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VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 8th 2021, 7:42 pm
^
Tybalt
Tybalt

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 8th 2021, 8:00 pm
Obi-Wan Kenobi.
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level Two
Level Two

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 1:45 am
Obi-Wan even at this point was capable of casually performing feats that the Banites were struggling with at the end of their line let alone at the middle.

Kenobi destroys.
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 2:10 am
Kenobi scales above him
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Four
Level Four

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 3:16 am
Gravid stomps
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 3:49 am
I doubt Gravid passes TPM Maul. Kenobi stomps.
Vengean
Vengean

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 8:16 am
Gravid stomps. At least he wasn't insane at one point.
Tybalt
Tybalt

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 8:24 am
@Vengean wrote:Gravid stomps. At least he wasn't insane at one point.

Maul is far more powerful than Gravid, and he can't stomp Obi-Wan.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Four
Level Four

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 10:44 am
Why is Maul more powerful than Gravid?
Tybalt
Tybalt

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 10:45 am
@CuckedCurry wrote:Why is Maul more powerful than Gravid?

Banite scaling.
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 10:47 am
Maul doesn’t get Banite scaling lol
Tybalt
Tybalt

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 10:48 am
@KingKopecz wrote:Maul doesn’t get Banite scaling lol

He's a Banite Sith, and the TPM Flapbook confirms he is stronger than previous Banite Sith.
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 10:51 am
He never surpassed Sidious and that quote says “the Sith are back and more powerful than ever”. That’d only place him above Bane and Zannah since it only refers to Sith that faced the Jedi.
Tybalt
Tybalt

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 10:53 am
@KingKopecz wrote:He never surpassed Sidious and that quote says “the Sith are back and more powerful than ever”. That’d only place him above Bane and Zannah since it only refers to Sith that faced the Jedi.

He doesn't need to surpass Sidious. The TPM Flapbook is specifically talking about Maul.

"Ever" means in the history of Darth Bane's Sith Order.
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 11:07 am
That doesn't make sense. Banite scaling is based off of the idea that the apprentice surpasses the master. Maul never surpassed Sidious so there is no reason why he should have it.
As for the flapbook quote it literally says the Sith were believed to be extinct and Maul is proof they're back and more powerful than ever.
Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Maul_q10
Bane and Zannah were the last Sith the Jedi had seen before their "extinction." So the quote can't be used to have Maul above any Banite after Zannah.
Tybalt
Tybalt

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 11:16 am
@KingKopecz

That doesn't make sense. Banite scaling is based off of the idea that the apprentice surpasses the master. Maul never surpassed Sidious so there is no reason why he should have it.

Correction: That doesn't make sense to you.

As for the flapbook quote it literally says the Sith were believed to be extinct and Maul is proof they're back and more powerful than ever.
Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Maul_q10
Bane and Zannah were the last Sith the Jedi had seen before their "extinction." So the quote can't be used to have Maul above any Banite after Zannah.

Yes, it says that they are "deadlier than ever." That would obviously include previous Banite Sith. Thank you for agreeing with me. Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) 1289255181

The debate is now over as that was my argument.
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 11:22 am
@Tybalt wrote:Correction: That doesn't make sense to you.
Well then explain why it does make sense.
@Tybalt wrote:Yes, it says that they are "deadlier than ever." That would obviously include previous Banite Sith. Thank you for agreeing with me. Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) 1289255181

The debate is now over as that was my argument.
That also doesn't make sense. If you agree with me then that wouldn't be your argument because I literally explained why that quote doesn't bind Gravid lmao.
Tybalt
Tybalt

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 11:25 am
@KingKopecz You conceded that Maul is "more powerful than" prior Banite Sith which is you agreeing to my argument. Please stop arguing now.
KingKopecz
KingKopecz

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 11:33 am
Message reputation : 100% (2 votes)
What? I never conceded Maul is deadlier than prior Sith. I said he's only deadlier than Band and Zannah. The quote doesn't prove he's dealier than any Banites after that such as Vectivus or Gravid because they were around when the Sith were still believed to be extinct.
Tybalt
Tybalt

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 11:35 am
Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) 2829155256
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 12:05 pm
@KingKopecz wrote:What? I never conceded Maul is deadlier than prior Sith. I said he's only deadlier than Band and Zannah. The quote doesn't prove he's dealier than any Banites after that such as Vectivus or Gravid because they were around when the Sith were still believed to be extinct.
Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) 1289255181

So I take it that Kenobi takes it with fair difficulty.
DarthFatcow
DarthFatcow

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 12:56 pm
Obi Wan wins fairly easy.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 6:16 pm
@Tybalt: For what it's worth, I don't think @KingKopecz conceded to anything here. His point from the onset is that the quote is referring only to pre-Banite Sith, similar (I believe) to your recent argument that the quote is referring only to Banite Sith. When he wrote that the "Sith are stronger than ever," he's writing it with that specific POV, just like you do with yours. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, but the debate certainly doesn't seem over. I'm not sure myself on how to take it--I previously never even considered it might be including Banite Sith. 

---

Kenobi bashes Gravid's skull in.  Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) 1289255181
Tybalt
Tybalt

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 6:22 pm
@DarthAnt66 No, he is saying it refers to Bane and Zannah, who are Banite Sith. There's no way to argue that Zannah is a pre-Banite Sith, and if you take it to not mean Banite Sith then do you believe it means every Sith in history?
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) Empty Re: Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

on January 9th 2021, 6:50 pm
@Tybalt: I read his argument to mean all Sith prior to their disappearance, which would include Bane and Zannah despite being Banites as they fought Jedi in DB:ROT. Perhaps he can better clarify his meaning, though.  Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW) 1289255181

and if you take it to not mean Banite Sith then do you believe it means every Sith in history?

My thought process was: the Sith exist -> the Sith are believed extinct -> Maul is proof the Sith are back and deadlier than ever. The "back" and "ever" there seem in reference to how they were prior to being "believed extinct." Including the Banites might be a little weird--it would mean the narrator is both emphasizing the limited perspective that the Sith were "believed extinct" and that Maul is "proof" they are "back" while nevertheless also sharing omniscient knowledge to conclude Maul's display is "proof" he's better than all the hidden Sith, too. It's possible, but it seems a bit convoluted. So, I was applying it to all the ancient Sith (as of 1999) but not necessarily the Banites. Note I have Maul above all the Banites besides Palpatine and maybe Plagueis anyway, though, so for me the distinction isn't that relevant.
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