Starkiller vs. Vaylin

Honestly, Galen literally just beats Vader, goes into oneness, and dies a minute later. The fight was so scattered it made no sense.

In the words of Vader:

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Honestly, Galen literally just beats Vader, goes into oneness, and dies a minute later. The fight was so scattered it made no sense.

I mean, it is a Sean Williams novel. 

TFU is too damn poorly written. Both game and the novel. Shaak Ti fight is another example.

^
The idea of Galen Marek was terrific, and the game was fun, but the plot was horrendous. Characters like Rahm Kota, Juno Eclipse, and PROXY were interesting too though.

Nah, the novel isn't badly written imo given what it had to work with.

The game’s plot. The novel was fine, just the final fight was a bit scattered & confusing.

Pretty much, though the final fights from both TFU 1 and 2 were about as consistent as a Scot on crack.

The Ellimist wrote:Who wins?

Probably Starkiller.

Novel is way better than the game that's for sure.

@BreakofDawn

One-shotting characters of Arcann's level,

Such as?

being a near-equal of the Outlander in his prime,

Which is relevant because?

being feared by Valkorion to one day be comparable to him in raw power,

Which isn't relevant unless you can quantify how much of that potential was actualised. Moreover, if you want to play the potential game SK was stated to be able to become the most powerful Force User ever and Sheev thought SK could one day be his equal.

her feats (e.g. ripping apart a building sized generator and using it as a projectile with little effort),

Impressive feat but not comparable to SK's best.

the Nathema orbit feat, and so on.

To which feat are you referring?

Anyway, how does any of this compare to SK's feats in the finale of TFU 2? Said feats include:

-Atomising half of a 300m Frigate.

-Defeating an army of his clones who could have easily overpowered Darth Vader while exhausted from the above feat.

-Possessing enough energy after both feats to defeat Darth Vader.

Between KOTFE chapter 8 and a few days or weeks before KOTET began, her skills as a duelist improved by a noticeable amount, enough for Senya to notice. She was also able to put Senya on the back foot multiple times during the fight before Senya began exploiting her anger and lack of emotional discipline. It's not really a stretch to say that between chapters 1 and 6 Vaylin's abilities with a saber continued to improve enough for her to go toe to toe with Arcann in actual saber combat if she grew from being bested by a massively holding back Senya to actually managing to put her on the back foot with pure skill and ferocity.

What I asked was:

As for her saber skills being comparable to The Outlander and Arcann I'm not convinced by that. How do we know she wasn't keeping up with Arcann through superior augmentation?

All this shows is that you believe it's not a stretch to believe Vaylin is ~ Arcann in technical skill due to her immense improvement. This doesn't actually answer my original question which is regarding whether we know Vaylin is ~ Arcann in skill not whether you think this is the case.

Plus, the gap between Arcann and chained Vaylin doesn't appear to be that high, so I wouldn't say her augmentions would give her enough of an edge to go toe to toe with Arcann if she didn't have the skill to back it up. She might not be his equal, true, but she's fairly close.

Why do you think the gap isn't that high?

There's evidence to the contrary.

Which has yet to be provided thus far.

Which is fair, but she's shown this ability on more than one occasion, from pressing Senya to holding off Arcann to holding off Senya, Arcann and the prime Outlander (though of course this was with the help of skytroopers and horizon guard forces who could challenge early KOTET Outlander so it's not an individual feat for her).

Most of those can be argued to have occurred due to Vaylin's augmentation rather than technical skill with the final one maybe being the exception but given that she has backup it's pretty much irrelevant regardless.

The majority of Starkiller's lightsaber victories are against Jedi or Sith who aren't exactly the most skilled or renowned duellists of their time.

On the contrary, Shaak Ti has been credited as one of the most skilled duellists in the order. Moreover, SK doesn't need to have major lightsaber victories for us to know he's skilled. He's been training against PROXY in lightsaber combat since he was a child and can perform Juyo which requires mastery of multiple forms in order to be able to do.

For example, he bested a TFU Vader (who even by ANH was described as moving clumsily and roughly),

Full quote?

stalemated a TFU II Vader,

Starkiller won that fight and it's honestly one of his most impressive feats (you jumping on the anti-Vader train to hype up Vaylin aside).

and beat Shaak Ti

Who is hardly unskilled as I mentioned earlier and this was accomplished while significantly pre-prime.

Rahm Kota and Kazdan Paratus, none of whom are exactly high tiers in sabers.

These two I can agree on.

By contrast, Arcann has stomped entire groups of Jedi and Sith with his skill and physicals alone, and has fought very evenly and even had a slight advantage over the Outlander, whose duelling feats don't really need to be detailed. Either of them are very likely to be more skilled than SK.

Which would be relevant if any of Arcann's skill feats could be scaled to Vaylin.

IdrisianGraecus wrote:^
The idea of Galen Marek was terrific, and the game was fun.

Glad you enjoyed the game. I own both of them, I can barely get past the first stage. It's the definition of boring repetitive hack and slash with a mediocre plot to boot.

OT: Galen should have this in the bag.

Deronn_Solo wrote:

IdrisianGraecus wrote:^
The idea of Galen Marek was terrific, and the game was fun.

Glad you enjoyed the game. I own both of them, I can barely get past the first stage. It's the definition of boring repetitive hack and slash with a mediocre plot to boot.

OT: Galen should have this in the bag.

game is quite old but enjoyable imo.