Galen Marek vs ROTJ Luke Skywalker

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depends on what u think is more impressive- being nigh equals with vader 1 year away from ANH, or beating semi light sider vader, while having speed and style advantage advantage.

Luke wins.

Luke in a great fight,

Galen. Luke has never faced lightning before. If Luke overcomes this then he wins

cough sheev cough

Galen isn’t Wankatine

CuckedCurry wrote:Galen. Luke has never faced lightning before. If Luke overcomes this then he wins

He did hold off Sheev's lightning for a second. Then again, he won't be a complete twit and throw away his lightsaber this time and Galen's not nearly as powerful as Sidious, so he'll probably be fine.

They're both "not that strong of a Jedi." I'd side Luke honestly.

Luke in a great fight

Probably Luke.

Marek.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Marek.

Looks like you're in the minority here. Mind sharing what brought you to that conclusion? I'm pretty curious to see an argument for Galen

I find Galen stomping TFU Vader, and beating TFU 2 Vader after fighting through a force that could have "easily" overwhelmed his former master and blowing up the Salvation, both of which exhausted him, to be more impressive than ROTJ Luke fighting on even ground with ROTJ Vader.

i mean, ROTJ vader is a good deal stronger than TFU2 vader, so there's that. but i can kinda see ur point? the vader luke beat had a ton of disadvantages to him, while TFU 1 and 2 vader was pretty much in pristine condition

Leaning Skywalker unless Galen somehow abuses TK - he can’t contend against Luke in sabers.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:I find Galen stomping TFU Vader, and beating TFU 2 Vader after fighting through a force that could have "easily" overwhelmed his former master and blowing up the Salvation, both of which exhausted him, to be more impressive than ROTJ Luke fighting on even ground with ROTJ Vader.

Personally, I wouldn't call Galen's victory over TFU I Vader a stomp. From what I recall, the duel was pretty close until Galen started playing mind games and overcame his own personal baggage at the same time. Likewise, I'm hesitant to give him the win based on his clone's performance in TFU II, as the clone is technically a separate character, and there was a toooooon of circumstance around his feats.

That said, I get where you're coming from. I'm still leaning Luke, but it's a good fight either way

@Underachiever599:

Personally, I wouldn't call Galen's victory over TFU I Vader a stomp. From what I recall, the duel was pretty close until Galen started playing mind games and overcame his own personal baggage at the same time.

Let's take stock shall we:

The Force Unleashed wrote:"I understand you now," he said, still trying to goad his former Master into breaking his concentration. "You killed my father and kidnapped me from Kashyyyk, not just to be your apprentice, but to be a son to you. Was that how your father treated you?"
The intensity of Darth Vader's attack redoubled. "I have no father."

The "mind games" only served to increase the intensity of his former master's assault. More to the point however, the mental clarity Galen acquired at the end of the duel was a permanent realisation, it didn't magically disappear:

The Force Unleashed wrote:"I don't hate you," the apprentice went on, blocking him blow for blow. "I pity you." With a new strength of his own, he forced Darth Vader onto his back foot. "You destroyed who I was and made me as I am now, but this wasn't your idea. It was the Emperor's, and it's what he's already done to you." A strip of Darth Vader's cape fluttered away, smoking. The two came closer together until they were face-to-mask. The apprentice stared directly into the black eye guards of his former Master. "You are his creature just as I was yours-but you've never had the strength to rebel. That's why I pity you. I will no longer serve a monster, and if I have my way I'll make sure you don't, either."
Vader tried to pull away, but the apprentice followed him, keeping him on the back foot.
"I will kill you," he said, "to set you free."
The lightsabers flashed again-and it was the apprentice who found the chink in the armor that both of them had been waiting for. Vader's lightsaber moved too slowly to block a blow to his chest, allowing the apprentice's blade to slash deeply across his armored throat. Vader staggered backward, gloved hand upraised to the smoking wound.

Thereby rendering the fight up to this point irrelevant, and it's at this moment SK takes a decisive edge.

To prevent any attempt at worming out it and to be crystal clear, this mentality is something SK holds to in TFU 2:

The Force Unleashed 2 wrote:Starkiller swore that he would not give in to anger or frustration. If that was what Darth Vader wanted, he wasn't going to get it. The only emotion he would give in to was love.

But you know what, let's move on, since you seem equally quick to throw out the TFU 2 fight.

Likewise, I'm hesitant to give him the win based on his clone's performance in TFU II, as the clone is technically a separate character,

Nevertheless his power remains the same.

and there was a toooooon of circumstance around his feats.

There certainly was. Why don't we take a peak:

The Force Unleashed 2 wrote:The tips of his lightsabers shook. He had never felt so exhausted, at every level of his being.

Right from the start SK is exhausted due to his fight against the Galen clones, who are collectively far above Vader.

But that's not all:

The Force Unleashed 2 wrote:Vader himself fought more cautiously than he had on the Death Star, the last time they had dueled in earnest. His armor seemed to have improved, too; it was less vulnerable to lightning than it had been just days before.
…

Vader's defenses were impenetrable; his lightsaber seemed to arrive a split second before Starkiller's, every time. He may have defeated Vader before, but Vader had learned from that mistake. He knew the measure of his former apprentice now.

