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CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
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on December 10th 2019, 4:26 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote: Underrated/overrated characters on forums? - Page 12 1668617588 Didn't they also crash and then get captured, suggesting that there wasn't a fight?

Perhaps. Perhaps not. There’s nothing concrete on Koth either way with regards to showings; we only know that he’s likely an aggressive fighter. I don’t think he has the technical skill to hang with the likes of Tiin, Windu, Billaba etc and doesn’t have physiological advantages like Oppo Rancissis, Poof, Piell. He doesn’t have an immense amount of raw power like Yoda or Yaddle. The only council members I could potentially see him being superior to are Gallia & Piell.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
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on December 10th 2019, 4:39 pm
I mean, as a Zabrak he should have a physical edge over an ordinary human anyway, and as a member of the Jedi Council described as a legendary duelist and with a high pain tolerance he should be as physically capable as any other Council member. I agree that he may be behind them in the Force, but it's hard to say that he's below them in skill considering his performance against Grievous.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
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on December 10th 2019, 4:49 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:considering his performance against Grievous.
I’m not taking his performance against Grievous into account. George shifted his opinion on Grievous sometime around 2004-5 and made him borderline useless. Koth beating someone who George intended to get absolutely obliterated by Gungans and is sub Ventress’ caliber (whatever that means. Sub Unduli too?) according to Dave Filoni is not a good showing. Trying to place the two continuities together yet preaching George’s vision (this isn’t aimed just at you btw) is contradictory because George’s vision in TCW had completely changed.

For me, it’s Old EU or Newer EU, no in-between
Zenwolf
Zenwolf

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on December 10th 2019, 5:09 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@CuckedCurry wrote:
@BreakofDawn wrote:considering his performance against Grievous.
I’m not taking his performance against Grievous into account. George shifted his opinion on Grievous sometime around 2004-5 and made him borderline useless. Koth beating someone who George intended to get absolutely obliterated by Gungans and is sub Ventress’ caliber (whatever that means. Sub Unduli too?) according to Dave Filoni is not a good showing. Trying to place the two continuities together yet preaching George’s vision (this isn’t aimed just at you btw) is contradictory because George’s vision in TCW had completely changed.

For me, it’s Old EU or Newer EU, no in-between

Well at least someone agrees with me about this.
Dolph
Dolph
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on December 10th 2019, 7:01 pm
Regardless of what you think, TCW is one of the most reputable sources for Canon information on the Prequel Trilogy era.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
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on December 10th 2019, 8:11 pm
@CuckedCurry I really don't understand the problem with GG losing to the Gungans. They had range, far superior numbers, and Grievous' arrogance inunderestimating them. He was also beating them despite this until Jar Jar's friend incapacitated him with his spear. Not to mention that the Gungans also had impact grenades and spears specifically designed to take down machinery, which meant Grievous was at a massive disadvantage from the start.

The Gungans had literally just taken down a droid army by themselves. It's not really a low showing to be beating these knob heads despite having massive disadvantages piled up against you and then getting beaten just because you underestimated them and jobbed at the very end.

Filoni only thought that Grievous < Ventress because of the Force, which he thought, and I quote,  I still don’t believe that, at this point — one-to-one — that Grievous could really take out someone like Ventress in a lightsaber fight. I mean, it’s just me, but he doesn’t have the Force. He can’t wield it. I don’t see how he can hope to be as proficient as a Jedi or a Sith could be fighting with a lightsaber, which is why he’s always willing to dirty play at the end of the day.


We know that Ventress > Grievous in sabers is utter bollocks considering that he's beaten Obi-Wan multiple times (even lol stomped him in the unfinished episodes), as well as matched SoD Maul blow for blow, matched Kit Fisto despite being heavily injured, etc. Each time, these Jedi (and Sith) only gain the advantage by using the Force, same as with Ventress. She only managed to beat him on Dathomir, which in both canon and Legends is a dark side nexus. In fact, I don't think Obi-Wan's ever beaten Grievous in sabers in TCW, in that he either gets beaten and has to use the Force or has to retreat.
caffeineandshiny
caffeineandshiny

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on December 10th 2019, 9:20 pm
Most underrated?

