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Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus Empty Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus

September 18th 2023, 8:28 pm
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)

Proposal

My proposal is as follows:

  • In Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse, while fighting against Abeloth Beyond Shadows, Luke and Krayt were not under the influence of a dark side nexus.


The two main proposals for there being a dark side nexus are:

1. Abeloth's planet in the physical world is a dark side nexus
2. The Font of Power is a dark side nexus and it is present Beyond Shadows

Below I have posted evidence proving conclusively that neither Abeloth's planet nor the Font of Power affected Krayt or Luke during the fight. I would greatly appreciate if other SI debaters would give this a read and either vote that they agree with me, vote that they disagree, or comment on which parts they agree with and disagree with.

Table of Contents

  1. Proof Abeloth's planet does not function as a dark side nexus while Beyond Shadows
    1.1 Proof that Living Force energy can't be used as a resource Beyond Shadows.

  2. Proof that the Font of Power wasn't used as a resource by Krayt or Abeloth during their battle in FotJ: Apocalypse


1. Proof Abeloth's planet does not function as a dark side nexus while Beyond Shadows...


...and proof that Living Force energy can't be used as a resource Beyond Shadows.


The main argument for Abeloth's planet being a nexus even while Beyond Shadows was that the plant matter of the planet was still substantial when viewed Beyond Shadows, much like Luke's body. In contrast, most other objects like rocks, buildings or even dead bodies are seen as insubstantial.

Luke's body was substantial not because of the living Force energy present in it, but only because his essence was still loosely tethered to it. As explained below, Luke was tethered to his body, left a vestige of himself behind to sustain it, and that is the only reason his body, a source of living Force energy, is more substantial than his clothes. If Luke wasn't connected to his body, it wouldn't be substantial at all beyond shadows despite being a source of living energy.
Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus Imag1076

Fate of the Jedi: Abyss, August 2009

The rocks, stone, other dead bodies of mind walkers whose spirits have fully abandoned their bodies, basically 99% of the matter in the environment, are what make up the insubstantial "shadows" while Beyond Shadows. Luke notices that the only objects on the planet other than his body which still appear substantial is the plant matter. He asks Seek, why is the plant matter substantial? If living force energy isn't what gives my body substance, but rather my tethered essence, why are these plants substantial?

Seek, critically, responds that the reason the plant matter is substantial is because "another presence," i.e Abeloth, is tethered to the plants.

In other words, the plants on Abeloth's planet are only a Force nexus/give off a Force signature Beyond Shadows insofar as Abeloth herself is tethered to them, much like how Luke's body only appears substantial because his spirit is still tethered to it. Abeloth's plants are no more of a nexus Beyond Shadows than Luke's body is. From there, the rest of the planet is noted to be a complete shadow and insubstantial, which seems like fairly damning evidence that it's not a dark side nexus for Luke or Krayt.

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Fate of the Jedi: Abyss, August 2009

In short, Beyond Shadows is a realm purely of the essence/spirit. Only essences, or objects that are tethered to an essence like Luke's body or Abeloth's plants, appear substantial. It's a bonafide fact that living force energy can't be drawn on as a resource, isn't at all substantial, while Beyond Shadows - anything physical is just a "shadow."

2. Proof that the Font of Power wasn't used as a resource by Krayt or Abeloth during their battle in FotJ: Apocalypse.


The following excerpts from FotJ: Abyss are taken from when Luke first visits the Font of Power, the first time he goes Beyond Shadows. The TL;DR is that Luke doesn't sense, nor is he impacted by the Font's energies, in any way, while he is mere meters away from it. This is a far greater distance than Krayt was from the Font while fighting Abeloth, so it's extremely unlikely that he benefited from it if Luke wasn't when he was practically standing next to it.

The Font of Power is a contained nexus: you can only access its power by either drinking from it or by being within meters proximity of it. The evidence for this is clear by the fact Luke, while very near the Font of Power, feels "a bone-shivering joy a thousand times more intense than anything he had ever before experienced. He felt as though he had become the Force and the Force had become him, and he was flooded with a calming bliss that seemed as deep as space. Pain, fear, anguish—even the memory of such suffering—vanished. He knew only the pure, eternal joy of existence, a song as vast and ageless as the universe itself."

Immediately after this, Luke walks forward and notices "In the center of the courtyard sat the curving basin of a formal fountain, the water jet gurgling somewhere inside a pall of steam so filled with sulfur that it was more brown than yellow." He is told this is “The Font of Power."
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Fate of the Jedi: Abyss, August 2009

Right away, alarm bells should be ringing: Luke is in close proximity to the Font of Power, an extremely, primordially powerful dark side nexus said to grant unlimited, godlike power, such as what empowered Abeloth and Sarasu Taalon... yet the only thing Luke senses is the sulfuric steam emanating from the Font.

