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Vaelias
Vaelias

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 7:47 am
@VictreebelVictr wrote:If HoC>RoTS Sheev, Drallig is effed.

HoC isnt > ROTS Sheev
he is locked below Yoda, Drallig is too but as I explained in my first post we have no reason to believe he couldn't replicate HoCs feats based off his showing with KF
Vaelias
Vaelias

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 7:49 am
@Tybalt wrote:@Vaelias

if your saying Yoda didn't grow you are basically saying Dooku > Sidious which is demonstrably false.

Yoda was holding back and only fought defensively in AotC.

Ok your missing the point, I'm not disputing that, I'm saying he's still stronger, you are attempting to downplay Sidious cos he wasn't as strong before Order 66, that's like saying post boost TPM Sidious is still the same strength as pre boost TPM Sidious, he's not cos he had a boost, its the exact same thing. Sidious grew in power and was more powerful than Yoda, regardless of how it happened, he still received a boost and he was still more powerful. its not exactly a temporary amp he received a permanent boost.

I'm not arguing that Yoda and Sidious are equals post-Order 66.

No he wasn't lol, Dooku and Yoda are confirmed to be Equals

Why even comment then lol im obvs referencing Sidious during their duel when talking about their duel haha
Tybalt
Tybalt

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 8:23 am
@Vaelias

No he wasn't lol, Dooku and Yoda are confirmed to be Equals

He wasn't fighting defensively?

Well, the film disagrees with you, and it is the highest form of canon.



Why even comment then lol im obvs referencing Sidious during their duel when talking about their duel haha

Again, I have not asserted otherwise.

I am only disputing your initial claim that "both of those [TCW Yoda and RotS Sidious] are inferior to KF Vader".

Every time I have disproved that you have changed your argument.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 9:27 am
@Tybalt wrote:@Vaelias

No he wasn't lol, Dooku and Yoda are confirmed to be Equals

He wasn't fighting defensively?

Well, the film disagrees with you, and it is the highest form of canon.



Why even comment then lol im obvs referencing Sidious during their duel when talking about their duel haha

Again, I have not asserted otherwise.

I am only disputing your initial claim that "both of those [TCW Yoda and RotS Sidious] are inferior to KF Vader".

Every time I have disproved that you have changed your argument.

They are both confirmed to be equals in force power by Lucas that is why they resort to sabers in which Yoda has the slight edge.

What? i never even mentioned TCW Yoda in my initial argument that was you, You claim he didn't grow yet, he obviously did seeing as he should be weaker than his AOTC iteration if he didn't yet was still near equals with ROTS Sidious.

when Sidious is beaten by HoC he basically concedes inferiority to KFV

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Sidiou10

KF> Sidious > Yoda

I haven't seen you disprove that in any way you just went of on a tangent about Sidious only being stronger cos of his boost, which no one refuted and is obvious

HellfireUnit
HellfireUnit
Level Six
Level Six

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 9:40 am
Drallig wins because there is no such character as Hero of Coruscant
Vaelias
Vaelias

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 9:56 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:Drallig wins because there is no such character as Hero of Coruscant

That's Gay
Tybalt
Tybalt

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 10:06 am
@Vaelias

They are both confirmed to be equals in force power by Lucas that is why they resort to sabers in which Yoda has the slight edge.

They are equal in that Dooku's Force attacks do not outmatch Yoda's Force defence. Yoda never went on the offensive with the Force.

George Lucas's statement in no way contradicts what we see in the film.

What? i never even mentioned TCW Yoda in my initial argument that was you,

My statement: "The Hero of Coruscant defeats TCW Yoda and RotS Sidious".

Your initial argument: "both of those are inferior to KF".

Since I specifically said those two then your rebuttal was about those two.

You claim he didn't grow yet, he obviously did seeing as he should be weaker than his AOTC iteration if he didn't yet was still near equals with ROTS Sidious.

This is patently not true.

