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The Ellimist
The Ellimist
Level Five
Level Five

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:47 am
How big is the gap, and what evidence do you base it on?
Sjuttiosju
Sjuttiosju
Level Seven
Level Seven

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:00 am
Pretty damn big.
NotAA3
NotAA3
Level Four
Level Four

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:10 am
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Pretty damn big.
The Ellimist
The Ellimist
Level Five
Level Five

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:57 am
Why?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:23 am
Massive. Before even draining Ziost, he’d gathered enough power from deaths around the globe to perform the planetary drain without any kind of drain, indicating his full power was restored by the time he drained the planet and then increased again when he completely consumed the planet.
The Ellimist
The Ellimist
Level Five
Level Five

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:25 am
@The Ellimist wrote:Why?
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:28 am
Relatively small. The Ziost drain, contrary to what others are saying above, was done while vastly weakened. The main purpose of said drain was to "restore" Vitiate to his prior strength. While he may have gained some small amount of power from the ordeal, nothing suggests he added much to his pool. Any theories that he grew substantially are just that -- theories. The actual evidence we have points to the gap being fairly small.
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:52 am
AFAIK, there's no direct statements saying he grew in power during the "interim" if you wanna call it that; it's all inferred via interpretation of Ziost and surrounding events.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:37 am
@PeraltaEagle45 wrote:Relatively small. The Ziost drain, contrary to what others are saying above, was done while vastly weakened. The main purpose of said drain was to "restore" Vitiate to his prior strength. While he may have gained some small amount of power from the ordeal, nothing suggests he added much to his pool. Any theories that he grew substantially are just that -- theories. The actual evidence we have points to the gap being fairly small.
Not true, actually. Vitiate had to reach a certain threshold to actually drain Ziost, hence why he started by controlling people and feeding off their deaths. He had to reach a certain level to then consume the entire planet without even using a ritual, suggesting he’d regained a considerable amount of his power before even draining the planet and thus amplifying his power yet again.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:06 am
Quite big given his handling of the Oulander, Arcann and Vaylin at the same time.
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:16 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:
@PeraltaEagle45 wrote:Relatively small. The Ziost drain, contrary to what others are saying above, was done while vastly weakened. The main purpose of said drain was to "restore" Vitiate to his prior strength. While he may have gained some small amount of power from the ordeal, nothing suggests he added much to his pool. Any theories that he grew substantially are just that -- theories. The actual evidence we have points to the gap being fairly small.
Not true, actually. Vitiate had to reach a certain threshold to actually drain Ziost, hence why he started by controlling people and feeding off their deaths. He had to reach a certain level to then consume the entire planet without even using a ritual, suggesting he’d regained a considerable amount of his power before even draining the planet and thus amplifying his power yet again.

Yes, he had regained enough of his power to perform the Ziost feat. But again, the drain was said to have restored him, not amped him. The fact remains that he was still significantly weakened until he'd drained Ziost. And nothing indicates his growth was all that large.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:44 pm
@PeraltaEagle45 wrote:Relatively small. The Ziost drain, contrary to what others are saying above, was done while vastly weakened. The main purpose of said drain was to "restore" Vitiate to his prior strength. While he may have gained some small amount of power from the ordeal, nothing suggests he added much to his pool. Any theories that he grew substantially are just that -- theories. The actual evidence we have points to the gap being fairly small.

What is this evidence of it being small?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:36 pm
Azronger wrote:
@PeraltaEagle45 wrote:Relatively small. The Ziost drain, contrary to what others are saying above, was done while vastly weakened. The main purpose of said drain was to "restore" Vitiate to his prior strength. While he may have gained some small amount of power from the ordeal, nothing suggests he added much to his pool. Any theories that he grew substantially are just that -- theories. The actual evidence we have points to the gap being fairly small.

What is this evidence of it being small?

There isn't any. It's pure speculation contradicted by Vitiate's stages during the expansion (tagging you in this so I can answer yours at the same time, @PeraltaEagle45):

Step 1: Start controlling people to replenish his diminished strength. Kovach explains it best: "Using the outpost's resources, our former Emperor can massacre the defenceless to fuel him. The more powerful he becomes, the more people he can control."

Step 2: Increase the scale of the possessions, enabling him to restore his former strength to its full potential. Lana also supports the idea that his power was growing considerably before even draining the planet in her description of the monoliths: "They're made from Sith alchemy. A sign of Vitiate's growing power. Extremely strong, next to impossible to kill." The possessions also began in New Adasta before spreading across the entire planet, indicating Vitiate had already started nearing full strength once again.

Step 3: Upon regaining his full strength, he completely drains the planet to augment his power further. If Vitiate could have, he would have drained the planet the moment he arrived there. However, he had to replenish much of his strength by having his victims kill each other before even thinking of draining the planet.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:19 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:
Azronger wrote:
@PeraltaEagle45 wrote:Relatively small. The Ziost drain, contrary to what others are saying above, was done while vastly weakened. The main purpose of said drain was to "restore" Vitiate to his prior strength. While he may have gained some small amount of power from the ordeal, nothing suggests he added much to his pool. Any theories that he grew substantially are just that -- theories. The actual evidence we have points to the gap being fairly small.

What is this evidence of it being small?

There isn't any. It's pure speculation contradicted by Vitiate's stages during the expansion (tagging you in this so I can answer yours at the same time, @PeraltaEagle45):

Step 1: Start controlling people to replenish his diminished strength. Kovach explains it best: "Using the outpost's resources, our former Emperor can massacre the defenceless to fuel him. The more powerful he becomes, the more people he can control."

Step 2: Increase the scale of the possessions, enabling him to restore his former strength to its full potential. Lana also supports the idea that his power was growing considerably before even draining the planet in her description of the monoliths: "They're made from Sith alchemy. A sign of Vitiate's growing power. Extremely strong, next to impossible to kill." The possessions also began in New Adasta before spreading across the entire planet, indicating Vitiate had already started nearing full strength once again.

Step 3: Upon regaining his full strength, he completely drains the planet to augment his power further. If Vitiate could have, he would have drained the planet the moment he arrived there. However, he had to replenish much of his strength by having his victims kill each other before even thinking of draining the planet.

Where is it stated that Vitiate was at full power when he unleashed the death wave?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:48 pm
@Azronger It's not, but he'd have to be operating at a level of power necessary to not only control people across an entire planet, but also ultimately drain the planet. He'd have to be operating at a level fairly close to his peak, if not a bit below.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
Moderator | Champion of the Light
Moderator | Champion of the Light

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:54 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:@Azronger It's not, but he'd have to be operating at a level of power necessary to not only control people across an entire planet, but also ultimately drain the planet. He'd have to be operating at a level fairly close to his peak, if not a bit below.

Based on what would he have to be operating close to his peak?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Six
Level Six

Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate? Empty Re: Gap between Valkorion and Vitiate?

on Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:25 pm
The man now called Vitiate by those who once served him was not strong enough to usurp all life on Yavin 4 after his reawakening. However, he did gain power enough to flee the jungle moon and survive. Now that he has found in Ziost a suitable target to replenish himself--now that he appears to grow more powerful by the hour--what now? When will his unforgiving depletion of Ziost end? And when it does end, what fate will befall the rest of the galaxy?


Not proof obviously, but confirmation that he was growing more and more powerful by the moment. The only other time Vitiate has managed to unleash a planetary level drain was with a ritual. In this case, he did so without a ritual, indicating that his power had to be pretty close to his full for him to replicate his original feat but at a higher intensity and with more demanding resources (AKA power) required.
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