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The Prodigal Knight
The Prodigal Knight

SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) Empty SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan)

October 22nd 2023, 9:35 am
Standard forum rules apply, no character limits but try to keep posts concise, 2 weeks time limit, 5 meters starting distance, all characters in their prime, yada yada yada
The Prodigal Knight
The Prodigal Knight

SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) Empty The Duel of Fates

October 25th 2023, 3:42 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
"A Jedi needs more than mere bravery…overconfidence has been the undoing of many a seasoned warrior. Let the Force be your strength!"
SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) 00000012


Unlike my last debate with Omni Bomni, this debate will not feature any long autistic scaling chains that directly binds Yaddle. I adopted this new methodology primarily because:
A) TOTJ and PT are thousands of years apart and I just really don't see any binding scaling chains that can indubitably bind either characters
B) Scaling chains are inherently hard to prove, as they require every single chain to hold up to scrutiny. Piggybacking off A, this would be even harder considering the chronological gap between the 2 characters both IU and OOU
C) Scaling chains are just inherently not well-aligned with authorial intent. No authors are gonna be thinking of X > Y > Z when creating works. The story group has confirmed multiple times power level quotes like these are not tracked or considered by the LFL (link).
I don't know if Xan will choose to adopt this methodology or not, but these are my reasonings. This first respect thread post will mostly be trying to put out all the impressive facts that Arca has under his belt, and create a foundation for me to cook later on in my posts.
As always, there will be ad-hominem in my posts, but recall they're not supposed to be personal. Xan and I are very good friends. Let's see if that continues after the debate SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) 3344068304
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The Prodigy vs the failed Padawan

I want to really start of this debate by establishing the floors of both characters. Their skill level at a very young age, and their growth over time. If all else fails, this serves as a solid indicator that Arca started far beyond Yaddle and grew comparatively as much.

Lightsaber skills:

Arca's lightsaber skills are often overlooked, but they are undoubtedly within the very top echelon of the Star Wars universe. Lightsaber combat is "a skill in which Arca himself had a natural affinity", which enabled him to "earn his legendary status as an expert swordsman in the Hyabb Twith campaigns". He was "well versed in lightsaber combat". This legendary status was primarily earned during the Hyabb Twith Campaigns, where he "leaped forward immediately to confront the onrushing murderers, disarming three and killing one in the first few seconds of the furious assault." He dismantled 4 Nelori "in the first few seconds of the furious assault". Notably, it was highly implied that 5 Nelori is more than a match for a single Jedi knight, when the same source stated "they [the Jedi] overcame five foes for every one of their own fallen companions.". The absolute maximum of a Jedi knight is to overcome 5 foes, and Arca Jeth was capable of dismantling 4 within the very first seconds of the duel. This was after a previous duel where the Nelori launched a "vicious counter-attack" where Arca Jeth was able to hold them back for "two days". Leading only 4 of the original 11 Jedi, Arca "destroyed" the "bulk of the Nelori fleet". With his comrades he was able to dismantle "More than 200 Nelori Marauders" who "lashed out with every weapon in their possession, blaster carbines, pulse-wave rifles, vibro-knives, electro-staves, even make- shift swords and clubs.". The fact that a decades pre-prime Arca Jeth was capable of holding back a huge Nelori invasion with only a dozen Jedi knight as support for 2 days, as well as overcoming a massive army of Nelori, as well as personally dismantling the near equivalent of a Jedi Knight in mere seconds, is certainly proof of his "legendary status as an expert swordsman".
The choice of stats afforded to Arca is also very telling of his specific dueling proficiency. Aside from the standard block deflect etc, Arca Jeth was given "Improved defenses, melee defense, rapid strike, weapon focus and weapon proficiency (lightsabers)" (link). In POTJ, he was also given "Combat expertise, exotic weapon proficiency (lightsaber), weapon focus (lightsaber), etc.". I think it's quite clear that every single source, from direct commentary on his skill levels to his stats, all stresses his unique proficiency in dueling.

--- --- --- --- ---
Unlike Arca's wealth of lightsaber dueling accolades, Yaddle is far less impressive. It's very hard to quantify Arca's performance early on with Yaddle's on with Marauders as Yaddle was carried by her master utilizing the dark side and even then they were quickly overwhelmed compared to Arca holding against an army of Neloris for 2 straight days and destroying the bulk of their army. However, compared to Arca, Yaddle has nowhere close to the level of combative expertise. In her 100 years of isolation she was only starting to learn the "art of combat" which she did by "defending herself from her predators". Even after her isolation, Yoda noted that her "lessons from her Jedi masters are incomplete", and even at the end of the comic series says "doubt I will always have". More embarrassing perhaps, is the fact that she HASN'T STARTED TO USE A LIGHTSABER ever AFTER her century long isolation.
This is further proven by the fact that while Arca was stomping 4 Nelori in seconds, Yaddle was trading blows with the Marauder leader (1, 2).