Siri Tachi. Partially due to obscurity, but she was shown as a peer of Obi Wan. Not equal by any means, but certainly not a random Jedi.

Most overrated?
Exar Kun. Dude swings around through the rankings like a boomerang.
caffeineandshiny
caffeineandshiny

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on December 10th 2019, 9:26 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:Kanan Jarrus, Ahsoka Tano, and Ezra Bridger are also underrated on the board. Considering doing a RT for one of them.
If you do, tag me? Been waiting for a good compilation on Rebels characters.


Last edited by caffeineandshiny on December 10th 2019, 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
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on December 10th 2019, 9:27 pm
How dare you insult Kun the omnipotent, who scales above Vitiate!

And will do. KJ is better with Ahsoka than I am so it'd probably be Kanan.
caffeineandshiny
caffeineandshiny

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on December 10th 2019, 9:29 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@BreakofDawn wrote:How dare you insult Kun the omnipotent, who scales above Vitiate!

And will do. KJ is better with Ahsoka than I am so it'd probably be Kanan.

🤣 Haven't you heard? Exar scales above DE Sidious too! While weakened!

And that would honestly excite me more, Ahsoka is more well covered even if she could use a bit of respect.
Dolph
Dolph
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on December 11th 2019, 9:45 am
Pong Krell is potent ngl.
O-Siri
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on December 11th 2019, 1:49 pm
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BreakofDawn (away) wrote:Filoni only thought that Grievous < Ventress because of the Force, which he thought, and I quote,  I still don’t believe that, at this point — one-to-one — that Grievous could really take out someone like Ventress in a lightsaber fight. I mean, it’s just me, but he doesn’t have the Force. He can’t wield it. I don’t see how he can hope to be as proficient as a Jedi or a Sith could be fighting with a lightsaber, which is why he’s always willing to dirty play at the end of the day.


We know that Ventress > Grievous in sabers is utter bollocks considering that he's beaten Obi-Wan multiple times (even lol stomped him in the unfinished episodes),
She didn't use the Force on Grievous though she out finessed him in pure sabers and it's clear from Filini's quote that the supposed nexus amp isn't the reason. As for Kenobi, it ties into Grievous's dirty play as Filini noted. Grievous never beat Kenobi in pure sabers, in all the times he got the better of Kenobi he used his legs and his sneaky extra arms. No finesse or technical skill involved just abusing his physicals like the dirty fighter he is. In terms of saber technique, he's always been portrayed as subpar relative to Jedi Council Members going by Lucas/Filini vision. 


as well as matched SoD Maul blow for blow,

The first battle was inconclusive, the second was Maul blitzing him, and the third was Maul BFRing him in short order. 

Overall Grievous is 0-2-1 with Maul. Again Grievous only gained the advantage with his legs, not superior saber skill. 



matched Kit Fisto despite being heavily injured
Fisto was getting the better of him, Grievous wasn't at all matching him, he even concedes "the power changed hands" when the back up arrived. 



Each time, these Jedi (and Sith) only gain the advantage by using the Force, same as with Ventress.

Again Ventress didn't use the Force, she out finessed him in pure sabers. And it's clear from the Filini quote that Ventress being amped wasn't the intent and that she beat Grievous because she was plain better in a fair fight and emphasized Grievous needed to play dirty to win.

And Fisto was walking him down before he used the Force push and Adi likewise seemed to get the better of him in their brief exchange.
The Witness
The Witness

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on December 13th 2019, 4:39 am
Kenobi is honestly overrated. Some people try to compare him to Dooku and suggest he is on his level or maybe superior. The bottom line is Kenobi couldn't contend with Dooku even with the chosen one backing him up. Whether you factor in TCW or you don't, S6 substantiates this even further by outright having Kenobi get blitzed by Dooku. As for MF Kenobi, there is no concrete evidence to suggest he grew that much in power from the beginning of ROTS to the end. And its pretty much well known at this point that Kenobi had a stylistic saber advantage over Vader, and that Vader could not focus his power properly due to his own hindrance.


