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Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered Empty Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered

on May 25th 2020, 5:43 am
Hello everyone,

I would like to address a discussion relating to when Sion and Nihilus betrayed Kreia (pre-Peragus events). As many of you know, many people believe that Nihilus and Sion were trying to kill Kreia and that Nihilus’s Force Drain simply failed to kill Kreia. I will be discussing what happened and provide a logical discussion then end it with a conclusion of what I think took place. Before anything, I kindly ask everyone to watch the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTCNiaKb4wY

Firstly, I would like to state that Nihilus’s Force Drain did not fail to kill Kreia. Force Drain works by feeding on someone else’s Force connection. Nihilus never intended to kill her when he used Force Drain. He simply used Force Drain to feed on her Force connection to the point where she could not call upon the force anymore (leaving her defenseless) but not to the point of completely severing her force connection (as that would have killed her). As you can see in the video, Nihilus Force Drains her (animation not shown) then uses TK to push her onto the wall. After that, Sion approaches Kreia and then she tries to use the force to get her lightsaber. I would like everyone to pay clear attention to the lightsaber as Kreia attempts to grab it. You can clearly see that the lightsaber begins to vibrate indicating that Kreia’s force connection has not been completely severed. This clearly would have alerted Nihilus (who is seen just standing there watching at the end of the video) that Kreia’s force connection has not been fully severed (and thus is not dead). Now after Sion beats up Kreia, why didn’t Nihilus just feed on Kreia’s last reserve of force connection (which would have killed her) and satisfy his hunger even more? He clearly knows at this point that Kreia still has a small degree of force connection left in her. Why not drain it all off and further satisfy his hunger? Another thing to consider is Sion’s ‘role’ in their betrayal. Nihilus dominates Kreia on his own, while Sion just watches, making it clear that Sion was not even needed in their betrayal. So what is Sion’s role here?

After all this, Sion and Kreia confront each other on Peragus later on. Consider the following part of the dialogue:

Sion: “After all that has happened, still you live. You are difficult to kill.”

Kreia: “For one as limited as you, perhaps. To have fallen…”

The dialogue makes it clear that the end result of Nihilus and Sion’s plan is Kreia’s death. However, it wasn’t Nihilus who was supposed to land the final blow as Kreia makes it clear in the above dialogue that she is difficult to kill for one as limited as Sion, indicating that Sion was supposed to finish her and not Nihilus. This is further backed by the previous analysis where Nihilus would have realized that Kreia’s force connection has not been completely severed and then he would have killed her right after had the plan been to just simply kill Kreia. This is further backed by Sion’s lack of role in their betrayal (since Nihilus doesn’t even need him). Sion is simply there because he despises Kreia and essentially wants to have his vengeance on her before she is dead. Sion is not needed here. As we all know, Kreia ends up losing the fight on Peragus and, with it, her left hand. Kreia at this point was at Sion’s mercy with Sion sparing her. Sion spares Kreia as he is extremely mad at her for trying to sacrifice herself for Surik when Surik is so much weaker than him (at this point) and so plans to destroy everything Kreia held dear, including Surik, in order to make Kreia suffer. This explains why Sion spared Kreia on Peragus despite the plan of attempting to kill her during his betrayal.

All of the above points explain what happened during Sion and Nihilus’s betrayal. It seems clear that Sion and Nihilus’s plan was to kill Kreia. The plan was for Nihilus to severe Kreia’s connection to the force (by feeding on it) to the point where she became defenseless as indicated by her inability to grab her lightsaber despite the lightsaber vibrating a bit due to the small force connection Kreia had left. After Kreia becomes defenseless, this is where Sion steps in and has his ‘own time’ with Kreia (beating her up and perhaps even raping her) explaining why he was even present there in the first place as Nihilus did not need him at all. Nihilus is just standing there and watching while Sion has his time with Kreia. The following quote supports this plan:

"He conspires with Darth Nihilus to strip her powers...

-SWKOTORCG (pg. 159)"

Another argument I have seen some people use is that Nihilus Force Drains Kreia off-screen (before the scene) as there is no Force Drain animation present in the scene. This, however, does not make sense as we can see Kreia enter the core to meditate and then followed by Sion and Nihilus indicating that the betrayal begins right then and there. It would not make any sense that Nihilus Force Drains Kreia first then the scene begins and they meet again in the core with Sion. A plausible explanation for why no animation is seen for Force Drain is due to the fact that the scene is actually cut-content (due to developers being pressured and not having enough time to finish the game completely) and so the Force Drain animation may not have been finished/added by that time. As such, no animation is seen.