Yoda: Dark Rendezvous takes place two and a half years into the Clone Wars.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Yoda:_Dark_Rendezvous#Plot_summary

This is before Yoda met the Force Priestesses in the penultimate episode of TCW S6.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Destiny_(episode)#Plot_summary

As Yoda has not yet met the Force Priestesses, you have no argument for him growing since AotC, while this is a late-TCW Dooku, who has experienced major growth since AotC.

Note also that Yoda: Dark Rendezvous takes place on Vjun, a dark side nexus.

Count Dooku sat at the desk in his study, pretending to read the day's dispatches from the Clone Wars, but actually listening to the ceaseless Vjun rain tick-spattering against the windows behind him. Listening, too, with a sense other than hearing. Yoda was close by. He was moving carefully, quietly, hiding his presence in the Force; riding on its back like a leaf whirled gently down a stream. But on Vjun, the Force was bent mightily to the dark side, and every now and then the Master opposed its current. It was these moments Dooku was listening for.

Once, several minutes ago, the old Jedi had misstepped, putting a foot against the current, and the shock of it had rumbled through the very bedrock beneath Chateau Malreaux, announcing the Master's coming like a distant groundquake. Or maybe it hadn't been a mistake. Maybe Yoda wanted Dooku to know he was on his way. Since then the world had been silent. The old Jedi was moving like a water-skeeter over the surface of the Force, with nothing to herald his coming but a faint sensation of heat on Dooku's skin, as if he were a blind man at sunrise, the dawn invisible to him but for a pale, spreading warmth.

Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

This means that Dooku is amped and Yoda is hindered.

Any unusual localization, or vergence, of dark side Force energy. These strange locales emanated the dark side of the Force, and were considered focal points of power for dark side users. As such they were often guarded by Jedi Knights to prevent their discovery and exploitation. Known dark side nexuses included the twisted tree-cave on Dagobah, Halagad Ventor’s hermitage on Trinta, and a “stain” of dark side energy that hovered over Endor following the defeat of the Emperor.

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

"Is there such a thing as too much power?" Dooku mused. "For instance," he continued carefully, "there was a day when your power was clearly greater than mine. Today, howevec I have waxed as you have waned. You stand in my citadel. I have at my command servants and droids and great powers of my own that I think would overwhelm even you. It is possible that at a single word, I could have you killed. And without you, how long would those dear to you last? I could have them, one by one: Mace and Iron Hand, Obi-Wan and precious young Skywalker, too. Surely you would feel safer if this were not so."

Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Despite all of this, Yoda is still demonstrably superior to him.

"Then their blades clashed together in a lace of fire, green and red: but the green burned hotter. Slowly, slowly, Dooku gave way: and in the dark, drunken Vjun air, Yoda was terrible to behold.

"Yes," Dooku whispered. "Feel me. Feel the treason. All those years of teaching me, raising me. Trusting me. And here am I, the favored son, butchering your precious Jedi, one by one. Hate me Yoda. You know you want to. "

Count Dooku lashed out with his lightsaber. Yoda took a quick step back and felt the heat of the red blade as it sliced the air centimeters from his tunic. He jumped, spun, and struck at Dooku's back before he landed. Dooku turned aside at the last moment, whipping his blade across the space where Yoda was seconds earlier. Facing each other again, their blades met, clashed, froze.

"Cunning, are you," Yoda said, breathing hard.

"I've had excellent teachers," Dooku said.

Yoda dropped and rolled to the side, his lightsaber blazing, reaching for Dooku's ankles. Dooku leapt up and flipped backwards landing lightly to face Yoda squarely. On his feet again, Yoda whirled and struck at Dooku, his green blade meeting Dooku's and pushing him back. Dooku attacked with reckless abandon fueled with hatred. Their blades hummed together, hissing and sparking. Dooku brought his blade down toward the diminutive Jedi Master and Yoda parried, locking his blade against Dooku's. Yoda breathed, calming himself.

"And yet, even here on Vjun, where the dark side whispers and whispers to me... love you enough to destroy you I do."