Vader has specifically trained himself to deal with his former apprentice after failing to defeat him on the Death Star, and has received upgraded cybernetics on top of that. Despite this:

The Force Unleashed 2 wrote:Vader threw wrecked platforms and cloning rubes at him, while he scored three slashes to the Dark Lord's cape in return. They circled the top of the cloning tower, striking and assessing, then striking again.

…

They were exchanging rapid blows along the edge of the buckled platform, blades swinging so fast they were visible only as blurs. Vader's defenses were impenetrable; his lightsaber seemed to arrive a split second before Starkiller's, every time. He may have defeated Vader before, but Vader had learned from that mistake. He knew the measure of his former apprentice now.

...

Starkiller attacked the Dark Lord again, but this time he was the one driven back.
With a sense of piercing despair, he saw exactly how the fight would go. He and his former Master would dance like marionettes while Juno lay dying-if she wasn't already dead-and the war raged around them, unchecked by this minor tragedy.

...

They fought like the Sith Lords of old, raging back and forth across the roof of the spire, uncaring what happened around them. Starkiller maintained his efforts to get to Juno, and Darth Vader did everything in his power to stop him. Neither would capitulate. Neither would be the first to break. Their wills were locked. They broke apart, lightsabers hissing in the ceaseless rain. Lightning split the sky into a thousand jagged shapes. Thunder rolled. Neither had noticed the battle fading around them.

The two combatants are more or less well matched in most exchanges of the fight (SK abuses lightning to win both and Vader gains an upper hand in pure sabers near the end of the second duel due to increased rage, but outside of that, it remains close).

So basically, TFU/TFU 2 Vader is in Galen's stomp range without heavy context in his favour, and even then the best he can do is a draw. I'm not convinced Vader grew enough to mitigate that edge, though I'm willing to hear a case for it.

@lorenzo.r.2nd:

the vader luke beat had a ton of disadvantages to him,

Irrelevant, quotes peg them as equals regardless.

Love how people act like enraged Vader makes him harder to beat when he consistently fucks up whenever he loses his temper. Also, IIRC most of the Luke = Vader quotes are blurbs.

And I suppose that Vader going from being matched to completely overwhelming SK in a way he'd proven repeatedly incapable of prior directly after becoming enraged is a coincidence?

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:depends on what u think is more impressive- being nigh equals with vader 1 year away from ANH, or beating semi light sider vader, while having speed and style advantage advantage.

Can you clarify why you hold Marek as a nigh equal to Vader as opposed to his superior, lorenzo? 

Underachiever599 wrote:

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:I find Galen stomping TFU Vader, and beating TFU 2 Vader after fighting through a force that could have "easily" overwhelmed his former master and blowing up the Salvation, both of which exhausted him, to be more impressive than ROTJ Luke fighting on even ground with ROTJ Vader.

Personally, I wouldn't call Galen's victory over TFU I Vader a stomp. From what I recall, the duel was pretty close until Galen started playing mind games and overcame his own personal baggage at the same time. Likewise, I'm hesitant to give him the win based on his clone's performance in TFU II, as the clone is technically a separate character, and there was a toooooon of circumstance around his feats.

That said, I get where you're coming from. I'm still leaning Luke, but it's a good fight either way

Galen's "mindgames" enraged Vader and caused the Dark Lord to perform better than he had at any in the fight than at any point prior. 

They fought back and forth across the observation dome.

"I understand you now," he said, still trying to goad his former Master into breaking his concentration. "You killed my father and kidnapped me from Kashyyyk, not just to be your apprentice, but to be a son to you. Was that how your father treated you?"

The intensity of Darth Vader's attack redoubled. "I have no father." The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near," - The Force Unleashed.

It's directly after this when Galen realizes that such attempts were unlikely to be successful and that a better way needed to be found. While you're correct in suggesting that Galen's domination of Vader came about as a result of "discarding his baggage" I don't see why that's relevant considering he would not possess that baggage against any foe outside of Vader. 

"Glancing over Darth Vader's shoulder, he saw the Emperor watching the duel, his face screwed up in malevolent delight. And the apprentice understood. A better way to kill...

Not out of hatred. Whatever lay beneath that black mask, it wasn't beauty or happiness. Only ugliness and pain would hide itself away for so long. Hatred would not be enough to turn the tables on Darth Vader." - The Force Unleashed.

BreakofDawn wrote:Love how people act like enraged Vader makes him harder to beat when he consistently fucks up whenever he loses his temper. Also, IIRC most of the Luke = Vader quotes are blurbs.

Not a single one is a blurb.

@Syndiciate:

I just said that...

Luke was an equal to a lightsider vader, while using the dark side. He also had the sheev Nexus amping him, which made Vader weaker. Not to mention Vader was mentally unstable, and that Luke only beat him after he tried to kill Vader.

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:Luke was an equal to a lightsider vader, while using the dark side. He also had the sheev Nexus amping him, which made Vader weaker. Not to mention Vader was mentally unstable, and that Luke only beat him after he tried to kill Vader.

Not trying to be a dick but every claim you made here is not just wrong but the direct opposite of reality.