Ahsoka Tano vs Darth Maul & Savage Opress

BoD wrote:Not at all. The Inquisitors' most dangerous quality is their ability to adapt. Against new opponents, they're utterly outmatched, such as with Ahsoka. However, given time they learn to adapt and counter that opponent, as they did against Kanan and Ahsoka. They're still clearly outmatched, but they can't be stomped like they were before. Not to mention the Fifth was bullrushing her in their first fight rather than relying on technique.

This is total conjecture. They didn't learn to counter Kanan Jarrus any better than in their first duel with him in "The Future of the Force," and likewise the Fifth Brother was retreating throughout his duel with Ahsoka, with the camera showing him stumbling back like a fat man with gout whenever it cut back to the duel. Then we have the dark side nexus to account for, which further raises questions about the Inquisitors' performances in "Twilight of the Apprentice."

Malachor is a Dark Side nexus, or at least has a Dark Side nexus somewhere within it, but there are two sources for it being a nexus, the first source being Henry Gilroy, who said that the planet's history of being home with the Sith was what enabled the inquisitors to achieve flight whilst using their lightsabers, but that's not synonymous with it like the generic Dark Side nexuses that gives a boost in the Legends continuity, even in Legends continuity nexuses varied in personality IIRC (e.g. Vjun). The second is Pablo Hidalgo, who got asked about it it's a nexus because Henry Gilroy's remarks gave such a suggestion, he said yes, but then said he was hesitant to say that Malachor gave a "simple game-type buff" to Vader, Maul and the Inquisitors.

Bro who looks at their newborn baby and decides to name him Pablo Hidalgo?

Leland Chee

@Latham2000: There's also a third:



Seems like it has the basic properties of a dark side nexus.

@King Joker That quote suggests that the temple is a nexus, but not the entire planet, because Malachor isn't planet sized temple. That being said, the second half of Ahsoka's fight with Vader did take place inside the temple, where Vader would've been empowered by the temple's Dark Side energies, whereas Ahsoka would have also been weakened, so that's neat. The first half of their fight, which stopped when Vader BFR'd Ahsoka, took place around the temple's exterior, though not inside the temple itself, but they were pretty close to it. Either way, parts of their fight still took place inside the temple.

The "petrified remains" which layered the area with dark side energy were scattered in and around the temple, though. The corpses are in the immediate vicinity of Ahsoka and co. when they fall through the surface, so the dark side nexus should permeate throughout the route the protags follow in the episode.

I'm still not convinced that a darksider would be combatively amped within the temple. The quote @King Joker presented could easily be referring to the kind of visions Maul experienced after inhaling a heap of ashes. Similarly, the Cave of Evil on Dagobah was a dark side nexus that also materialized illusions, yet there is no indication that it amped darksiders. 

I'm inclined to believe that canon nexuses have esoteric, not necessarily combat-applicable properties. I mean, it didn't look like Kanan defeated an amped Maul. As for Vader, he couldn't have possibly inhaled any ashes at all.

King Joker wrote:The "petrified remains" which layered the area with dark side energy were scattered in and around the temple, though. The corpses are in the immediate vicinity of Ahsoka and co. when they fall through the surface, so the dark side nexus should permeate throughout the route the protags follow in the episode.

Fairs 

Latham2000 wrote:@King Joker That quote suggests that the temple is a nexus, but not the entire planet, because Malachor isn't planet sized temple. That being said, the second half of Ahsoka's fight with Vader did take place inside the temple, where Vader would've been empowered by the temple's Dark Side energies, whereas Ahsoka would have also been weakened, so that's neat. The first half of their fight, which stopped when Vader BFR'd Ahsoka, took place around the temple's exterior, though not inside the temple itself, but they were pretty close to it. Either way, parts of their fight still took place inside the temple.

How would Ahsoka have been weakened? Was that even showcased or implied in the episode itself?

Because she is a Light Sider, being surrounded by an atmosphere of the opposite side of the Force....

Latham2000 wrote:Because she is a Light Sider, being surrounded by an atmosphere of the opposite side of the Force....

But is the idea that lightsiders get hindered by darkside atmospheres even canon? Then also add that Ahsoka is giving it her all to avenge her "masters death". So could you just as well say she was amped too?

King Joker wrote:@Latham2000: There's also a third:



Seems like it has the basic properties of a dark side nexus.

@King Joker 
"It is said that those who visit Malachor's hidden temple can be overwhelmed by the rage and hate that still infuses the Sith ashes covering the site." The use of "those" implies that the text isn't just refering to the Sith but anyone who visits Malachor. So going by this, could Ahsoka have been amped too? And given that she is intent on avenging "her master's death", it is certainly a possibility in this scenario.

But my main point is that there is nothing in the episode that highlights Ahsoka was weakened or Vader was amped at all. To me it's just grasping at straws in favour of an argument for Ahsoka.

SithSauce wrote:

Latham2000 wrote:Because she is a Light Sider, being surrounded by an atmosphere of the opposite side of the Force....

But is the idea that lightsiders get hindered by darkside atmospheres even canon? Then also add that Ahsoka is giving it her all to avenge her "masters death". So could you just as well say she was amped too?

We have multiple instances of nexuses empowering force users in canon
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/do-nexuses-exist-in-canon-1908650/

What I find really dubious is you made a positive claim about the lack of nexuses in canon without a shred of evidence. Then you called citing the nexus "baseless highballing". Now that's just clownish.

Joker's quote is just icing on the cake. Nexuses are a thing, acting like they aren't is lowballing.

SithSauce wrote:

King Joker wrote:@Latham2000: There's also a third:



Seems like it has the basic properties of a dark side nexus.

@King Joker 
"It is said that those who visit Malachor's hidden temple can be overwhelmed by the rage and hate that still infuses the Sith ashes covering the site." The use of "those" implies that the text isn't just refering to the Sith but anyone who visits Malachor. So going by this, could Ahsoka have been amped too? And given that she is intent on avenging "her master's death", it is certainly a possibility in this scenario.

But my main point is that there is nothing in the episode that highlights Ahsoka was weakened or Vader was amped at all. To me it's just grasping at straws in favour of an argument for Ahsoka.

Not unless you can prove Ahsoka was drawing on "rage and hate" or the dark side for her strength. Seeking vengeance for her master's death doesn't exactly meet those qualifications.

Why is using evidence from a sourcebook grasping at straws?

Both Savage and Maul can defeat Ahsoka in one-on-one fight. If they work together, they crush Ahsoka in seconds.

The God Emperor wrote:Both Savage and Maul can defeat Ahsoka in one-on-one fight. If they work together, they crush Ahsoka in seconds.

You mean like they crushed Kenobi?