Pushing Dooku back yet again, blades flashed and flared stutters of light, blood red and sea green. Sweat ran in streams through Dooku's beard as he countered Yoda's every move, and his lips were white. Holobattles raged around them as the consoles showed Obi-Wan and Anakin clashing with wave after wave of battle droids. Dooku shot a quick glance at the red button on his desk and, with a Force push, he punched it in. Yoda cocked his head.

"A choice made, have you, Count?"

"I notice I am no longer your apprentice," Dooku said between breaths. "There was always a chance you could overpower me, of course."

Yoda attacked: Dooku parried.

"So I put a missile in high orbit, slaved to this location. It's falling now. Gathering speed."

Dooku stepped warily back to the open window casement.

"Can you feel it dropping? A thorn, a needle, an arrow. Faster all the time." He paused to get his breath. "Obi-Wan and your precious Skywalker and your little Padawans will be wiped out when the missile hits. So what you need to decide is, what means more to you, Master Yoda? Saving their lives-or taking mine?"

And with that he leapt backward, out the window. Yoda bounded after him. In the dark Vjun air it was all he could do not to leap after Dooku, to fall on him like a green thunderbolt and annihilate him utterly.... But already he could feel the missile, too, dropping in a red scream through the atmosphere, two hundred armored kilos of explosive aimed for Chateau Malreaux.

With a snort, Yoda turned his eyes to the sky and picked out the glowing dot racing in from the horizon. Below him, Dooku landed softly on the ground and melted into the rose gardens. The missile was coming in with terrible speed and power: too much coming at Yoda too fast ever to wholly stop it, even if he had time and perfect peace. But he reached out to pull up the Force binding even Vjun's bitter green moss and twisted thorn-trees, and let it flow through him like a wind: the breath of a world, gathered and released in a push-feather game with all their lives on the line, not to oppose the missile's force with force, but to touch it gently on the side-just enough to send it screaming by the broken window casement to plunge a kilometer offshore into the cold and waiting sea. A long instant later, water fountained from the ocean in a blaze of light three hundred meters tall, and then fell back. The chateau and all those inside it had been spared: but Dooku was gone.

Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

when Sidious is beaten by HoC he basically concedes inferiority to KFV

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Sidiou10

The game is a C-Canon source. It does not override G-Canon, and no G-Canon source has him making the same concession.

KF> Sidious > Yoda

Not according to G-Canon, which has KF Vader and RotS Sidious as equals, and again, I have not disputed that Sidious surpasses Yoda after Order 66 is enacted.

I haven't seen you disprove that in any way you just went of on a tangent about Sidious only being stronger cos of his boost, which no one refuted and is obvious

That's because you are not reading my posts.

If no one has refuted it then why do you keep making it a central point of your argument?
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 10:12 am
@HellfireUnit wrote:
Drallig wins because there is no such character as Hero of Coruscant

@Vaelias wrote:That's Gay


Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 815462187

Vaelias
Vaelias

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 10:33 am
They are equal in that Dooku's Force attacks do not outmatch Yoda's Force defence. Yoda never went on the offensive with the Force.

sounds like head canon to me, never alluded to, only that they r equal in force and not in sabers

My statement: "The Hero of Coruscant defeats TCW Yoda and RotS Sidious".

Your initial argument: "both of those are inferior to KF".

Since I specifically said those two then your rebuttal was about those two.

Well Yeh, obviously KF is superior to TCW Yoda, and it looks likely KF is at least a tiny bit more powerful than Sidious, He is definitely the better duelist, what is your point, they are both inferior to KF lol and ROTS Yoda is superior to TCW Yoda given his contending with Sidious, or at the very least is digging deeper into his reserves and going all out which makes him stronger than he usually would be

This means that Dooku is amped and Yoda is hindered.

no it doesnt, Yoda was also Amped by Vjun

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Bb9b5110
Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 53d91e10

Yoda is the superior swordsman, thats the only edge he has on Dooku, DR Dooku and Yoda are still equals at base

Not according to G-Canon, which has KF Vader and RotS Sidious as equals, and again, I have not disputed that Sidious surpasses Yoda after Order 66 is enacted.

it also has Yoda and Dooku as equals but you keep trying to dispute that with fan theories lol
and i know you havnt but you did attempt to downplay Sidious by saying he was only stronger cos of order 66, its irrelevant how he got stronger, point is, he is stronger
also it was Lucas' intention to have Yoda be 'defeated'
Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Yoda_d10




Tybalt
Tybalt

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 10:59 am
@Vaelias

sounds like head canon to me, never alluded to, only that they r equal in force and not in sabers

No, just a logical understanding of the G-Canon sources.