Then, "Luke turned his head toward the speaker. He saw a skull-faced Givin—Feryl, he recalled—next to him, and he began to remember where he was …or rather, to remember the quest that had led him here, since he had no idea where here actually was. Luke was on a mission. He needed to find out why Jacen had fallen prey to the dark side. He needed to determine whether his nephew’s sojourn had anything to do with the psychoses troubling so many young Jedi Knights." So it is clear that despite being within meters of the Font, able to see the pall of steam filled with sulfur emanating from it, Luke still doesn't realize he's near the most powerful dark side nexus he will have ever felt up to this point in history...
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Fate of the Jedi: Abyss, August 2009

It's noted that “If you have the courage to drink of it, you will have the power to achieve anything.” and “There is no limit to the strength that can be drawn from the Font of Power.” So now Luke has been told explicitly that the Font is an incredible source of power... and yet he senses no Force energy from it. He senses none of the power it contains or promises. By all appearances, if one wants to access the Font's power, one must drink from it...
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Fate of the Jedi: Abyss, August 2009

Luke walks even closer to the Font and makes detailed observations about his environment, without realizing the Font itself is a dark side nexus:
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Fate of the Jedi: Abyss, August 2009

"Luke continued forward and slowly came to realize that the whole courtyard was filled with the acrid stench of sulfur. The fumes weren’t burning his throat or nose, since he did not actually seem to be breathing them. But they were making him queasy, and as he drew closer to the fountain, something inside him protested so violently that he felt as though he might retch." So while Luke is definitely becoming aware of the horrible stench of sulfer the steam from the font is giving off, he still hasn't grasped that he's near the most powerful dark side nexus he will ever have felt up to this point in time...
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Fate of the Jedi: Abyss, August 2009

"When he reached the basin, Luke could finally see through the curtain of steam to the font itself." - Luke could not see the font itself, the steam acted as a curtain, obscuring the font proper.

"It was a jet of water about as thick as his leg, so filled with sulfur and iron that it was as brown as a tree trunk—and so permeated with Force energy that it literally sent him stumbling back, his head spinning and his stomach churning. The fountain was not just tainted with dark side power, it was imbued with it—as if it were rising up from some deep-buried reservoir of dark side energy that had been building, preparing to blow for not just millennia, but since the beginning of time itself." - so only once he is practically sticking his head into the Font does he realize that it's even permeated and imbued with Force energy. And it is only then that he is party to the well-known symptoms of power the Font gives off that informs us how powerful it is.
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Fate of the Jedi: Abyss, August 2009

Only after this experience does Luke finally note "The Font of Power was clearly a dark side nexus." Luke then notes "Such nexuses arose as a result of any number of events—all of them bad. Perhaps a powerful user of the dark side had once lived in the valley—or merely been killed there. The Valley of Dark Lords on Korriban had become a dark side nexus because it had been inhabited by Sith Lords for so long, and a nexus had formed in orbit over Endor after Palpatine died there." - and herein lies the crux. Luke compares the Font of Power to other well known nexuses such as the Valley of Dark Lords on Korriban or the dark side stain Palpatine left above Endor when he died... only, these nexuses can be sensed from a great distance away, you certainly don't need to be standing on top of them before you realize you're on a dark side nexus.
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Fate of the Jedi: Abyss, August 2009

And just to put an extra nail in the coffin, the following line reads: "Whatever the case, as a former Jedi Knight, Ryontarr would have known better than to think Luke would actually drink from the fountain without noticing the nexus." - stated verbatim that Luke was only ever going to notice the nexus of the Font at the point of drinking it.
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Fate of the Jedi: Abyss, August 2009

Therefore, it's self-evident that the Font of Power, as a nexus, behaves differently from a normal nexus **while Beyond Shadows** - Luke's point blank proximity to the Font is the first time he's able to discern that it's not only a dark side nexus at all, but that it's actually a primordially powerful dark side nexus that is clearly comparable to others he has sensed in the past. The strength of the nexus isn't in question, and as a nexus Luke notes that it's fundamentally the same as the likes of the Valley or Endor, so the core difference is that unlike those nexuses, the Font of Power nexus - the water itself - is tightly contained within the Font basin and is only accessible at close proximity or, indeed, by drinking from it. In addition to that, as shown in Section 1, living Force energy, the energy Force nexuses give off to amplify Force users, isn't a usable resource in the realm of pure spirit that is Beyond Shadows.

If the Font was a nexus you could access from a long distance, Luke would have recognised it as one from much further away while he was walking towards it and actively trying to learn more about both it and his environment like he has any other dark side nexus in the past.

Luke's experience of unity to the Force beyond shadows is "a bone-shivering joy a thousand times more intense than anything he had ever before experienced. He felt as though he had become the Force and the Force had become him" - among many other powerful descriptors. The idea that Luke is weakened by his proximity to the Font during the Lake of Apparitions fight is ridiculous, then, when not only are the descriptions of how Luke feels beyond shadows in direct contradiction to that, but he's even further from the Font during that fight than when he was walking towards and still unable to notice it until he was right next to it.

Conclusion


As a final note: there is not a single quote stating, suggesting or even vaguely hinting at the idea that Krayt or Luke were impacted by any kind of Force nexus during the Beyond Shadows fight. That lack of evidence, combined with the counter-evidence above, should be enough to conclude for good that my proposal is correct: "In Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse, while fighting against Abeloth Beyond Shadows, Luke and Krayt were not under the influence of a dark side nexus."

Please vote below whether you agree or disagree.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus Empty Re: Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus

September 20th 2023, 8:08 pm
Agreed, Living Force cannot be used as a resource Beyond Shadows, nice blog Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus 1289255181
AncientPower
AncientPower
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus Empty Re: Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus

September 21st 2023, 6:36 am
This looks ironclad, so agreed.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
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Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus Empty Re: Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus

September 24th 2023, 5:50 pm
Looks solid. This blog has my endorsement.
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Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus Empty Re: Proposal For Peer Review: Beyond Shadows Is Not a Dark Side Nexxus

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