of Naga Sadow, the former ruler of the ancient Sith Empire. Sadow's power had been so great, it had allowed him to survive for six centuries, fueled by the energies of the dark side.
Source: Rule Of Two

Eventually, the apprentice became far more powerful than the teacher...
Source: Official Fact File 90

And Sadow was no slouch either, as when he was just a spirit, he was capable of telekinetically ragdolling the likes of a post SoR Darth Nox, one of the few characters that may have been the Outlander. 



And Kun's TK is also great, given that he was able to lift Derriphan-class Battleships out of the depths of a massive temple, and deems it an unworthy display of his new powers. 

Though all of the Derriphan-class battleships were thought to be destroyed in the Great Hyperspace War, at least one survived. The ship, belonging to Naga Sadow, was buried on Yavin 4. During the Great Sith War, Exar Kun would raise the ship from the planet and put it back to service, similar to the way Darth Nihilus would raise the Ravager from the ruined surface of Malachor V.
Source: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

As the guide says, this feat is rather similar to Nihilus raising the Ravager, which is also one of the more impressive TK feats in the mythos, given Nihilus ripped the Ravager from miles beneath Malachor.

Also, Dooku had thrown this class of ship when fighting Kenobi and Skywalker upon Korriban

They were nearing the end of the hangar. He sensed it rather than saw it. The corroded vehicles were more numerous now, lined up like dark, giant phantoms.

Like phantoms..

Phantoms that move…

Obi-Wan wrenched his gaze away. He could have sworn the ancient ships were moving.

Then he knew.

"This way!" he yelled, as the first vehicle suddenly flipped over. It would have crushed them if Obi-Wan hadn't dashed to the side with Anakin on his heels. He flattened himself against the wall as another vehicle moved, its jagged wing a lethal weapon, capable of slicing them to ribbons. A cruiser suddenly zoomed toward the wall, straight at them.

"Drop!" Anakin and Obi-Wan hit the floor, hugging the stones as the cruiser passed over them and smashed into the wall.

Vehicle parts began to fall like rain. The crashes were deafening.

They leaped, twisted, and dived to avoid them, using the Force to deflect them when they could. Finally they came to rest in the shadow of one of the giant statues. Obi-Wan leaned against a clawed foot and squinted into the darkness.

He could not see the Sith, but he felt the Sith's amusement, his triumph.

The vehicles now smashed into one another, creating a solid mass of screaming metal, effectively blocking them from the front of the hangar.
Source: Jedi Quest: The Final Showdown

When going to confront Ulic Qel Droma, Exar shrugs off Aleema Keto's attacks, blasts her unconscious, and proceeds to engage in a duel with an enraged Ulic, a duel that would go on for hours. 




Exar Kun and Ulic fought, but they were too evenly matched for either to gain the upper hand. Their battle might have gone on for hours but for the macabre manifestation of a host of Sith spirits, led by the shade of Marka Ragnos.
Source: Dark Side Sourcebook

Exar and Ulic proceeded to vanish for years, gaining vast power. 



Exar Kun successfully shrouds his Force presence from all the Jedi in the Great Library of Ossus; including Odan-Urr and Nomi Sunrider. Before telekinetically tearing a Sith holocron from Urr's telekinetic grasp, then attacking Odan-Urr; resisting his Sever Force attack, before killing him in turn. All on an incredibly strong light side nexus:








Odan Urr is one of the most powerful Jedi alive at this point, compared to being the "Mace Windu and Yoda" of his time, along with Vodo Siosk-Baas.



And many of the other masters were incredibly powerful, like Thon, a master that managed to contain the Sith spirits of Ambria, who were so powerful that they might have consumed the whole sector. 


At Ossus, Kun gains what was likely the most powerful Sith Holocron ever made, the Dark Holocron. 

The most powerful Sith Holocron contained Sith teachings and histories that covered some hundred thousand years.
Source: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

And Kun is now described as "unstoppable in lightsaber combat" 

Some unique objects are invariably associated with their remarkable owners. The unusual double-bladed lightsaber of the fallen Jedi Exar Kun is one such artifact. This weapon as distinctive and dangerous as its builder, the Dark Lord of the Sith, who initiated the great Sith War and nearly toppled the Old Republic.

[...]

