Top 10 lightsaber Duelists

Sith Archivist wrote:

Thij wrote:
The only evidence for Kasi'm being the best duelist as of his time comes from bane's inflated opinion. Don't see any reason Kasi'm should be superior to malak, malgus, etc.

Kas'im being the best duelist of his time comes from the omniscient narrator. It's not Bane's opinion.

Sith Archivist wrote:

Seturna wrote:1. Depa Billaba
2. Lucien Draay
3. Scout
4. Whie
5. Kas’im
6. Exar Kun
7. Shaak Ti
8. Agen Kolar
9. Saesee Tiin
10. Starkiller

Terrible list

DarthAnt66 wrote:
@Sith Archivist: Most Star Wars novels, including the Bane Trilogy, don't really have an omniscient narrator. It's all in close third / third-person limited.

 The second odd assumption you have to make to think Bane destroyed Zannah is to assume that you are dealing with an unreliable narrator. Once Zannah identifies herself, I refer to her as “her” and “Zannah” throughout the scene. To believe Bane took over, you have to assume that I am intentionally misleading you throughout that scene for a cheap GOTCHA moment at the end. But I’ve never done that in any of the previous Bane novels. The narrator has always played fair with the reader, and I think it would be unfair to suddenly change that in the last few pages of a trilogy. Unfortunately, “twist” endings have become so prevalent recently that I think people assume narrators are unreliable now by default; the narrative paradigm has been flipped on its head. (I blame M. Night Shyamalan.)
I realize this is my fault, of course. My writing is usually very straight ahead; I tend to eschew ambiguity because it leads to misinterpretation. I am usually very explicit about my characters and my authorial intent.

Geistalt wrote:LUL this forum now has not one, but 3 Kun wankers

Vaelias wrote:

Geistalt wrote:LUL this forum now has not one, but 3 Kun wankers

Simply look at how he scales to ROTJ Sidious level

If you deny Kun as one of the top 5 sith you Don’t know enough about him

DarthAnt66 wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

Geistalt wrote:LUL this forum now has not one, but 3 Kun wankers

Simply look at how he scales to ROTJ Sidious level

If you deny Kun as one of the top 5 sith you Don’t know enough about him

DarthAnt66 wrote:The non-canon one from the early 1990s? ;) 

Note that Malak aside, ROTS Palpatine and Anakin are bound above Kun, and ROTJ Palpatine is infinitely more powerful than them.

DarthAnt66 wrote:I have little doubt that Kun was intended in the 1990s to be comparable to ROTJ Palpatine. A lot of in-universe and author statements attest to that. After all, he was the only prominent major dark side baddie besides Palpatine around. However, with the prequel trilogy, KOTOR, and SWTOR, we see Kun's relative position continually drop. Multiple 1999 statements emphasize Palpatine and Maul are proof that the Sith are back and more powerful than ever. 2002 statements prop KOTOR's new dark side baddie above Kun with LFL's support. Infinite 2005-2014 statements label ROTS Palpatine as the most powerful Sith ever, meaning Kun couldn't even lick ROTJ Palpatine's shoes. 2012-2014 statements hail Vitiate as the most powerful dark sider ever per the SWTOR characters and sourcebooks. Meanwhile, again, all of Kun's big supremacy quotes are from decades past and long retconned, and most (like the French quote you're thinking about) were never recognized as binding canon anyway. 

Also, you can read most of ROTS Palpatine's supremacy quotes in this thread: 

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t3778-top-fifteen-most-powerful-star-wars-characters-ultimate-source-compendium

Kun scales over the likes of ROTJ Sidious in power

And why would Bane not be here, he’s fast to the point where he can dodge rain, applying that into combat he’s likely faster than Sidious who relies entirely on force speed in combat.

Master Azronger wrote:@Vaelias

Kun scales over the likes of ROTJ Sidious in power

If you're applying Jedi Academy feats and accolades to living Kun from Tales of the Jedi, that doesn't work because Kun became more powerful after consuming the Massassi race, but he remained a spirit that was unable to exist without an anchor.

Master Azronger wrote:@Vaelias

Kun scales over the likes of ROTJ Sidious in power

Citation needed. If you're referring to the French quote, it may not even necessarily refer to power, and even TPM Sidious has at least three statements solidifying his position as the most powerful Sith Lord to have ever existed. This number is only redoubled by his later incarnations.

