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The Slick Obi
The Slick Obi

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 14th 2020, 5:42 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Okay, now that the Obi-Wan series has been re-revealed, we now know that Vader & Obi-Wan will fight in it. Obviously Obi doesn't die or get seriously injured (by that I mean maimed). So does that mean that, 10 years after RotS, Obi actually got STRONGER. Because almost every piece of nuCanon media points to Vader being stronger in the suit than out. They are even calling it the, "rematch of the century", which means that it won't be a simple exchange.
RedGuard1an
RedGuard1an

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 14th 2020, 6:00 pm
Maybe it could just be a vision similarly to Anakin and Yoda vs Dooku and Palps in TCW season 6.
The Slick Obi
The Slick Obi

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 14th 2020, 6:08 pm
[quote="KingKopecz"]Maybe it could just be a vision similarly to Anakin and Yoda vs Dooku and Palps in TCW season 6.[/quote
Hmmmm, good point Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH 1668617588 ]
Galan007
Galan007

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 14th 2020, 9:21 pm
Message reputation : 100% (6 votes)
If they actually fight one another in this show, it would cheapen their confrontation in ANH tremendously for me. Moreover, Vader's dialogue(ie. "When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the Master") becomes completely nonsensical. It would also retcon other canon supplementary material(like From A Certain POV and various guidebooks), which state that Vader and Kenobi only fought twice: during RotS and during ANH. So hopefully the "rematch of the century" blurb is just a red herring to help hype the show, and not literal.

Or like @KingKopecz mentioned: the "rematch" could refer to Kenobi/Vader engaging in a battle of wits from afar, and/or some sort of 'meta' confrontation... Which I'd be okay with.
NevesYtneves
NevesYtneves
Level Seven
Level Seven

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 15th 2020, 5:16 am
@Galan007 wrote:If they actually fight one another in this show, it would cheapen their confrontation in ANH tremendously for me. Moreover, Vader's dialogue (ie. "When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the Master") becomes completely nonsensical. It would also retcon other canon supplementary material (like From A Certain POV and various guidebooks), which state that Vader and Kenobi only fought twice: during RotS and during ANH. So hopefully the "rematch of the century" blurb is just a red herring to help hype the show, and not literal.

Or like @KingKopecz mentioned: the "rematch" could refer to Kenobi/Vader engaging in a battle of wits from afar, and/or some sort of 'meta' confrontation... Which I'd be okay with.

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH 1289255181
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 21st 2020, 5:32 pm
What Galen said. We've already had pointless fights introduced between films such as Anakin VS Dooku and Kenobi VS Grievous.
Mysteryman06
Mysteryman06

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 21st 2020, 5:50 pm
@Galan007 wrote:If they actually fight one another in this show, it would cheapen their confrontation in ANH tremendously for me. Moreover, Vader's dialogue(ie. "When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the Master") becomes completely nonsensical. It would also retcon other canon supplementary material(like From A Certain POV and various guidebooks), which state that Vader and Kenobi only fought twice: during RotS and during ANH. So hopefully the "rematch of the century" blurb is just a red herring to help hype the show, and not literal.

Or like @KingKopecz mentioned: the "rematch" could refer to Kenobi/Vader engaging in a battle of wits from afar, and/or some sort of 'meta' confrontation... Which I'd be okay with.

The supplementary material have the potential of getting retconned. Even the Lucasfilm Story Group thinks we shouldn't take those as 100% canon
Galan007
Galan007

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 21st 2020, 7:07 pm
@Mysteryman06 wrote:The supplementary material have the potential of getting retconned. Even the Lucasfilm Story Group thinks we shouldn't take those as 100% canon
Of course. Retcons are a natural corollary in a system where all material is on equal footing in terms of canonicity.

My point was simply that in this particular case, retconning continuity in such a way that Kenobi/Vader have an additional fight in between RotS and ANH is wholly unneeded, and actually cheapens the build-up to their confrontation in ANH(and also renders some of the dialogue in the film itself obsolete and nonsensical.) It obviously can happen, but should it happen is the bigger question... /shrug

Gonna be honest here: I take statements/Tweets from the Storygroup with a grain of salt. They contradict themselves all the time, and often don't even seem to have a full grasp of what's going on within the franchise(Matt Martin is a perfect example.) Afaik, Disney's official stance is that all officially licensed/published material is canon, and there are no "canonical tiers" within the new system.
Zenwolf
Zenwolf
Level One
Level One

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 21st 2020, 11:14 pm
@Galan007 wrote:
@Mysteryman06 wrote:The supplementary material have the potential of getting retconned. Even the Lucasfilm Story Group thinks we shouldn't take those as 100% canon
Of course. Retcons are a natural corollary in a system where all material is on equal footing in terms of canonicity.