I think the comparison is pretty straight forward at this point. Arca was already legendary for his expertise in lightsaber combat while Yaddle hasn't even begun using a lightsaber. It would be a tall task to prove Yaddle is remotely comparable to Arca when it comes to combative capabilities.


I think this comparison is very simple as well. JATM noted THRICE in their stat that Arca Jeth is a "telekinetic savant" who they also added "improved move light object" with the massive collection of combative applications of telekinesis ranking from Battle Strike to force slam.
Yaddle was a relative failure when it comes to telekinesis. In her 100 years isolation, she was taking deep meditation to lift a single pottery, to the point where the pottery shattered the moment her concentration was broken (link). Even with her powers improving, she was only lifting relatively bigger objects with her unique abilities of deep meditation (link). You can see that she was in a meditative state for both of her later impressive TK feats:

--- --- ---
So while Arca is a telekinetic savant, a term defined as somebody with "an exceptional aptitude in one particular field" (google translte), and can freely use his improved telekinesis in combat, Yaddle required deep meditation and trance in order to perform TK feats. I wonder how that will work when Arca is stomping her in sabers...


I don't question Yaddle's growth during her period of isolation or afterwards, but Arca's growth needs to be emphasized as well. It was stated that "his mastery of the ability grows with each use" (regarding battle meditation), but I think this can be used for his other abilities as well. It should be noted that ALL of the feats previously covered happened decades prior to when he became a Jedi master as TOTJ companion noted that "he became a Jedi master... decades later". After which, he will be directly involved in the trainings of students on Arkania, all the events that happened in the KOTOR comics, as well as his career as the watchman of Onderon. It IS absolutely crazy however that prior to decades of growth where his abilities improved with his every use, he ALREADY received accolades beyond anything Yaddle has under her belt.

--- ---- ---


  • Arca was already legendary for his expertise in lightsaber combat while Yaddle hasn't even begun using a lightsaber.
  • Arca is a telekinetic savant, a term defined as somebody with "an exceptional aptitude in one particular field" (google translte), and can freely use his improved telekinesis in combat. Yaddle required deep meditation and trance in order to perform TK feats.

  • Arca received massive growth after the fact, his abilities growing with his every use, while continuing his growth in the decades after the campaigns mentioned.

Arca vs Yaddle analyzed in their prime:

This section will be where I try to prove that Arca has everything needed to beat Yaddle in their respective primes. He simply outclasses her in every single regard.

Force Presence:

One of the most famous and widely wanked argument for Yaddle is her force presence being powerful enough to empower Obi Wan and Anakin (link,link). This is impressive, but still dwarfed when compared to the TOTJ masters.

Here's Thon who made Ambria a lightside nexus with his presence:

“ In return, she had witnessed scenes plucked from the planet's history: the Sith sorceress as she was consumed by her failed spell; the Jedi Master's struggle to trap the dark side in Lake Natth.
“the Huntress could feel this was a place of power: a nexus for both the light and dark sides of the Force.”
Source: Darth Bane PoD

Notably this was done after he overpowered the dark side taints of the darkside, which stems from a ritual that "called on more power than any individual had ask for the dark side" (link) which was further added to by the abundance of dark side spirits that went to the planet (link). Thon was able to "easily repel" the dark side spirit prior to just obliterating them and trapping them all in a lake (link)

--- --- ---

Arca Jeth is even more impressive. His lightside presence was capable of overpowering the dark side taints of Freedon Nadd. There's too many quotes so I put a spoiler tag:


"The presence of Arca... banished the dark lord". Arca says that "my light is stronger... than the dark side of this place". He "disrupts the dark side" which was "defeated by his [Arca's] light side powers". Freedon Nadd "withdrew his powers in Amanoa" when he was "confronted by the lightside powers of Master Arca". Arca's presence "depleted the dark side", etc. etc.

