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Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked Empty Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked

on June 23rd 2020, 3:34 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Hello everyone,

There have been many misconceptions regarding the Star Forge and it’s ‘Force Drain’ and ‘End of the Force’ similarity to Nihilus with some people claiming Revan and Malak would resist Nihilus’s drain based on the Star Forge. In this thread, I will be thoroughly going over the Star Forge and showing how completely incorrect and invalid this is.

Firstly, some people claim the Star Forge ‘Force Drains’ like Nihilus due to it life draining and being called ‘end of the Force’. The Star Forge is not described in draining the same way as Nihilus and they are not the same. Let’s put some evidence into perspective.

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"There is no one left with the power to control the Forge, though many have tried. I have watched them be devoured, their life drained from them as they attempt to tap into its power. Knowing what we do of the Builders and their fate, I'm convinced that Revan did not intend us to keep the Star Forge - to use it would mean the end of the Sith, the end of the Force."

―Bastila Shan (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords)


Drain life: A delicate procedure that saps the life energy of another and funnels it directly into your own essence. It is extremely difficult to employ in combat and is derived from the teachings of Zelashiel the Blasphemer in the Holocron of Darth Revan.

-Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side


[Nihilus]

"As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely."

- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords


These Sith we face... they have learned how to do this. It is a technique that has been lost for some time, not seen in the days since the ancient Sith. They can use it to consume other Force Sensitives - and at the highest pinnacle of power, use it to consume anything that lives. They draw upon the connections in the Force, and devour it.
 
-Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords


"The sect of assassins that chase you feed on the Force . . . Those Sith assassins can sense their prey through the Force - it is like a hunger."

-Kreia, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2 - The Sith Lords


"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."

- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

 
"Darth Traya indeed teaches the newly christened Darth Nihilus to harness his life-draining gift to radical heights—so effectively, in fact, that Nihilus saps Traya's powers in a calculated double-cross. But Traya underestimates her disciples' depravity. They turn on her and drain her Force powers."

―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

 
Drawn to the assembled Masters, Nihilus devoured the life energy of everything on Katarr. Millions of Miraluka died, along with most of the Jedi Order’s senior members. Walking Katarr’s lifeless surface later, Darth Nihilus came across the only survivor: the traumatized Miraluka Visas Marr, whom Nihilus took as his apprentice."

―The Conclave at Katarr Codex Entry (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

 
"As Nihilus greedily consumes entire planets life energies, the dark side macerates him even faster."

―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide


"Darth Nihilus was known as the Lord of Hunger and was noted for his ability to literally consume the Force energy of his victims, which was used to sustain his own life energies. It was rumored that he could consume the Force energy of an entire planet.

―The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia


Nor would Nihilus tolerate such a rival and competitor for his sustenance. Given the Sith Lord's unique background, it is not the type of ability that would be taught to an apprentice."

―Power Beyond Belief: Using Ultra-Powerful Sith Lords in Saga Edition


"[Darth Nihilus can] draw life energy from living beings, gradually absorbing it [himself]."

―Star Wars: The Dark Side Sourcebook

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Let’s begin with the Star Forge. It is clearly stated that the Star Forge life drained users who attempted to tap into its power. Life drain is essentially a technique that saps life energies of users and it is a technique that can be taught. There is no evidence whatsoever of the Forge also devouring Force energies. On the other hand, Nihilus Force Drains users by literally consuming/devouring the Force connections of people and consuming the Force energy of his victims which is then used to sustain his life energies. This is one of the main differences between life drain and Force drain. Life drain directly saps life energies only while Force Drain directly saps Force energies which then is used to sustain/feed on the life energies from the death caused by devouring the Force energies. While both Nihilus and the Star Forge devour life energies, the means/technique in which they do is the difference and this is a critical difference between the two. Star Forge directly drains life energies and causes death due to draining those life energies. Nihilus directly drains Force energies that causes the death which then causes Nihilus to consume and sustain the life energies after the death occurs, which was caused by devouring the Force energies. Not only that, but the Star Forge’s life draining technique is one that can be and has been taught throughout the Star Wars universe while Nihilus’s technique cannot be taught and has to be experienced first-hand. In addition to all this, Nihilus’s technique is said to ‘feed upon the death it causes’. Yet despite this, the Builders, who were stated to not be strong enough to control the Forge, were not killed by the Forge and only lost their Force abilities (discussed below). This highlights another big difference between the Forge and Nihilus’s technique. In addition to that, Nihilus’s ‘life-draining gift’ is said to have become so effective that Nihilus saps and drains Kreia’s Force powers, a clear difference to life drain that only saps life energies, which the Star Forge incorporates

