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Vaelias
Vaelias

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 3rd 2021, 4:26 am
Message reputation : 100% (3 votes)

CONCERNING DARTH MAUL, BATTLE OF THE SITH LORDS


How Darth Maul's Character progresses past his last appearance

Battle of the Sith Lords better known as the Canceled Darth Maul game is the basis for this argument which I will lay out into three parts in order to assess what we can gather from this

I. CANONICITY


Dan Borth CEO of Redfly Studios and the creator of Battle of the Sith Lords was interviewed about the game where he affirmed Lucas' heavy involvement in the game and his Ideas

Dan Borth on Lucas' involvement wrote:So we never got he chance to tell our story, he never sat down and said lets hear what you guys have, when we sat down he just started telling us what he wanted

George is just going to have to say thumbs up or just tell you exactly what he wants, usually he tells you exactly what he wants.

Dan Borth wrote:Ultimately the final story Lucas wanted was "challenging" to say the least.

We never pitched it to him. We were excited to but never got the chance. He just pitched the story to us and did as commanded.

Dan Borth wrote:Lucas wanted a 'buddy cop-like experience' with Darth Maul and Darth Talon — a Sith Lady separated by more than 170 years of Star Wars fiction from Maul — teaming up as friends. Red Fly tried to make that new direction work, figuring out gameplay mechanics to satisfy LucasArts' suggestions."

In 2015 Dan hosted a reddit post where he answered questions regarding the game

Dan Borth Responding to Questions wrote:Was Lucas involved in the process at all?
He was more involved than I ever expected him to be. We met with him which was amazing for us.

Dan Borth wrote:We worked on a Force unleashed but Lucas didn't want Maul to use a ton of Force powers.
yeah we worked on FU2 so we know how much different it is to that. Lucas also was very adamant about maul NOT using the force like that.
We already made a force unleashed game so we don't want to make that over the top force power a thing.

Dan Borth wrote:How much freedom are you given to advance the mythology of a character like Darth Maul? Is it pretty locked down?
We were given a lot in the beginning then were told what we needed to do
Here we can gather that Lucas was pretty much the lead story teller for the game which was being developed at this point completely according to George Lucas' internal notes and drafts, he pretty much took over the project

Dan Borth wrote:originally we wanted to stick with an origin story that had you playing a young Maul that was taken from his home by Sidious.
Originally before George Lucas pretty much took over, note that it would only be ideas put together by the LucasArts team and Lucas himself that would be considered Canon to the Legends continuity, so this original Idea for the game would not apply.

Game informer held an interview with Redfly where we can see that the vison for this game was completely geared in Lucas direction after his involvement
Gameinformer wrote:The team tried to outline the game’s strengths, features, and overall design, but they were cut off. Lucas’ representatives said “Nope.”

gameinformer wrote:“For the entire next week, [the team] worked at LucasArts on unifying a vision and coming up with an X statement,” says the source. Meegan and Markus took active roles in the project, helping cement its vision. “Fred and Paul were very demanding, but in a good way. They wanted the best out of our people. We learned a lot from them.”
From this we can gather that after Lucas' 'takeover' LucasArts worked closely with Redfly to apply Lucas' drafts

Redfly Creatives wrote:“Before they could finish their spiel, Lucas cut them off, stood up, walked over to the statues, rotated them to be facing the same direction, pushed them together, and said ‘They’re friends!’” adds the source. “He wanted these characters to be friends, and to play off of each other. He talked about the show Burn Notice as a reference point. He likened Darth Maul to Sonny from The Godfather, and he likened Darth Talon to Lauren Bacall.

Gameinformer wrote:When this vast time divide was brought up to Lucas’ attention, he brushed off the notion of it not working, and said that it could instead be a descendant of Darth Maul or a clone of him.

Dan Borth wrote:Darth Talon was interjected into the story. From there the main character really wasn't Maul but was an heir of his that was basically just like him. We thought we could design that character to look different but that was not something they wanted.

George Lucas' involvement in the game renders his internal drafts for the game official G-Canon
Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords G_cano10

so anything after the games takeover was George Lucas' image seeing as LucasArts even came one board to help RedFly develop the game after George took control to the point where they where "being told what to do" by Lucas

II. MAUL'S CONNECTION WITH THE LEGACY ERA


So it is obvious that the real Maul will have died somewhere between his last appearance in the Prequel Era and the Legacy Era, Lucas intends that the Maul in Legacy be Mauls Heir, Descendant or Clone, it is made clear however that it is infact a Maul clone, seeing as Lucas and his team did not want this Maul to be different to the Maul we know
Dan Borth wrote:We thought we could design that character to look different but that was not something they wanted
Thus we can conclude that it is a Maul Clone or Doppelganger/Entity similar to the one that fights Vader in Star Wars Infinities "Heir" or "Relative" could still also be considered a Doppelganger/Entity or Clone

So we have it that the Maul we see in Legacy is not the real Maul. However that does not mean that the REAL Maul is not involved


Gameinformer wrote:Lucas wanted a 'buddy cop-like experience' with Darth Maul and Darth Talon — a Sith Lady separated by more than 170 years of Star Wars fiction from Maul — teaming up as friends. Red Fly tried to make that new direction work, figuring out gameplay mechanics to satisfy LucasArts' suggestions."

