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The Ellimist
The Ellimist
Level Five
Level Five

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 1st 2019, 10:38 pm
Who wins?
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 1st 2019, 10:49 pm
Probably Arcann; I think EoRotS Kenobi is kind of overrated/overplayed in terms of combative viability. I'll see what others say.
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 1st 2019, 10:51 pm
Arcann.
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 1st 2019, 11:23 pm
Arcann
avatar
LOTL

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 1st 2019, 11:47 pm
No clue on Arcann's latest iteration. KOTFE Arcann loses

MF Kenobi has several angles of argumentation putting him noticeably over IH Kenobi so not really
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 2nd 2019, 1:34 am
Kenobi
Shioz
Shioz

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 2nd 2019, 1:47 am
@MasterCilghal wrote:Kenobi
Praxis
Praxis
Moderator
Moderator

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 2nd 2019, 1:54 am
I think it really just comes down to Kenobi being able to resist Arcann's TK, which I don't think he can.

_________________
EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann VU9Lu85
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 2nd 2019, 2:11 am
I don't buy that Kenobi grew much, if at all, over the course of RotS. This is a very close fight but I'd probably favor Kenobi.
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 2nd 2019, 2:30 pm
Arcann without much issue.
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Three
Level Three

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 2nd 2019, 3:08 pm
General Sarcasm.
Deronn_Solo
Deronn_Solo

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 2nd 2019, 3:48 pm
I'd back Arcann.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Three
Level Three

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 2nd 2019, 4:33 pm
Kenobi
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 2nd 2019, 11:31 pm
Good fight. I'll actually back my money on Obi-Wan.
Praxis
Praxis
Moderator
Moderator

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 2nd 2019, 11:40 pm
What's everyone's rationale? The more I think about this the less sure I am as to who would win.
The Ellimist
The Ellimist
Level Five
Level Five

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 3rd 2019, 1:00 am
I'd have to reread the Anakin vs. Obi Wan fight to see if Obi Wan overcame being hindered vs. Anakin specifically or actually grew more powerful.

I'm not even sure if IH Obi Wan loses to Arcann.
avatar
LOTL

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 3rd 2019, 1:05 am
@The Ellimist wrote:I'd have to reread the Anakin vs. Obi Wan fight to see if Obi Wan overcame being hindered vs. Anakin specifically or actually grew more powerful.

I'm not even sure if IH Obi Wan loses to Arcann.

That is a pretty nonsensical argument tbh that reflects lack of knowledge on the source material that has been catching on and needs to be removed. That and there are other angles of approach that canonically place Kenobi superior to the IH version

I think I'll finalize this notion pretty soon
The Ellimist
The Ellimist
Level Five
Level Five

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 3rd 2019, 1:08 am
@LOTL wrote:
@The Ellimist wrote:I'd have to reread the Anakin vs. Obi Wan fight to see if Obi Wan overcame being hindered vs. Anakin specifically or actually grew more powerful.

I'm not even sure if IH Obi Wan loses to Arcann.

That is a pretty nonsensical argument tbh that reflects lack of knowledge on the source material that has been catching on and needs to be removed. That and there are other angles of approach that canonically place Kenobi superior to the IH version

I think I'll finalize this notion pretty soon

I'll read the fight rn.
The Ellimist
The Ellimist
Level Five
Level Five

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 3rd 2019, 2:19 am
OK, reread it. So main questions:


  1. Is Anakin hindered on Mustafar? -> not really answered in the novelization, but I think most sources suggest "no", at least not in terms of raw power.
  2. Does Obi Wan perform better after letting go of his attachments? -> it seems like it. Anakin is physically dominating him beforehand, and after the attachment monologues it's more even, with Obi Wan eventually winning.
  3. Does Obi Wan perform better because he grew stronger, or was he just not hesitating to strike back at Anakin? -> He also seems to have grown stronger. He's better matching Anakin and no longer getting physically dominated; I doubt the latter was just a result of hesitation to kill, since it was just a matter of Obi Wan getting physically outmuscled.
  4. Does Obi Wan just perform better than before because he was hindered before, or did he grow stronger than his overall baseline? -> This is more difficult to answer. There is that other quote Lotl found from the RotS Play and Sound, Interactive novel: "Anakin and Obi Wan fight fiercely though the control room on Mustafar. They each tap into the force as they never have before." Likewise, the RotS novelization has Obi Wan letting go of more than just his attachment to Anakin - it notes him letting go of other attachments too, which would presumably appear in other fights as well. With those two points, it seems as if you can say: "Enlightened" Obi Wan > Mustafar Obi Wan > IH Obi Wan. This chain seems to work given that evidence; it's more just that it seems to be one of those chains drawn from hyper-analysis of specific quotes rather than a broader picture.
  5. Is this a long-term amp or just something for the fight? -> I'd say that if there was an amp, the revelation wouldn't just fade away, though it might not remain at the same intensity. The OP is about the arguably amped Obi Wan anyway.