As the battle against the Jedi escalated, Kun altered his normal lightsaber into a more deadly and dangerous weapon. Kun added a second emitter matrix on the opposite end of the handgrip, allowing him to release two blue-white blades simultaneously. The dark Jedi wielded the saber much as he would a quarterstaff, using one blade to block incoming attacks, then quickly spinning the handgrip to use the second blade to strike a killing blow against his opponent.

Customized controls allowed him to adjust each blade's length from half a meter to one and a half meters. Panels controlled each blade's intensity: at its highest setting, a blade was like any other lightsaber, with the ability to cut through dense materials such as armor plating and durasteel with virtually no resistance. At the lowest power setting, a blade became a simple shaft of light, delivering no damage and providing no resistance against incoming lightsaber attacks. By abruptly shortening a blade or dropping it to the lowest power setting, Kun tricked his opponents into overextending themselves during attacks, giving him an opportunity for a dealy counterstrike. By coupling these tactics with his Force abilities to predict the actions of his opponents, Kun became virtually unstoppable in combat.
Source: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

And Exar manages to walk into the Senate, and freeze every single person in the room



And then he ragdolls Sylvar, who I've already covered, and proceeds to kill his former master, Vodo Siosk-Baas







Exar Kun's power dwarfed Vodo's despite maintaining the spell on thousands, if not tens of thousands of Senators:

Power of the Jedi Sourcebook wrote:Ulic’s trial was interrupted by Exar Kun, who met his former Master face to face for the first time since his long descent into darkness. The two fought, and Vodo-Siosk Baas was no match for Exar Kun’s double-bladed lightsaber and deep reserve of dark side power. Vodo-Siosk perished, slain by his former apprentice.

This is incredible, given that Vodo had telekinetically disarmed a prepared Ulic and placed a block on Ulic's immense power, which dwarfed the combined strength of Nomi Sunrider, Tott Doneeta, Cay Qel-Droma and others prior to several years of Ulic gaining tremendous powers:







At one point, Kun causes vast quantities of dark side corruption on Thule, a giant planet, rivalling Vitiate's effect on Dromund Kaas.

During the height of the Great Sith War, Thule served as a base of operations for the Sith Warriors, and much of the planet's crust became imbued with the residue of the dark side of the Force.
Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Exar attacks Ossus, finally meeting his match in the form of the Jedi Ood Bnar, drawing upon the complete power of the planet Ossus

Ood resists Kun's attempts to steal the lightsabers by undergoing a final metamorphosis, plunging roots into the ground and driving Kun back with a blast of power drawn from the depths of Ossus.
Source: Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith #6

Ossus itself was so powerful that it had literally stopped the planet from being destroyed by 10 supernovas. 

Ossus still bears the scars of the Cron Supernova: its surface is a seared wasteland of rock and sand. But even this degree of desolation is shockingly mild; that the planet was not rendered into a charred ball of molten rock, or even obliterated completely, is nothing short of miraculous.

Little academic work has been put forward to explain this unlikely survival; only conjecture. The initial cause of the supernova was unnatural; perhaps this explains the unnatural results? Ossus was a stronghold of the Jedi; does the inherent life force of such a place make it more resistant to destruction? Could the unique astrophysical structure of the Adega system where Ossus is found have played a role?

Regardless of the reasons, the continued survival of Ossus offers the promise that its ancient mysteries may one day be unlocked.
Source: The Unlikely Survival of Ossus Codex Entry

Ood Bnar survived until the New Republic Era, where he obliterates Executor Sedriss

Several thousand years later on the planet Ossus, Bnar reawakened to help save Jem Ysanna, a young woman with powers in the Force. He ultimately sacrificed himself to destroy the evil Imperial Military Executor Sedriss.

****

The Executor was destroyed by the power of an ancient Jedi, Ood Bnar
Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

And Sedriss might have been able to beat Luke Skywalker, had it been a battle between the two. 

Sedriss and Vill Goir met Luke Skywalker and recent Jedi recruit kam Solusar on the plains of Ossus. Had it been merely a contest between dark side adepts and Jedi, Sedriss might have been victorious.
Source: Handbook 3: Dark Empire

He's also canonically more powerful than the likes of Jerec

Perhaps the strongest disciple of Palpatine after Darth Vader, Executor Sedriss remained loyal to the Emperor after the death of his clone over the Rebel's Pinnacle Base
Source: Handbook 3: Dark Empire

By his prime, Kun is more powerful than any Jedi, including Ood Bnar, and he's canonically the most powerful Sith up until this point.  