Dan Borth on Lucas' intentions wrote:“the heir of Maul had to be a secret. He could be trained by the ghost of Maul himself in the ways of the Sith, and wait until it was time to ‘strike back’ at the Sith for polluting the rule of Two: One Master, One Apprentice."

Dan Borth wrote:"How we could move maul into that time period, that would be a good thing for him because he would want to being back the rule of two, basically it meant that Maul was going on a mission to reinstitute the sith as a rule of two a master an a apprentice against all these Sith under Darth Krayt"

Dan Borth wrote:"The story we came up with was that Maul was against the idea that there could be thousands of Sith warriors so he was completely against the new Sith. His allegiance with Talon was to benefit himself and get close to destroy them all. His character had to be an atheist about the Sith and lost his faith or a Fundamentalist about it and go back to the Rule of two.

This can be some indication that what LucasArts had in mind for the main story was for Maul to overthrow Krayt at some point in some way and reinstate the Rule of two, this could have been the direction Legends continuity was going in after the death of Darth Wredd and the end of the Rule of One, with Maul possibly being Emperor and the Rule of Two reinstated
I would imagine if Disney did not buy Lucasfilm out and this game was released as planned Legends material from the modern era would carry on from the end of this game, at least that is what is clear from this and the direction it was headed, under the man himself GL. All this looks all the more likely with GL confirming his sequel trilogy ideas where to include Maul and Talon, which likely would have carried on from the events of the Darth Maul game, or leading up to it.

So to conclude this segment we know where the general gist of the game was going under LucasArts and Lucas' leadership
Some Key take aways
- Maul in Legacy Era
- Maul to Team up with Talon
- Maul Clone or Doppelganger being the Main Maul body we see / play as
- Maul becomes a Force Ghost / Sith Spirit
- Maul's Force Ghost / Sith Spirit guiding Maul Clone
- Maul was likely a peer to Krayt in some way

III. SIGNIFICANCE OF INTERNAL DRAFTS


So... lets assess Maul's potential,

Darth Maul - Shadow Hunter wrote:''The man who had taken the young Maul from a backwater planet and raised him to be his successor. He owed Darth Sidious everything.''

Maul Lockdown wrote:''For all Darth Sidious’s talk of his role as his apprentice and eventual successor, Maul still felt precious little connection to the Sith grand plan for the galaxy and his place within it.

As shown here Maul is noted multiple times as a successor to Sidious, even from Sidious' POV, meaning Maul has more force potential than Sidious himself, as in clear Rule of Two fashion

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords 66445210
Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Maul_p10

George Lucas, Cult of Darth Vader wrote:And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That’s what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe.

The Wrath of Darth Maul wrote:"While you might think that your life is harsh and unpleasant, and that I am sometimes cruel, there is a reason for you to endure such pain. The reason is that you must become strong in every way. You must learn to overcome pain. Someday, you might become stronger than I. You'd like that, wouldn't you? To be stronger than I?

Sidious even straight admits Maul has the potential to be more powerful than him, the very fact Sidious chose Maul as his apprentice is proof of this, it is also confirmed in G-Canon with George's quote

It is unclear when Sidious actually reached his full potential but he most certainly surpassed his potential by Dark Empire, so this does not necessarily mean Maul could reach DE Sidious levels of power naturally, however ROTJ Sidious would likely be near enough where his potential is at.

Maul being a Doppleganger or a Clone is significant because, the Clone will not have been chopped in half, thus he will retain his full force potential that exceeded that of Palpatine's
it should be a given but he is depicted with his legs here, along side Talon, meaning that these images were created after Lucas' involvement
Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Maul_g10

It is also important to note that this Maul clone in Legacy will have likely retained the full strength of Maul if not more powerful at base we see this with the Maul doppelganger in infinites that takes on Vader, that Maul Doppelganger/Entity is specifically intended to be the same strength as normal TPM Maul, also we see clone Starkiller possess more powers and is generally as powerful as the original host + more
Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Sk_mor11

the real Maul spirit training and guiding the new Maul, could be indicative of Maul being an unanchored Sith spirit much like Sidious and Exar Kun, as there is nothing of significance to Maul (that we know of) that could have served as an anchor to Maul, unless he is bound to the Maul clone.