Please point out the contradiction if you feel there is one.

Well Yeh, obviously KF is superior to TCW Yoda, and it looks likely KF is at least a tiny bit more powerful than Sidious,

Now this? This is headcanon.

He is definitely the better duelist, what is your point, they are both inferior to KF lol

You have not backed up this claim once.

and ROTS Yoda is superior to TCW Yoda given his contending with Sidious, or at the very least is digging deeper into his reserves and going all out which makes him stronger than he usually would be

This has been my argument all along. Thank you for finally conceding this point.

The debate is now over, as that was my argument: The difference between AotC Yoda and RotS Yoda is that in RotS he is no longer holding back.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 11:19 am
If that was your argument all along you didn't go about it very well, well no there's a difference between Yoda holding back and not digging into his reserves, he wasn't exactly holding back against Dooku but when he was fighting Sidious he was giving it everything he had, past his normal abilities. regardless he is still = to Dooku, and he still grew up to episode 3, Sidious was growing daily, there is no way he would be equal to him if he didn't grow

dunno why u had to go on a tangent about TCW Yoda and Sidious and Order 66 lol
Tybalt
Tybalt

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 11:26 am
I clearly stated it in my initial post and provided numerous sources in the subsequent posts including Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, where Yoda is superior to late TCW-Dooku despite not meeting the Force Priestesses yet.

It was your arguments that were not clear. It was you who failed to back up your initial claim. Heck, one of your central arguments was something I wasn't even disputing.
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 11:48 am
@Vaelias wrote:If that was your argument all along you didn't go about it very well, well no there's a difference between Yoda holding back and not digging into his reserves, he wasn't exactly holding back against Dooku but when he was fighting Sidious he was giving it everything he had, past his normal abilities. regardless he is still = to Dooku, and he still grew up to episode 3, Sidious was growing daily, there is no way he would be equal to him if he didn't grow

dunno why u had to go on a tangent about TCW Yoda and Sidious and Order 66 lol
Yeah, because catching and throwing projectiles softly to the side isn't holding back. Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 3344068304
Vaelias
Vaelias

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 3:01 pm
@Tybalt wrote:I clearly stated it in my initial post and provided numerous sources in the subsequent posts including Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, where Yoda is superior to late TCW-Dooku despite not meeting the Force Priestesses yet.

It was your arguments that were not clear. It was you who failed to back up your initial claim. Heck, one of your central arguments was something I wasn't even disputing.

Yes and I debunked that for you, you claimed Yoda was hindered but he was amped, Yoda's amp will have made him faster, even though he was already faster than Dooku. hardly power superiority.

Why comment on my initial argument if you weren't disputing it lol
Vaelias
Vaelias

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 3:03 pm
@VictreebelVictr wrote:
@Vaelias wrote:If that was your argument all along you didn't go about it very well, well no there's a difference between Yoda holding back and not digging into his reserves, he wasn't exactly holding back against Dooku but when he was fighting Sidious he was giving it everything he had, past his normal abilities. regardless he is still = to Dooku, and he still grew up to episode 3, Sidious was growing daily, there is no way he would be equal to him if he didn't grow

dunno why u had to go on a tangent about TCW Yoda and Sidious and Order 66 lol
Yeah, because catching and throwing projectiles softly to the side isn't holding back. Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 3344068304

its not, it was because they both knew it was pointless, listen to Lucas' Blu-ray Commentary
Tybalt
Tybalt

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 3:04 pm
@Vaelias

Yes and I debunked that for you, you claimed Yoda was hindered but he was amped, Yoda's amp will have made him faster, even though he was already faster than Dooku. hardly power superiority.

That's irrelevant. You conceded the point.