Shortly after A New Hope, Sidious travels to Korriban, and is nearly killed by the combined might of all of the Sith Spirits there, all of whom are most likely in ragdoll territory for Kun, establishing him as, at the very least, near Palpatine's tier, if not in it.





Kun's powers are lost by the time of Jedi Academy, but he still manages to use his negative emotions, etc to make up for his lost energy reserves

Exar Kun passed the millennia in uneasy slumber.
A few scant years later, Kun is brought sharply awake by the arrival of not one or two, but a dozen humans blazing with the power he needed to live again. Eagerly but cautiously, Kun observes each arrival, probing for weaknesses and the power he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy. For a time, he is able to subside by feeding on their residual energy, but soon he will need worshippers if he is to grow more active. With a nucleus of followers to provide him energy-providing anger and fear, Kun will have enough power to escape his exile and take on human form. To his surprise, Kun recognizes the leader to be the same man who had visited Yavin Four years earlier, now much more powerful in the Force. Too powerful, for the moment, for Kun to tackle.
Kun finds Gantoris, strong-willed and impatient to learn, to be a more promising first candidate. He easily seduces Gantoris in the same manner that Nadd had seduced him—by promising forbidden knowledge and the truly powerful Jedi secrets Gantoris cannot wait to learn. Carefully building up and feeding on the anger of his first apprentice, Kun grows in power. Soon he feels confident to make an attempt to subvert Luke, knowing that if he can sway the teacher, the students will all follow. Kun, posing as Anakin Skywalker, appears to Luke and attempts to pull him toward the forbidden Sith teachings by tempting him to use Sith power to seize control of the New Republic and destroy the Empire. Realizing that this shade is not that of his father, Luke rejects the offer.
Enraged and drained, Kun returns to Gantoris. Desperate for more energy, he goads Gantoris to new heights of anger by showing him the Eol Sha colonists dying on Dantooine. Gantoris is pushed too far, however, and turns on his Sith master. Realizing that Gantoris is no longer his, Kun utterly drains him to provide himself a reserve of energy to last until he can subvert more students.
Kun has just begun edging in on Streen when Kyp Durron arrives at the Jedi Academy. Kun immediately senses in the young man his ideal subject. Like Gantoris, Kyp is strong-willed and impatient to learn. Moreover, he is far more powerful than the Eol Sha leader, and young enough to be overconfident and naive.
Over a number of weeks, Kun slowly bends Kyp to his will, and begins to augment his power. He grows very powerful on Kyp's hate, and soon his hold on Kyp is so complete that he can send Kyp beyond the planet to do his will and still retain control over his subject. Ultimately, he has Kyp return to Yavin Four and helps him reclaim the Sun Crusher. He also bolsters Kyp's talents to allow him to defeat Luke and place him in a coma.
Source: Jedi Academy Sourcebook

When Kun and Kyp attack him together, Luke is powerless to resist, and all of his Jedi techniques and training fail him.

Kyp made a dismissive gesture with one hand, and a sudden wave of dark ripples splashed across the air like the shock front of a concussion grenade. Luke stumbled backward. The lightsaber turned cold in his hand. Frost crystals grew in feathery patterns around the handle. At the core of the brilliant green blade a shadow appeared, a black disease rotting away the purity of the beam. The humming blade sputtered, sounding like a sickly cough. The black taint rapidly grew stronger, swallowing up the green beam. With a frizzle of sparks Luke’s lightsaber died.
Trying to control his growing fear, Luke felt a sudden brush of cold behind him. He turned to see a black, hooded silhouette—the image that had impersonated Anakin Skywalker in Luke’s nightmare…the dark man who had lured Gantoris into a devastating loss of control.
Kyp’s voice came as if from a great distance. “At last, Master Skywalker, you can meet my mentor—Exar Kun.”
Luke dropped his useless lightsaber and crouched. His every muscle suddenly coiled and tensed. He rallied all the powers of the Force around him, seeking any defensive tactic. With the Sun Crusher looming behind him, Kyp stretched out both hands and blasted Luke with lightning bolts like black cracks in the Force. Dark tendrils rose up from the gaps in the temple flagstones, fanged, illusionary vipers that struck at him from all sides. Luke cried out and tried to strike back, but the shadows of Exar Kun joined the attack, adding more deadly force. The ancient Dark Lord of the Sith lashed out with waves of blackness, driving long icicles of frozen poison into Luke’s body.
He thrashed, but felt helpless. To lose control to anger and desperation would be as great a failure as if he did nothing at all. Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him—but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly.
Source: Jedi Academy Vol.2 Dark Apprentice

