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SithSauce
SithSauce
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Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader

August 25th 2019, 1:39 pm
Basileus wrote:
@SithSauce wrote:
Basileus wrote:1. Lucas wasn’t referring to power
2. Pretty sure the 80 percent crap was before the PT was even made. Even then, it’s a pretty vague quote to use as a power base. And again, Vader hasn’t demonstrated he’s anywhere near that level - it’s all hype, but when he has to prove it, he’s lacklustre as hell
1. What do you mean? The interview in it's context was about how Vader failed to live up to his true potential. Lucas was saying how he was on his way to surpassing Sidious, but Kenobi screwed that up on Mustafar. From then on he was not as strong as Palpatine, he was like Maul or Dooku. He is clearly referring to power here.
2. G-canon hype you mean?

1. He was like Dooku and Maul - less powerful than the emperor - that does NOT mean Lucas was trying to say Vader was as powerful as the other two.
2. Can someone verify that the quote was OT era?
1. Dude I never implied that he is as powerful as them. Whether Vader is superior to them is up to you. All I'm saying he is in their general power range, so that means neither Dooku or Maul can stomp him.
2.  I'll look for quote.


Last edited by SithSauce on August 25th 2019, 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
The Reborn Emperor
The Reborn Emperor
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August 25th 2019, 1:39 pm
Then we have the problem of someone like Luke in ESB being comparable combatively with Dooku and Maul, which is ridiculous and doesn’t make sense at all.
The Reborn Emperor
The Reborn Emperor
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August 25th 2019, 1:40 pm
Again, prove Lucas is specifically talking about power in the force as opposed to status under the emperor.
SithSauce
SithSauce
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Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader

August 25th 2019, 1:44 pm
ESB Luke isn't comparable to Vader tho
The Reborn Emperor
The Reborn Emperor
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August 25th 2019, 1:47 pm
Yeah, read the sources on the fight. Even Vader himself admits Luke challenged him. As hidalgo said, Lucas might explain it as being the will of the story; but from a logical viewpoint Vader is a shadow of his former self. Vader was equaled in his prime by a guy with a year or so worth of training, mostly by himself. Yeah it was Luke, but Anakin, who had at least as much force potential was trained as a full Jedi for how much longer.
The Reborn Emperor
The Reborn Emperor
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August 25th 2019, 1:52 pm
It becomes even more ridiculous if you sub to Vader being well above his tier 9 self on Mustafar. Meaning Luke as of RotJ could beat Sidious or Yoda lol. It’s autism scaling that doesn’t work. The logical interpretation that actually makes sense is that Vader lost a drastic portion of his potential, and no amount of mastery and honing of skill can make up for that.
SithSauce
SithSauce
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August 25th 2019, 2:02 pm
Basileus wrote:Yeah, read the sources on the fight. Even Vader himself admits Luke challenged him. As hidalgo said, Lucas might explain it as being the will of the story; but from a logical viewpoint Vader is a shadow of his former self. Vader was equaled in his prime by a guy with a year or so worth of training, mostly by himself. Yeah it was Luke, but Anakin, who had at least as much force potential was trained as a full Jedi for how much longer.
G
But Luke was confirmed to have completed his training in ROTJ. And there were circumstances during the fight. 
Source for Vader admitting Luke challenged him?
Vader was holding back. He was never going to go all out on his son. The entire time he was toying with him. Even when Luke hits him on the shoulder, he makes a goofy sound, implying he wasn't taking the fight seriously. And as soon as he gets hit, he cuts the crap and chops his hand off.


Last edited by SithSauce on August 25th 2019, 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
The Reborn Emperor
The Reborn Emperor
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August 25th 2019, 2:04 pm
Wow, this is YouTube tier logic. I’ll let someone address those points, on my phone. If not I’ll do it personally tomorrow.
Praxis
Praxis
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August 25th 2019, 2:04 pm
Don't post the quotes, he'll just say Perry is dumb.

Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1019854026

Edit: Fixed it


Last edited by Praxis on August 25th 2019, 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Praxis
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Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader

August 25th 2019, 2:07 pm
*Perry
Ziggy
Ziggy

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August 25th 2019, 2:08 pm
@SithSauce wrote: Even when Luke hits him on the shoulder, he makes a goofy sound implying he wasn't taking the fight seriously

Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader - Page 2 200
The Adventurous Jedi
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August 25th 2019, 2:30 pm
@SithSauce We've had several discussions on Luke vs Vader and every one has ended with you not responding and then repeating the same debunked gibberish in another thread. Just concede that Luke canonically put up a good fight against Vader in ESB.
SithSauce
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August 25th 2019, 2:43 pm
NotAA3 wrote:@SithSauce We've had several discussions on Luke vs Vader and every one has ended with you not responding and then repeating the same debunked gibberish in another thread. Just concede that Luke canonically put up a good fight against Vader in ESB.
Sure he put up a decent fight towards the end. But that decent fight he put up didn't last very long, i'll say that.
The Adventurous Jedi
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August 25th 2019, 2:46 pm
No, he put up a good fight for the whole engagement. Taking the exact moment Vader won and ignoring the rest of the fight is a faulty argument.
SithSauce
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August 25th 2019, 2:49 pm
NotAA3 wrote:No, he put up a good fight for the whole engagement. Taking the exact moment Vader won and ignoring the rest of the fight is a faulty argument.
Even the part where Vader is literally tossing objects at him without the move of a finger, with Luke barely managing to defend himself. That to you is putting up a good fight?
The Adventurous Jedi
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August 25th 2019, 3:37 pm
Yes.
BreakofDawn
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August 26th 2019, 4:19 am
I’m pretty sure Vader’s “goofy sound” was the equivalent of him going “listen here you lil shit” before effortlessly stomping Luke in about 3 strikes.
The Reborn Emperor
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August 26th 2019, 4:22 am
This straight up refusal of facts.
SithSauce
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August 26th 2019, 5:55 am
Basileus wrote:This straight up refusal of facts.
Say's the one who refuses to accept that Vader is 20% less of Sidious's power just because they think it somehow hurts their precious scaling  Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1220391476
KingofBlades
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August 26th 2019, 10:17 am
@SithSauce wrote:
Basileus wrote:This straight up refusal of facts.
Say's the one who refuses to accept that Vader is 20% less of Sidious's power just because they think it somehow hurts their precious scaling  Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1220391476
I hope you realize Vader being 80% of Sidious means absolutely nothing.
SithSauce
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Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader

August 26th 2019, 12:28 pm
@KingofBlades wrote:
@SithSauce wrote:
Basileus wrote:This straight up refusal of facts.
Say's the one who refuses to accept that Vader is 20% less of Sidious's power just because they think it somehow hurts their precious scaling  Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader - Page 2 1220391476
I hope you realize Vader being 80% of Sidious means absolutely nothing.
80% of the most powerful sith lords means nothing. I'm not trying to say this means that Vader is above Dooku or anything like that. But considering how low people have Vader on here (even lower than his AOTC self), I think this is a relevant quote to bring up
NevesYtneves (DC77)
NevesYtneves (DC77)
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Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader - Page 2 Empty Re: Vong Krayt vs Darth Vader

August 26th 2019, 12:47 pm
Vader was holding back. He was never going to go all out on his son. The entire time he was toying with him. Even when Luke hits him on the shoulder, he makes a goofy sound, implying he wasn't taking the fight seriously. And as soon as he gets hit, he cuts the crap and chops his hand off.

Screenshotted this gem.

Also, regarding the 80% argument just examine the context, the intention isn't to hype Vader up, nor is that particularly difficult to decipher from reading the damn quote. We have no reference for what it means or any way to quantify it. Lucas simply selected a number to display that Vader is weaker than Sheev, it's that simple. Lucas himself doesn't even suggest it's concrete, hence the use of "maybe" when making the assertion. The fact that this argument still exists is idiotic.
HellfireUnit
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August 26th 2019, 12:53 pm
The %80 percent arguement is debatable. He is still close to Emperor though. Honestly Post-Mustafar Vader lowball has reached ridicilous levels here. I'll be working on changing that when I have time to login to my pc. Ugh, too much work I have these days. Anyways, get ready folks for me and Ant's Post Suit Vader versus KF Vader thread. Soon on theaters.
SithSauce
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August 26th 2019, 1:01 pm
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:
Vader was holding back. He was never going to go all out on his son. The entire time he was toying with him. Even when Luke hits him on the shoulder, he makes a goofy sound, implying he wasn't taking the fight seriously. And as soon as he gets hit, he cuts the crap and chops his hand off.

Screenshotted this gem.

Also, regarding the 80% argument just examine the context, the intention isn't to hype Vader up, nor is that particularly difficult to decipher from reading the damn quote. We have no reference for what it means or any way to quantify it. Lucas simply selected a number to display that Vader is weaker than Sheev, it's that simple. Lucas himself doesn't even suggest it's concrete, hence the use of "maybe" when making the assertion. The fact that this argument still exists is idiotic.
Never said this hypes up Vader lol. if Lucas's intention was for Vader to be a sub TPM Kenobi level combat or whatever, he would have probably gone with a much lower percentage to compare his power level to Sidious. 80% is a pretty big percentage, hence he is not a sub TPM Kenobi or AOTC Anakin oponent like some people are saying.
There.
NevesYtneves (DC77)
NevesYtneves (DC77)
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August 26th 2019, 1:12 pm
Lucas never even says he's exactly 80%, he says he is "maybe", 80%, ie: it's not a certainty. For all we know Vader could be much lower. Moreover we have no reference point for what percentage of Sheev we place TPM Kenobi at so the point doesn't stand regardless (Not that I even believe TPM Kenobi>Vader lol).
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