If Obi Wan is amped, I'd say he is beyond Arcann. If he is not amped, then I'm unsure on IH Obi Wan vs. Arcann, and Mustafar Obi Wan is still somehow able to survive against tier 9+ Vader, so he might win anyway.
avatar
LOTL

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 3rd 2019, 4:30 am
@The Ellimist wrote:OK, reread it. So main questions:


  1. Is Anakin hindered on Mustafar? -> not really answered in the novelization, but I think most sources suggest "no", at least not in terms of raw power.
  2. Does Obi Wan perform better after letting go of his attachments? -> it seems like it. Anakin is physically dominating him beforehand, and after the attachment monologues it's more even, with Obi Wan eventually winning.
  3. Does Obi Wan perform better because he grew stronger, or was he just not hesitating to strike back at Anakin? -> He also seems to have grown stronger. He's better matching Anakin and no longer getting physically dominated; I doubt the latter was just a result of hesitation to kill, since it was just a matter of Obi Wan getting physically outmuscled.
  4. Does Obi Wan just perform better than before because he was hindered before, or did he grow stronger than his overall baseline? -> This is more difficult to answer. There is that other quote Lotl found from the RotS Play and Sound, Interactive novel: "Anakin and Obi Wan fight fiercely though the control room on Mustafar. They each tap into the force as they never have before." Likewise, the RotS novelization has Obi Wan letting go of more than just his attachment to Anakin - it notes him letting go of other attachments too, which would presumably appear in other fights as well. With those two points, it seems as if you can say: "Enlightened" Obi Wan > Mustafar Obi Wan > IH Obi Wan. This chain seems to work given that evidence; it's more just that it seems to be one of those chains drawn from hyper-analysis of specific quotes rather than a broader picture.
  5. Is this a long-term amp or just something for the fight? -> I'd say that if there was an amp, the revelation wouldn't just fade away, though it might not remain at the same intensity. The OP is about the arguably amped Obi Wan anyway.


If Obi Wan is amped, I'd say he is beyond Arcann. If he is not amped, then I'm unsure on IH Obi Wan vs. Arcann, and Mustafar Obi Wan is still somehow able to survive against tier 9+ Vader, so he might win anyway.

Holistically his speed feat after the battle is pretty nice evidence. The hyperbole he has in that novel outclassed even Anakin's hyperbole from ROTS
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
Level One
Level One

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 5th 2019, 11:22 pm
EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann 1668617588

I honestly am not sure.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 6th 2019, 12:03 am
Kenobi. Arcann isn't doing shit to him if the tier 9 Vader isn't either.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 7th 2019, 11:01 am
Arcann might be more powerful (by a reasonable margin at that) but Mustafar Obi-Wan held his own against MFV, who should still have been a tier 9/very high tier 8 at least. Arcann will get frustrated with Obi-Wan and try to pummel through his defences, which Kenobi will exploit. It all comes down to whether Arcann resorts to the Force or not and, if he does, if Obi-Wan can resist it.

I’ll cautiously back Obi-Wan for now. It’s hard to judge how powerful he was but he’s definitely more skilled.
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
Level One
Level One

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 8th 2019, 5:15 pm
Hmm, for now, I think I'm actually gonna give a slight edge to Kenobi.
The Lost
The Lost
Level Five
Level Five

EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

on September 9th 2019, 8:00 am
Mustafar Kenobi is a powerhouse tbh. He wins.
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EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann Empty Re: EoRotS Obi Wan vs. Arcann

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