Last edited by The Witness on December 13th 2019, 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total
HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Five
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on December 13th 2019, 4:44 am
Nah, Kenobi is correctly rated mostly and he is quite below Dooku. Anakin is the overrated one.
The Witness
The Witness

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on December 13th 2019, 4:51 am
I agree. Honestly some of the PT titans are overrated af
O-Siri
O-Siri

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on December 13th 2019, 5:55 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@The Witness wrote:Kenobi is honestly overrated. Some people try to compare him to Dooku and suggest he is on his level or maybe superior. The bottom line is Kenobi couldn't contend with Dooku even with the chosen one backing him up. Whether you factor in TCW or you don't, S6 substantiates this even further by outright having Kenobi get blitzed by Dooku. As for MF Kenobi, there is no concrete evidence to suggest he grew that much in power from the beginning of ROTS to the end. And its pretty much well known at this point that Kenobi had a stylistic saber advantage over Vader, and that Vader could not focus his power properly due to his own hindrance.
Dooku only tooled Kenobi when he used Ataru. He only used aggressive sequences in S6 - we never see him take a defensive stance in that episode - which would collaborate with Dooku's surprise at Kenobi's mastery of Soresu when he stonewalled him, he had thought Ataru was his main form previously. Dooku proponents try to conflate Kenobi's Ataru showings with his Soresu abilities, which just doesn't work. Dooku never tooled Kenobi who met him with Soresu in pure sabers.

I do agree that "end of RotS" Kenobi is extremely overrated though. And I honestly to this point think Dooku will always have Kenobi's number. It's a style thing. They're both the best at what they do but while Kenobi is an expert at weathering the storm and coming on with expertly timed counterstrikes, Dooku's technical emphasis isn't going to lend him as many openings to exploit as would from a pressure fighter like Anakin, Maul, or Grievous. 

Kenobi's vastly superior performance against a more powerful version of Anakin, however, is ample evidence he's at the same level as Dooku.
Gaunter O'Dimm
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on December 18th 2019, 7:26 am
@Gaunter O'Dimm wrote:Overrated: Tenebrous, Plagueis, Vader (not so much anymore thanks to Ant's valiant efforts)

Underrated: Caedus, Kyle Katarn, Malak

Still this, though I would replace Caedus and Katarn with NJO as a whole (- Luke, obviously), and add Darth Malgus to underrated.
HellfireUnit
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on December 18th 2019, 8:23 am
Malgus is correctly rated imo, Malak is overrated.
BreakofDawn
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on December 18th 2019, 8:29 am
Malgus and Vader are vastly underrated, as is Maul tbh. Plagueis is probably overrated.
Dolph
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on December 18th 2019, 9:45 am
@BreakofDawn wrote:Malgus and Vader are vastly underrated, as is Maul tbh. Plagueis is probably overrated.
Why is Plagueis overrated? He has massive backing from Banite scaling, which is extremely potent.
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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on December 18th 2019, 10:15 am
idk about massive scaling, but he is in fact stronger than the previous members for sure. We dont know even know what the gap between a master at his prime, and a student at his prime after killing his master even is. For all we know, it could barely noticeable. Now, if we want to be realistic, Plagueis could easily be 3 times stronger than Bane ever was. Thats hella impressive just by itself.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
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on December 18th 2019, 10:55 am
EmperorCaedus wrote:
@BreakofDawn wrote:Malgus and Vader are vastly underrated, as is Maul tbh. Plagueis is probably overrated.
Why is Plagueis overrated? He has massive backing from Banite scaling, which is extremely potent.
People scale him to ROTS Sheev based on suspect arguments.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
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on December 18th 2019, 11:16 am
I mean...he’s likely on the same level as ROTS Wankatine, maybe Yoda’s equal
IG
IG
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on December 18th 2019, 11:19 am
Maks Leem wrote:I mean...he’s likely on the same level as ROTS Wankatine, maybe Yoda’s equal
Eeth Koth > Kolar
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
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on December 18th 2019, 11:21 am
no, he isnt lol

ROTS palpatine >> TPM palpatine after the amp > Plagueis ~> TPM plagueis before the amp. 

Sheev inst stomping plagueis at all, but plagueis is not faring much better than dooku imo.
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