If you're applying Jedi Academy feats and accolades to living Kun from Tales of the Jedi, that doesn't work because Kun became more powerful after consuming the Massassi race, but he remained a spirit that was unable to exist without an anchor. We're looking at these characters on neutral ground without nexuses, so spirit Kun would simply dissipate on the spot and lose a duel even to an untrained youngling.

And why would Bane not be here, he’s fast to the point where he can dodge rain, applying that into combat he’s likely faster than Sidious who relies entirely on force speed in combat.

He didn't dodge rain; he formed a shield out of his lightsaber by spinning it quick enough to remain dry for ten minutes - an impressive feat, but it's baseless to conclude it'd place him beyond Sidious who has exorbitantly more Force reserves to draw on, and is therefore capable of outputting exorbitantly more power than Bane. Not to mention, moving faster than the a hyper-perceptive Force-sensitive's eye or Force perceptions can follow is likely a superior feat to blocking rain - the speed to accomplish that is much greater - and Sidious has done that as early as TPM to Maul.

Vaelias wrote:Yes I’m referring to the French quote I have also checked it myself I have a mate who speaks fluent French and his confirmed it and then my other mate knows some actual French dude and he also confirmed it said the same thing, obviously Sidious as of ROTS Is the most powerful Sith ever, but that quote pushes Kun to second place and then Vitiates supremacy quotes put him just above Kun meaning that a top 4 sith would be
Sheev
Vader (parity with sheev)
Vitiate
Kun

When it comes to dueling tho Sidious never even trained the full time with Maul, who did most of his training with bots, and then maul nearly bested him in a spar anyway, yes he was taunted but goes to show Sidious being out of practice does show, he may have mastered all forms but he never practices with it an it shows in his spar with maul when he was almost overwhelmed, plus he relies too heavily on his insane force speed augmentation, and doesn’t even have much technical skill

Also may I see those quotes from TPM implying Sidious may be the most powerful by that point

Master Azronger wrote:

Vaelias wrote:Yes I’m referring to the French quote I have also checked it myself I have a mate who speaks fluent French and his confirmed it and then my other mate knows some actual French dude and he also confirmed it said the same thing, obviously Sidious as of ROTS Is the most powerful Sith ever, but that quote pushes Kun to second place and then Vitiates supremacy quotes put him just above Kun meaning that a top 4 sith would be
Sheev
Vader (parity with sheev)
Vitiate
Kun

I've seen others claim it doesn't refer to power; I'd need the testimony of a vast majority of French speakers saying the most straightforward interpretation would be that it's referring to Force power, which I don't buy at the moment. Regardless, Kun is not only bound beneath Vitiate and TPM Sidious by a greater quantity of evidence, he is also hardcapped below Malak by a more recent, less ambiguous accolade.

When it comes to dueling tho Sidious never even trained the full time with Maul, who did most of his training with bots, and then maul nearly bested him in a spar anyway, yes he was taunted but goes to show Sidious being out of practice does show, he may have mastered all forms but he never practices with it an it shows in his spar with maul when he was almost overwhelmed, plus he relies too heavily on his insane force speed augmentation, and doesn’t even have much technical skill

Sidious did spar with Maul many times, instructing him with the lightsaber as well as multiple hand-to-hand martial arts. He also sparred with Plagueis, and after TPM - when he would have had even less time to train given his newfound duties as Supreme Chancellor - he was still skilled enough to teach Dooku new things with the blade, so he definitely wasn't "out of practice" or whatever you mean by that.

But regardless, I don't get this logic. So Sidious is bad because Maul nearly bested him once (for the record, Maul himself noted that Sidious had barely tapped into his reserves so he may not have been going all-out)? Why doesn't that just make Maul good? Sidious is a level 9 duelist by ROTS, with Anakin and Yoda and above Dooku, so he definitely has technical skill in spades. Him relying on Force augmentation is literally what everyone else does too - I don't see why it would detract from his technical skill.

Anyway, I don't see what this has to do with Bane. He's clearly inferior to Sidious in every conceivable way by a vast margin. You didn't have a rebuttal to my point.

Also may I see those quotes from TPM implying Sidious may be the most powerful by that point

They're in the link Ant cited.