With Maul's potential being above that of Sidious, it is very possible that by Legacy Maul would have reached his potential guided by or possibly even manifested by the original Maul spirit which seems very likely seeing as the game was to be centered around Darth Maul himself

So the huge note for Mauls character is that he most probably reached his potential to be a rough peer with ROTJ Sidious, possibly even surpassing his natural potential seeing as Maul has cheated death, and probably inhabited a clone body, much like Palpatine himself, or at the least taught a Maul clone who will have possessed the original Maul potential. we do not know how strong the original Maul was when he died, but he would have passed that onto or manifested that power into his clone who would have far more potential than the Mauls who was chopped in half.

it is affirmed from Lucas' intentions both for this game and is idea for his Sequel Trilogy that he intends Maul to rule and take Sheev's place bringing back the Rule of Two alongside Talon. Doing away with the Rule of One

The story obviously has a lot of holes in it being unreleased but from all we can gather from confirmed G-Canon internal notes, It looks likely Maul in Legacy Era would be far more powerful than the PT Era Maul and probably reached his full potential. Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords 1289255181

This is Maul's PRIME

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Maul_g11


Last edited by Vaelias on February 3rd 2021, 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
lorenzo.r.2nd
lorenzo.r.2nd
Level Three
Level Three

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 3rd 2021, 4:53 am
uh cool?
Vaelias
Vaelias

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 3rd 2021, 5:25 am
@lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:uh cool?
Need help deciding if it’s cool or not ?
Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords 04360b10

The Merchant
The Merchant

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 3rd 2021, 8:02 am
Yeah, Lucas wanting to make the Maul.the big bad of his sequel trilogy is pretty telling how powerful he imagined him to be.
RedGuard1an
RedGuard1an

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 3rd 2021, 10:23 am
I thought it was gonna be set before TPM and just force in Legacy characters.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 3rd 2021, 2:37 pm
KingKopecz wrote:I thought it was gonna be set before TPM and just force in Legacy characters.

Nope that was the original idea then Lucas took over the story board and demanded they jump to the Legacy era with Maul & Talon, his clear intention was for them to rule, so it’s pretty certain that’s what happened after Darth Wredd, pretty cool to think Maul is the last Sith Lord in history that we know of
Zenwolf
Zenwolf
Level One
Level One

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 3rd 2021, 3:37 pm
Yet we're never gonna get that or anymore Legacy era content. <.< ....Really annoying, I wanted to know what happens next!
Vaelias
Vaelias

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 3rd 2021, 3:50 pm
@Zenwolf wrote:Yet we're never gonna get that or anymore Legacy era content. <.< ....Really annoying, I wanted to know what happens next!
 Me too sucks, so bad fuck Disney
RedGuard1an
RedGuard1an

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 3rd 2021, 4:09 pm
Don't worry at least we have the high republic  Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords 1019854026
Zenwolf
Zenwolf
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Level One

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 3rd 2021, 6:06 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Vaelias wrote:
@Zenwolf wrote:Yet we're never gonna get that or anymore Legacy era content. <.< ....Really annoying, I wanted to know what happens next!
 Me too sucks, so bad fuck Disney

I really don't understand why they can't just have two separate ongoing universes. That would actually make a lot more content which in turn would net far more profit. If anything, it would also mean hiring more people for jobs who would need them, not like Disney doesn't have enough money. They wouldn't have to split resources that way if that's what they would be worried about.

The only hitch would be carefully making sure there isn't any Canon overlap, but that's easily solved by having a Legends brand on the work. If fans get confused, that would be their problem for not reading.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 3rd 2021, 6:56 pm
@Zenwolf wrote:
@Vaelias wrote:
@Zenwolf wrote:Yet we're never gonna get that or anymore Legacy era content. <.< ....Really annoying, I wanted to know what happens next!
 Me too sucks, so bad fuck Disney

I really don't understand why they can't just have two separate ongoing universes. That would actually make a lot more content which in turn would net far more profit. If anything, it would also mean hiring more people for jobs who would need them, not like Disney doesn't have enough money. They wouldn't have to split resources that way if that's what they would be worried about.

The only hitch would be carefully making sure there isn't any Canon overlap, but that's easily solved by having a Legends brand on the work. If fans get confused, that would be their problem for not reading.
IKR!!! just let the old OG writers continue making books and shit and allow legends projects to continue, keep new disney teams out of legends tho
iamthatguy
iamthatguy

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

February 4th 2021, 5:33 pm
KingKopecz wrote:Don't worry at least we have the high republic  Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords 1019854026

Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords 1289255181 Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords 1289255181
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Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords Empty Re: Concerning Darth Maul, Battle of the Sith Lords

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