This feat is just infinitely more impressive than Yaddle's performance, as Arca actively overpowered an immensely powerful source of darkside with his presence alone. How powerful was Amanoa? She was capable of overpowering the Jedi padawans with waves of darkness that sowed confusion and sorrow:


She also absorbed the power of Adas' holocron:
Once Amanoa had learned all the 5ith knowledge Adas would offer,·she entrusted the Holocron to Novar, telling him to use it to train the best of his students.
TOTJ Companion

The same power that would jump boost Maul:
Of course Anakin had not seen the power of the dark side the way that Obi-Wan had. He had not witnessed his Master being cut down by a Sith Lord. He had not been nearly killed himself. After such a close experience Obi-Wan was well aware of the threat the Sith posed if they regained all of their ancient power. And recapturing the knowledge contained in a Sith Holocron would be a large step in that direction. It could be devastating for the entire galaxy.
-Jedi Apprentice Special Edition: The Followers

Adas' holocron was also able to perform feats far more impressive than Yaddle's presence on Qui Gon Jinn:

Qui-Gon immediately anchored himself to the cliff and reached out to the Force to try and stop the fall. But the dark energy in the giant crevasse worked against him. He felt oddly exhausted and had little ability to concentrate.


"I don't see anything," Obi-Wan said. His voice sounded strangely hollow, and Qui-Gon wasn't sure if it was because of the chasm, his fall, or because they were so close to the Holocron. The concentration of dark knowledge could tap one's strength. He certainly weakened himself. But the strange hollow feeling also let Qui-Gon know they were on the right track. He felt at once repelled and drawn closer.


Qui-Gon's mind reeled. He could feel that they were close to the Holocron. Very close. He tried to focus, to find its location, but the dark side was playing tricks with his mind. It was so near and still beyond his mental vision. There was so much he didn't understand. If Lundi had held the Holocron, where was it now? Did someone else have it? Had he been unable to handle the power?

-Jedi Apprentice Special Edition: The Followers

So Arca scales beyond somebody who overpowered a massive DS nexus and made it a LS nexus, himself using his presence alone to overpower somebody with incredible power. We can talk about how immensely amped Amanoa is by Nadd and how Arca is more overpowering Nadd than he is Amanoa, but we can cover than in the second post. Note how Arca also implies that his lightside presence was also combatting with the DS of the planet:
SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) 00010

Arca's presence not only outclasses Yaddle's by a mile, but he has also used it to display extremely potent combative performance.
--- --- ---


Another one of Yaddle's greatest abilities, I want to just cast it out of the debate for now. Let's first start by noting that Yaddle has NEVER displayed Morichro in combat, even against NFUs or beasts. Without ANY combative performances do we really expect her to use the ability to any affect when Arca would be instantly spamming her with powers? Regardless, let's just throw this argument away from the debate really quickly. Let's start by noting that she built her power off the wisdom of the Ancient masters.
The ability was:
noted as an "ancient art" (link)
Noted as "a forgotten Jedi art" (link)
Yaddle even says outright that the secret of the technique was "realized by the Ancient Jedi"  (link)

I wonder what a technique built entirely off the wisdom of the ancient Jedi masters will do to Arca who was noted to have "unusual wisdom and abilities" even when compared to TOTJ masters (link)
Press X for doubt it will work on Arca

--- --- --- --- ---
Even if the above isn't convincing to you, let's look at the world of stats which is the only way for Yaddle to have any sort of advantage here. Let's recall that Yaddle has a force user level of 15 and thus a Morichro roll of 20 (link). Arca has a will defense of 12, plus an additional 3 from being a level 3 Jedi Instructor (which gives an extra +3 for will defense bonus). Yaddle's morichro will only work on him if Arca gets a 1-4 roll out of 20 which is a 20% chance. But let's also recall that a morichro attack takes a full round (link).

So while Yaddle has a 20% chance to succeed in game, her real chances are even slimmer. For one, Arca has a self heal of +11 in POTJ. Yaddle, who was noted to be a master of healing (1,2), only has a self healing stat point of +9 (link). Furthermore, let's recall that the effect of Morichro is making the victim unconscious (1,2). Arca has a special ability of "remain conscious" in D6:
SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) 010

Arca has a skillset SPECIFICALLY capable of resisting Morichro. Yaddle is NOT going to be able to get ANY form of advantage there.
--- --- ---

Standing within order:

One of the biggest problem with Yaddle is that her standing within the Jedi order is highly suspect. Recall that Yoda believes that she isn't ready to get on the Jedi council. That's not a lone case either. Yaddle was never noted to be a senior member, and is a short-term member of the order. Notably, a "Jedi's standing in the order is related to strength in the force" per POTJ, and senior members are chosen particularly from their stronger connection to the force (link). The fact that Yaddle is not among the higher more senior echelons of the order, while masters like Piell are, is probably indicative of the fact that she is among the council's lower tiers. Notably, Arca is a "premiere Jedi of his time"  (link) and was singled out by The Krath war droids to be the most powerful Jedi of her time (1,2).