My point was simply that in this particular case, retconning continuity in such a way that Kenobi/Vader have an additional fight in between RotS and ANH is wholly unneeded, and actually cheapens the build-up to their confrontation in ANH(and also renders some of the dialogue in the film itself obsolete and nonsensical.) It obviously can happen, but should it happen is the bigger question... /shrug

Gonna be honest here: I take statements/Tweets from the Storygroup with a grain of salt. They contradict themselves all the time, and often don't even seem to have a full grasp of what's going on within the franchise(Matt Martin is a perfect example.) Afaik, Disney's official stance is that all officially licensed/published material is canon, and there are no "canonical tiers" within the new system.

I mean, is it any different than Anakin fighting Dooku for the thousand time before ROTS? Honestly I didn't really see the need for them to fight until ROTS anyway, yet here we are with TCW(which yes, I know it was a thing before Disney, but still the point remains). Plus RO already rendered ANH dialogue as obsolete and nonsensical, so what's one more thing eh?
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 22nd 2020, 10:18 am
Is it really Disney Canon without pointless fanservice and soft retcons?
Mysteryman06
Mysteryman06

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 22nd 2020, 4:59 pm
^ The EU was like this as well
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 23rd 2020, 6:18 am
@Mysteryman06 wrote:^ The EU was like this as well

Never said it wasn't, but Disney Canon is unable to go 5 minutes without bringing back a fan-favourite character.
Mysteryman06
Mysteryman06

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 23rd 2020, 7:39 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:
@Mysteryman06 wrote:^ The EU was like this as well

Never said it wasn't, but Disney Canon is unable to go 5 minutes without bringing back a fan-favourite character.

I agree
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 24th 2020, 8:54 pm
@BreakofDawn wrote:
Never said it wasn't, but Disney Canon is unable to go 5 minutes without bringing back a fan-favourite character.

Especially even bringing in things like time travel to save someone like Ahsoka. Wasn't it Filoni that said that despite her being a "Force ghost voice' in TROS she may still be alive? They really need to chill out with Ahsoka.
Meatpants
Meatpants
Moderator | Champion of Darkness
Moderator | Champion of Darkness

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 25th 2020, 8:53 am
Or we could just chill out because Canon is horrible. They're digging the grave.
The lord of hunger
The lord of hunger
Level Two
Level Two

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 25th 2020, 10:10 am
Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH 39523600
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 25th 2020, 7:11 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Meatpants wrote:Or we could just chill out because Canon is horrible. They're digging the grave.

That too.
Galan007
Galan007

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 26th 2020, 8:56 am
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:Wasn't it Filoni that said that despite her being a "Force ghost voice' in TROS she may still be alive? They really need to chill out with Ahsoka.
Yeah, Filoni originally said that just because Ahsoka's voice spoke to Rey in RoS, it doesn't mean she was dead:
"I have to wonder with Star Wars fans," Filoni added. "They seem to watch the movies but they don't take all the lessons. They deal a lot in absolutes, which is very much a Sith thing. I remember in The Empire Strikes Back Luke speaking out through the force to Leia. Vader also does this at the end of Empire Strikes Back. There's no absoluteness that these people are dead. I mean, some of them we know are dead."

And then the RoS novelization stated that some of the voices that contacted Rey were still anchored to the living:
Presences filled her awareness, some recent, some ancient, some still anchored to the living in a strange way. Rey didn't understand. But she accepted.

So yeah, I'm sure Ahsoka is still alive as of RoS.
TheNuisanceBird
TheNuisanceBird

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 29th 2020, 6:58 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@Galan007 wrote:So yeah, I'm sure Ahsoka is still alive as of RoS.

Fuck.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 30th 2020, 1:05 pm
@TheNuisanceBird wrote:
@Galan007 wrote:So yeah, I'm sure Ahsoka is still alive as of RoS.

Fuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oTSNECLvhY
The Found
The Found

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 30th 2020, 3:17 pm
Killing Maul off in an episode of Rebels when this project was in the pipeline is yet another grand misfire on the part of nucanon.
Zenwolf
Zenwolf
Level One
Level One

Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

December 30th 2020, 4:15 pm
@The Found wrote:Killing Maul off in an episode of Rebels when this project was in the pipeline is yet another grand misfire on the part of nucanon.

I don't really get why they brought Maul back even in the 1st place. I mean other than fan service, Savage could have easily filled the role as a villain with Ventress and Dooku, tacking on Maul....I dunno. Savage could have still worked as his brother and going on the path to avenge the death of his brother at the hands of Obi-Wan, so right there is the hook. Being a new character as well opens up a lot more possibilities, I feel like Savage was kinda wasted since he was playing second fiddle to his brother.
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Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH Empty Re: Thought I had on Vader and Obi-Wan fighting before ANH

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