And Kun binds Luke's spirit outside of his body, which only ceases once Kun's spirit is defeated

Later, Jacen joined forces with the other Jedi students in destroying Exar Kun's spirit forever and freeing Luke's spirit.

****

Later she became one of Skywalker's Jedi candidates and joined his other Jedi students on Yavin IV in defeating the spirit of Dark Lord Exar Kun, protecting Luke's body and freeing his spirit.
Source: Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Many dismiss Kun's utter annihilation of Luke given that it was technically a 'shared feat' between him and Kyp, but Kun's mere aid to Kyp makes Kyp amped by a focal point's powers seem 'feeble' in comparison

“Exar Kun, help me,” Kyp said, closing his eyes.
He reached out with his mind, following the paths of the Force that led to every object in the universe, drawing power from the cosmic focal point of the Massassi temple. He searched, sending his thoughts like a probe deep into the storm systems of the gas giant. Behind him, Kyp felt the black-ice power of Exar Kun arise, tapping into him and reinforcing his abilities. His own feeble exploratory touch suddenly plunged forward like a blaster bolt. Kyp felt larger, a part of the jungle moon, then a part of the entire planetary system, until he burrowed into the heart of the gas giant itself.The Sun Crusher approached like a long, sharp thorn of crystalline alloy, cruising upright on its long axis. The toroidal resonance-torpedo launcher hung at the bottom of the long hook. It looked beautiful. The Sun Crusher descended through the jungle moon’s atmosphere, straight down—like a spike to impale the Great Temple. Kyp controlled it, slowed its descent, until the superweapon hovered to a stop, suspended in front of him.
As the sky brightened with planetrise, the alloy hull of the Sun Crusher seemed as pristine as a firefacet gem, scoured of all oxidation and debris by the intense temperatures and pressures at the core of Yavin. The Sun Crusher looked clean, and deadly, and ready for him.
“Thank you, Exar Kun,” Kyp whispered.
Source: Jedi Academy Vol.2 Dark Apprentice

3.  Scalings

This is probably going to be my shortest section 

So:

Kun >>>>> Nadd >>>>> Sadow >>> SoR Nox

What makes this rather impressive is the fact that Nox by SoR doesn't really show much improvement between the expansion and KOTFE, and during KOTFE Chapter 6, when the Outlander is ragdolled by Arcann, they are still likely suffering the effects of carbonite poisoning, meaning that they are still hindered. So if Nox > KOTFE Chapter 6 Outlander, then Kun is a few ragdoll tiers above them. 

Kun >>>>> Ood >>>>>>>> Sedriss > Jerec, and Sedriss = DE Luke. 

What's so important about this is that it cements Kun is being far above Luke even if one discounts his JA and BFC feats and accolades.

Kun >>>>> Kun's Spirit >>>> Kun's aid >>>>>>>> Kyp. Kun's Spirit + Kyp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Luke

Frankly, Kyp's contributions are nearly negligible in the fight, given that Kun's "aid" is far, far more powerful than him at this stage.

Kun's TK is also comparable to that of Dooku on Korriban and Nihilus lifting the Ravager, both extremely impressive TK feats.


@Praxis: Your Turn, sorry for the rushed post.

Good post overall, especially considering it’s your first.  Having said that, I disagree with some parts and I think you should make some adjustments to the formatting (the quotes in particular).

This is better than my early posts by a wide margin, good job given this is your first. Definitely could do with a few formatting changes though.

Thanks, yeah, the formatting of the quotes was bad, I wrote it on word, and copy pasted it, so maybe that’s why?

My response will take some time.

Cool, no problem with that.

@IdrisianGraecus Nice powt even though the formatting is just awfull.

It sucks, that’s what I get for copy pasted from word.