Why comment on my initial argument if you weren't disputing it lol

You were the one that kept bringing it up.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 3:10 pm
@Tybalt wrote:@Vaelias

Yes and I debunked that for you, you claimed Yoda was hindered but he was amped, Yoda's amp will have made him faster, even though he was already faster than Dooku. hardly power superiority.

No, you didn't. You conceded the point.

Why comment on my initial argument if you weren't disputing it lol

You were the one that kept bringing it up.

What r u even talking about, cos you brought up a bunch of random shit that wasn't even necessary

KFV Yoda and Sheev are all near equals but with implications of superiority for KF Sidious literally says "lord Vader will become more powerful than either of us" then seems to concede inferiority to Vader which could only be referring to dueling for all we know, on top of that Sidious has numerous statements putting him > Yoda, there are also equal quotes for all of them so we can conclude that the edges they all have would be small, Drallig is = to Yoda and so is HoC but Dralligs performance against Vader was better therefor we can conclude that Drallig would be the likely Victor

You were the one changing the subject lol
Tybalt
Tybalt

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 3:12 pm
@Vaelias

What r u even talking about, cos you brought up a bunch of random shit that wasn't even necessary

KFV Yoda and Sheev are all near equals but with implications of superiority for KF Sidious literally says "lord Vader will become more powerful than either of us" then seems to concede inferiority to Vader which could only be referring to dueling for all we know, on top of that Sidious has numerous statements putting him > Yoda, there are also equal quotes for all of them so we can conclude that the edges they all have would be small, Drallig is = to Yoda and so is HoC but Dralligs performance against Vader was better therefor we can conclude that Drallig would be the likely Victor

You were the one changing the subject lol

You lost the debate.

Stop embarrassing yourself further.
Vaelias
Vaelias

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 5:06 pm
@Tybalt wrote:@Vaelias

What r u even talking about, cos you brought up a bunch of random shit that wasn't even necessary

KFV Yoda and Sheev are all near equals but with implications of superiority for KF Sidious literally says "lord Vader will become more powerful than either of us" then seems to concede inferiority to Vader which could only be referring to dueling for all we know, on top of that Sidious has numerous statements putting him > Yoda, there are also equal quotes for all of them so we can conclude that the edges they all have would be small, Drallig is = to Yoda and so is HoC but Dralligs performance against Vader was better therefor we can conclude that Drallig would be the likely Victor

You were the one changing the subject lol

You lost the debate.

Stop embarrassing yourself further.

HAHAHAHA what r u even on about mate, derailed the entire debate and then claimed Yoda was hindered on Vjun LOL
how am I embarrassing myself at all by bringing it back on topic Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 815462187
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 6:07 pm
@Tybalt wrote:You lost the debate.

Stop embarrassing yourself further.
I appreciate your time on this website, but you would be more respected if you try to act a bit more polite. Thanks. Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 1289255181
Tybalt
Tybalt

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 6:10 pm
@VictreebelVictr

I appreciate your time on this website, but you would be more respected if you try to act a bit more polite. Thanks. Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 1289255181

I was being polite. He lost the debate and is refusing to let it go. Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 1289255181
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 6:18 pm
@Tybalt
If you believe that he lost and you won then stop responding.

Telling someone to stop embarrassing themself comes across as rude, and is overall just not mature. Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 1220391476
Tybalt
Tybalt

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 6:25 pm
@VictreebelVictr

If you believe that he lost and you won then stop responding.

He literally conceded the argument.

Telling someone to stop embarrassing themself comes across as rude, and is overall just not mature. Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 1220391476

It's actually not rude in debating terms, and this is a debating forum.

Also, why do you keep quoting me to tell me I'm rude? That's both rude itself, and immature to keep doing it. Please stop.
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
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Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 6:46 pm
Let's move back on topic. The Hero of Coruscant wouldn't want to see the only fan group who knows about his existence fighting on his threads.  Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 1306544554
VictreebelVictr
VictreebelVictr

Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 Empty Re: Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig

on January 7th 2021, 6:47 pm
Hero of Coruscant vs Cin Drallig - Page 2 815462187

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