The last argument I will consider and probably the most famous argument presented to argue that Nihilus was supposed to kill Kreia is when Sion mentions to Nihilus in cut-content:

Sion: “There is more. Darth Traya yet lives. You did not kill her, as you assumed.”

This may simply be due to Sion not wanting to admit his failure in killing Kreia and decides to put the blame on Nihilus instead. It was their plan to kill Kreia but Sion instead mentions “You did not kill her…” instead of “We did not kill her…” despite Sion beating her up after Nihilus drains her indicating he does not want to admit his failure. This even occurs after Sion spares Kreia on Peragus. This combined with the arguments and points made above make it clear that Sion is the one to finish Kreia off and not Nihilus, using his Force Drain firsthand.

Conclusion


Nihilus and Sion’s betrayal plan was intended to kill Kreia but with Sion landing the last blow after he has had his time with her. Nihilus Force Drains Kreia to the point where she becomes defenseless and then Sion steps in to have his own time with her as he despises her and wants to have his vengeance. After Sion is done, he was to land the final blow and kill her.
xolthol
xolthol
Champion of the Light
Champion of the Light

Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered Empty Re: Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered

on May 25th 2020, 8:23 am
While this is an interresting theory I think you are mistaken two different force power: Force Drain and Sever the Force. It didn't seems here at all that Nihlius used his Force drain (which didn't reduce the connection of someone to the force but rather feed on his link with te living force to kill). 
In addition to this you are claiming wrongly that being fully sever from the Force will kill a Force user. This is absolutely false: Nomi Sunrider sever Ulic Qel Droma from the Force but this didn't kill him.
Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered Empty Re: Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered

on May 25th 2020, 10:26 am
@xolthol I think you are mistaken about this. Nihilus could not have used Sever Force as this ability is strictly a light side force ability. This means Nihilus must have had to use his Force Drain to cut Kreia off. The reason Ulic did not die when he was blocked off the force by Nomi is mainly because she used Sever Force on him,which is a light side ability, and thus blocked (not fed on and drain off like Nihilus's Force drain does) his force connection by a 'wall of light' (Sever Force). That's the main difference. Nihilus basically kills/drains the force connection itself while Sever force simply blocks the force connection. The connection is still there but simply blocked.
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Two
Level Two

Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered Empty Re: Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered

on May 25th 2020, 11:06 am
Propaganda, the real Darth Nihilus can’t speak nor type in English. Who hired you?
xolthol
xolthol
Champion of the Light
Champion of the Light

Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered Empty Re: Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered

on May 25th 2020, 11:48 am
@|Darth Nihilus|
Can you provide me any clear proof that Nihilus Force Drain is cutting someone connection to the Force ? To my knowledge there isn't any (but maybe I'm wrong).

I acknowledge that indeed, severing the force with a wall of light is a jedi power. Nonetheless we have also DS users who have sever the force from other force users. For example, Valkorion sever his father Lord Dramath from the Force before imprisoning him:

Codex Entry: Lord Dramath wrote:That day, Tenebrae removed his father's connection to the Force and imprisoned him within a powerful holocron, leaving Dramath alone to wither slowly into madness over an eternity
Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered Empty Re: Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered

on May 25th 2020, 3:29 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@xolthol

"These Sith we face... they have learned how to do this. It is a technique that has been lost for some time, not seen in the days since the ancient Sith. They can use it to consume other Force Sensitives - and at the highest pinnacle of power, use it to consume anything that lives. They draw upon the connections in the Force, and devour it. That is why they are drawn to Jedi, why it is easy for them to find where they gather - because it is like the smell of blood to them. And they can draw upon the Jedi's own strength to kill them."
Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords




"As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords




"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords




"It is something the Sith, the assassins that stalk us, can do- it is of the dark side, the ability to feed on life, the Force, the closer one comes to it. It makes them stronger - for a time."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords




"Do not think of his power [Nihilus] as one would a weapon, or one of your warships of the Republic. It is terrible, but it is still a subtle thing. The sect of assassins that chase you feed on the Force... what he does is simply the pinnacle of what they could achieve, in time. And that is why they - and their techniques - must be wiped out. No one again must experience and learn what her master did."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
xolthol
xolthol
Champion of the Light
Champion of the Light

Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered Empty Re: Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered

on May 26th 2020, 12:44 pm
Interresting it seems indeed that you were right.
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Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered Empty Re: Did Darth Nihilus fail to drain Kreia? - Answered

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