Starkiller vs. Vaylin

Force battle only

Who wins

SK

Starkiller. Vaylin's probably more powerful, but she doesn't have the control that Galen has.

I suppose that’s realistic?

Starkiller.

Vaylin handily

Vaylin's far more powerful and her control/skill is massively underrated on the board. She takes it.

If SK has any hope of winning this fight, it'll be via a skill advantage, not a power advantage. The question is whether SK is more skilled than Vailyn.

Doubt it. Vaylin was both powerful and precise enough to overload generators on Nathema from orbit for one, and learned enough discipline by KOTET to go toe to toe with both the Outlander and Arcann in saber and Force combat.

Vaylin, 10/10

BreakofDawn wrote:Vaylin's far more powerful

Based on what? Starkillers full power is ridiculously silly.

Deronn_Solo wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:Vaylin's far more powerful

Based on what? Starkillers full power is ridiculously silly.

Frightening Vitiate (who believed that she could become his equal), one-shotting Arcann, causing explosions from orbit, pulling down ships from orbit in cut dialogue, ripping apart multi-storey generators and throwing them as projectiles, breaking out of Valkorion's Force grip, etc.

BreakofDawn wrote:

Deronn_Solo wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:Vaylin's far more powerful

Based on what? Starkillers full power is ridiculously silly.

pulling down ships from orbit in cut dialogue,

Say again?

He’s referencing Unchained on Nathema I think.

LadyKulvax wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

Deronn_Solo wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:Vaylin's far more powerful

Based on what? Starkillers full power is ridiculously silly.

pulling down ships from orbit in cut dialogue,

Say again?

Yep, in the cut dialogue she was pulling all of the Alliance ships down to the surface. Can find the dialogue if you'd like.

Yes-fuckin-please

LadyKulvax wrote:Yes-fuckin-please

https://youtu.be/KMz47pqyn4U?t=493

Not sure it's canon since the dialogue was cut and the Outlander by Onslaught is most likely stronger than her, but it's a pretty neat indication of the power level she's operating at.

Cut scenes are canon, just like with TCW, etc.

Vaylin pulls apart a base and is pulling a fleet down. Yep, that just about destroys every argument.

LadyKulvax wrote:Cut scenes are canon, just like with TCW, etc.

Vaylin pulls apart a base and is pulling a fleet down. Yep, that just about destroys every argument.

Pretty sure the Maul pinning Sidious one was definitely not canon so I doubt it. 

As for Vaylin, I'd still peg the Outlander as being stronger than her by chapter 9 or Onslaught at the very least, but she's just gone up quite a lot in my rankings.

No, there's a ton of deleted TCW content that is canon as long as it doesn't contradict anything in the final cut. This doesn't either.

Cut content aside (which seems like a weird thing to include as canon if it was cut), none of Vaylin's environmental Force feats can outmatch ragdolling Tantive IV's, blowing up the Salvation, powering up the ISD-killing cannon, etc, etc. but I don't find that feats war very informative anyway.

Force feats can outmatch ragdolling Tantive IV's,

Wasn't that a gameplay feat? And he didn't ragdoll them, he shifted a destroyed ship in a virtually zero gravity environment with difficulty.

blowing up the Salvation,

Part of the Salvation, not all of it. The ship was also heavily weakened. 

powering up the ISD-killing cannon

Vaylin's tanked the combined energy of beams capable of disintegrating Nathema zealot with only one touch, have the potential to blow up the Asylum, and atomise an admittedly weakened Outlander and Lana as well as scare spirit Valkorion. Not to mention she's nearly ripped apart the Alliance base (which is immense - picture below) despite focusing most of her energy on the Outlander.



Plus, her overloading generators from Nathema's orbit (AKA still affected by Nathema's void) in a place where the Force was almost impossible to use is still more impressive than Galen's environmental feats.

BreakofDawn wrote:

Deronn_Solo wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:Vaylin's far more powerful

Based on what? Starkillers full power is ridiculously silly.

Frightening Vitiate (who believed that she could become his equal), one-shotting Arcann, causing explosions from orbit, pulling down ships from orbit in cut dialogue, ripping apart multi-storey generators and throwing them as projectiles, breaking out of Valkorion's Force grip, etc.

I mean, Galen has better versions of all of those feats. 