I can maybe do comparisons between TOTJ order and PT order in my next post, but this will suffice for now as for why Arca should generally be higher in the rankings of their Jedi order than Yaddle respectively. This argument will be infinitely more developed on by me along the debate.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Arca's combat optimization:

This section should be relatively simple. Arca Jeth is super-built for combat. Aside from his status as a Jedi Guardian who specifically emphasize combat, he also masters a variety of abilities that makes him one of the strongest Jedi Master of all time and the most optimized for combat. We'll cover 2 in this post, and hopefully will cover more and more as we go along.


From a very young age Arca displayed his sensitivity and hyperawareness with an impressive display of force sense. Able to use the force to scan an entire planet down to the crusts (1,2). He was also able to immediately tell the intention of Exar Kun (1,2). The ability to be hyper aware of his surroundings as well as easily see through his enemy's intention are all skills that can be optimized toward combat.

Flash of Genius:

Arca in JATM has the ability of getting a "flash of genius" that allows him to advance a lot of his stats. This was noted to be a "special technique". This gives him the ability to get an AOTC Anakin-esq flash of brilliance in any given duel. I don't think I need to explain why this is a technique that is very very optimized for improving his combative proficiency.

Battle Meditation

Arca's potency:

Arca's mastery of battle meditation should speak for itself honestly. But just in case you're not sure, Arca was continuously noted as somebody who excels at battle meditation (link). He was also noted as one of the "greatest practitioner" of Battle meditation:
SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) 0000010

Even out of that list he was one of the better ones, as he explicitly is better at BM than Thon (link).

Furthermore, Arca was able to overpower the battle meditation of Queen Amanoa (1,2). Amanoa who was able to use BM to change the tides of the battle previously (link). she did this against a fucking massive army (link).

It seems to be very clear that she is one of the most potent user of BM in history
--- --- ---

Combative Application:

At this point many readers are probably wondering why I'm bringing up Arca's potency in BM in a 1v1 debate. Aside from the fact that BM requires a very advanced set of force abilities that are useful for 1v1 combat, Arca seems to utilize a specific type of BM that can be used in combat. The basis of his technique seems to be him literally imposing his will on reality. The example of this type of BM was demonstrated by Nomi in TOTJ:
SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) 00000011
SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) 00000010
She was able to "form an image" that later "becomes reality".

This application is similar to what Arca did while decades pre-prime:
SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) 00011

he changed his focus, forming an image of victory in his mind and offering it to the Force. And with a swift suddenness, the tide of the battle changed as the light side swept across the battlefield, strengthening the re- maining Jedi and weakening the Marauders.
The Jedi Knights were victorious, but their success was tempered by the loss of half of their force.

- TOTJ Companion

So as you can see, he formed an image of success in his mind and imposed that imagination on reality. This application of literally applying ur will to reality is similar to what Anakin Skywalker did in ROTS:
“In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.


So he does.

He decides to win.

He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair. The hand falls with a bar of scarlet blaze still extending from its spastic death grip, and Anakin's heart sings for the fall of that red blade.”

ROTS Senior Novelization

Anakin "decides" that he will win, and imposed his will on the force. HIs decision becomes reality. The application here is the same. Both Arca and Nomi imposed their will on reality and made their image of victory real. While the process for BM and Anakin is different, the basis of this ability, the ability to impose your will on reality, is something that is combatively applicable. Notice that this feat was prior to decades of improvement where "his mastery of the ability grows with each use". In his prime he would be far far better at doing this.


1. Arca as a knight is far more skilled and powerful than Yaddle, and experienced at least similar levels of growth
2. He outclasses Yaddle in every area, from having far more impressive presence feats, a skillset specifically able to counter morichro, to a better standings in the order.
3. He is specifically optimized for combat with incredible hyper-awareness and an insane mastery of BM that allows her to impose her will on reality

Last edited by The Prodigal Knight on October 25th 2023, 3:54 am; edited 1 time in total
The Prodigal Knight
The Prodigal Knight

SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) Empty Post 1 Addendum

October 25th 2023, 3:51 am

Addendum: Sourcing

All quotes in red comes from TOTJ companion:


All brown sources are from Jedi Academy Training Manuel:


All green sources are from Power of the Jedi Sourcebook:


All blue sources are from the Star Wars tales 5, orange and indigo sources are from other sources. I already tried to source them within the debate.
♤Zased Emperor♤
♤Zased Emperor♤

SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) Empty Re: SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan)

October 25th 2023, 8:13 am
The Outcasted One
The Outcasted One

SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) Empty Re: SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan)

November 14th 2023, 10:17 pm
The debaters has agreed to switch characters. This debate is now cancelled. The new debate will happen on this thread.
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SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan) Empty Re: SS - Arena of the Unknowns: Arca Jeth (GLO) vs Yaddle (XannotZan)

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