[[Frightening Vitiate (who believed that she could become his equal)]]

Sidious stating that Galen would have surpassed him with the author backing up this statement by saying the intention was for him to have the potential to be the most powerful Force user ever.

[[one-shotting Arcann]]

I'd argue telekinetically dominating Vader was better.

[[causing explosions from orbit, pulling down ships from orbit in cut dialogue]]

First off, as you yourself just admitted, that's cut content making it irrelevant. Secondly, Galen as of the beginning of the game mused about toppling a replica Jedi temple from orbit believing he could do so easily. He's outright destroyed multiple orbital superstructures around the mid point of the game ( the Kashyyyk skyhook and the Star Destroyer factory on Raxus Prime ).

[[ripping apart multi-storey generators and throwing them as projectiles]]

That's cute. 

https://imgur.com/3G2JZEi

https://imgur.com/nf7w8CM



https://imgur.com/uwSr004

https://imgur.com/8lDDOWr

[[breaking out of Valkorion's Force grip]]

Cool. Galen was surviving his and Sidious's combined energies which were enough to overwhelm Sidious's Force defenses and cause him to become desperate.

Despite Galen's proximity to his person being the cause of the situation that was driving Sidious to desperation ( Galen's physical proximity causing both of their energies to flow through each other's bodies ), Sidious was seemingly unable to dismiss him despite his desperate state being confirmed to be "fueling his powers" at that point.

BreakofDawn wrote:Plus, her overloading generators from Nathema's orbit (AKA still affected by Nathema's void) in a place where the Force was almost impossible to use is still more impressive than Galen's environmental feats.

Why? Can you quantify how much more difficult using the Force on Nathema would have been for Vaylin that it gives us a clear cut picture as to the impressiveness of the feat? Because I'd be highly interested if so. 

Or is this just your presumption which happens to side with the character you favor in this thread who doesn't otherwise possess feats that surpass even Galen's early game accomplishments. If so, that's pretty convenient for you. : )

BreakofDawn wrote:

Force feats can outmatch ragdolling Tantive IV's,

he shifted a destroyed ship in a virtually zero gravity environment with difficulty.

Where did it show him doing so with difficulty? He appeared to accomplish the feat pretty casually from where I'm standing. 

Another thing that should be mentioned is that he accomplished numerous feats like this one after another AFTER powering the cannon which destroyed the ISD and THEN goes on to accomplish the Salvation feat.

I mean, Galen has better versions of all of those feats. 

[[Frightening Vitiate (who believed that she could become his equal)]]

Sidious stating that Galen would have surpassed him with the author backing up this statement by saying the intention was for him to have the potential to be the most powerful Force user ever.

Aside from Vitiate arguably being > TFU Sheev, interesting. So Sean William's word > Lucas. Huh, good to know.

[[one-shotting Arcann]]

I'd argue telekinetically dominating Vader was better.

Despite failing to do so by TFU 2. 

[[causing explosions from orbit, pulling down ships from orbit in cut dialogue]]

First off, as you yourself just admitted, that's cut content making it irrelevant.

Actually, I said I'm "not sure" if it's canon.

Secondly, Galen as of the beginning of the game mused about toppling a replica Jedi temple from orbit believing he could do so easily.

I thought the other day that if I broke a weakened support then I could topple a shed. Guess that makes me comparable to Galen. 

He's outright destroyed multiple orbital superstructures around the mid point of the game ( the Kashyyyk skyhook

Not using game feats considering that they're exaggerated for entertainment purposes. 

and the Star Destroyer factory on Raxus Prime ).

Indirectly, but ok.

[[ripping apart multi-storey generators and throwing them as projectiles]]

That's cute. 

https://imgur.com/3G2JZEi

https://imgur.com/nf7w8CM

Gameplay mechanics? Cute. 

Also, objects are a lot easier to move in space than on a planet, so...

[[breaking out of Valkorion's Force grip]]

Cool. Galen was surviving his and Sidious's combined energies which were enough to overwhelm Sidious's Force defenses and cause him to become desperate.

Lol, bull. 


Without hesitation, he stepped between Kota and the Emperor, taking the full brunt of the Sith lightning into his own body.
The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed standing, seeing the world through a crackling blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.
"Go!" he hissed at Kota. "Hurry!"
The general hesitated only for a moment. He, too, had seen a glimpse of the future, the apprentice remembered. He knew that it came down to a simple choice: him and the Rebels or the apprentice and darkness forever. Gathering up the Rebels, Kola ushered them toward the descending ship.
Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentice's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to.


Nearly knocked unconscious within a few seconds while Sidious was using bolts of lightning meant to torture Kota to death, not outright kill him. When Sidious ups the power as he's hit with his own lightning, Galen's on the brink of unconsciousness/death, clinging on with "feverish will". 

And by the way? Before you say about him reaching the Emperor, not only was this an intended suicide attack (meaning he was putting everything he had into reaching Sidious - who was only a few feet away - and was still on the brink of death if it weren't for his willpower keeping him standing) but as I've previously said it took everything he had just to reach Sidious, who was a few feet away.

Despite Galen's proximity to his person being the cause of the situation that was driving Sidious to desperation ( Galen's physical proximity causing both of their energies to flow through each other's bodies ), Sidious was seemingly unable to dismiss him despite his desperate state being confirmed to be "fueling his powers" at that point.

I welcome you finding a quote for this, since the only noting is that it "engulfed them both", which is generally what happens when you move two objects emitting some kind of force or energy together (e.g. moving a stick that's burning at one end back into a fire so it's completely engulfed). 

Why? Can you quantify how much more difficult using the Force on Nathema would have been for Vaylin that it gives us a clear cut picture as to the impressiveness of the feat? Because I'd be highly interested if so. 

Interestingly enough, I can. Nathema's void:

Stopped chained Vaylin from even being able to use the Force (chained Vaylin here was even more powerful than the one who ripped that generator apart and broke free from Valkorion's Force hold).



Was driving Lana insane despite Valkorion doing everything he could to protect them.

"It's worse here. The void - it's hunger. It wants to devour me, mind and spirit. Annihilate every trace of my existence."


Valkorion could barely manifest himself on the planet.



Even in orbit, Valkorion was struggling to manifest itself (the same region unchained Vaylin overloaded those generators): 



Meetra Surik was struggling to stay sane on Nathema for barely five minutes:

The entire process took less than five minutes, but for Meetra it might as well have been an eternity. She had managed to keep busy up until this point, but while waiting idly by for T3 to finish she began to notice the absence of the Force once more.
She could feel the Void pressing in on her from all sides. At the same time it was pulling on her, trying to rip away the very essence of her existence. Nature abhors a vacuum; the emptiness was trying to fill itself with her energy. For an instant she felt as if she were going to become undone, her physical body discorporating into trillions of subatomic particles that would scatter across the entire surface of Nathema.
No! she screamed in her mind. The Void will not take me! I am more than just a collection of random matter and particles! I am a living being. I am Meetra Surik!
The affirmation of her own existence seemed to push the Void back, at least for the moment. But Meetra knew she couldn’t hold out against it much longer. As much as she tried to ignore what she felt—or, more precisely, didn’t feel—all around her, she knew it was only a matter of time until the horrors of Nathema stripped away her sanity.

Revan could barely draw upon the Force despite only being in Nathema's orbit:

The sensors had picked up another vessel in the system. It was difficult to draw on the Force so close to the ravaged world, and he struggled to get some sense of the passengers on the other ship. By the time his groggy mind registered the threat they posed, it was too late.
Lord Scourge's first impressions of Nathema:


He felt the first hints of what was waiting for him when the shuttle dropped out of hyperspace. Through the windows of the cockpit he saw a gray-and-brown planet looming large before them. Gazing at it, he felt something strange and unsettling. Something unnatural. It took him several moments to realize what was wrong, and even when he did, he didn’t fully grasp the implications. He wasn’t feeling the Force.

So, we have Nathema being capable of completely stripping an Arcann level+ Force user, leaving Scourge and Revan nearly powerless just by being close to the planet (not even in its orbit), and Valkorion barely being able to manifest himself even when just in the planet's orbit.

Despite this, unchained Vaylin reached across a planet with literally no connection to the Force and overloaded generators from orbit. 

So please, tell me how this isn't an impressive feat? At the very least it puts unchained Vaylin as >>> Revan Reborn, Scourge, and even spirit Valkorion. Even using gameplay as an accurate representation of his power, this alone >> moving a Tantive IV ship through space with difficulty.