Before someone goes on about how the Star Forge drains exactly like Nihilus because it would cause the ‘end of the Force’, I want to clearly state there is a huge difference in how Nihilus and the Star Forge were a threat and the ‘end of the Force.’ Let’s start with the Star Forge again. Consider:
 
Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked Rakata11

The Star Forge is the ‘end of the Force’ because of the plague and the apparent mutation of the plague virus it supposedly caused which is exactly what caused the Builders to lose their Force abilities. The Star Forge did not cause the Builders to lose their Force connections by literally devouring those connections like Nihilus, which is also evidenced by how the Builders were not killed by the Forge. It caused the Builders to lose their Force abilities by causing a mutated plague and it is exactly this that caused their Force connections to be lost. This is a huge distinction to Nihilus who literally devours Force connections through his drain and thus causing the lose of Force abilities, as evident by Kreia. As a matter of fact, the Star Forge does not even drain Force connections; it causes a plague which causes this. Not only that, but the Star Forge is a threat to the Force only after its continued use over a long period of time. And this is exactly evident in the Builders case. The Star Forge was built around 30,000 BBY while the plague which caused the Empire to collapse took place around 25,200 BBY. This means it took around 4800 years of continued and prolonged use of the Star Forge by the Builders in order for it to cause the plague and thus become ‘the end of the Force’ for the Builders. And this is exactly what Bastila is talking about when she says:

 ‘I'm convinced that Revan did not intend us to keep the Star Forge to use it would mean the end of the Sith, the end of the Force.’.

Revan did not want them to keep the Star Forge because its prolonged use by the Builders is what caused them to lose their Force ability through the plague which took 4800 years to take place. And actually this is exactly why Bastila also mentions 'the end of the Sith'. The above quote comes from the Dark Side ending of KOTOR 1 where Bastila is a Sith. She says that The Forge would be the end of the Sith because the same thing that happened to the Builders would happen to them eventually if they kept using it. A mutated plague would eventually cause these Sith to lose Force abilities and thus result in the 'end of the Sith', exactly like what happened with the Builders.  All of the above points are even further supported by the fact that Bastila and all those Sith apprentices you find on the Star Forge in KOTOR 1 are not devoured of their Force connections by the Forge despite not being powerful enough to harness it. This is even further supported by how the Builders, who were stated to not even be strong enough to control the Forge, were able to continue using the Forge and continue having Force abilities for nearly 4800 years before they finally lost it through the plague. This is even further supported by the fact that all the Rakata, even those who were on different planets and not even on the Star Forge, lost their Force abilities. 

So to put it simply, the prolonged use of the Star Forge over a long period of time is what caused the plague and the plague mutation which was exactly what caused the Builders to lose their Force abilities and thus making the Star Forge a threat to the Force, a period which took nearly 4800 years to even occur. In contrast, Nihilus is a threat to the Force because he literally devours Force connections/energies and he can do this immediately and does not require 4800 years like the Forge. In addition to that, Nihilus directly devours the Force while the Star Forge causes a plague and it is this plague that causes the Force to be lost not the Star Forge itself.

Nihilus -> Force Drain; can do so in very short period of time. 

Star Forge -> Mutated plague taking 4800 years of prolonged use. 

A very clear and huge distinction. Therefore, using the Star Forge to claim Revan or Malak would resist Nihilus’s drain is completely invalid and entirely contradicted on many levels as I have thoroughly shown above. Period.
S_W_LeGenD
S_W_LeGenD

Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked Empty Re: Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked

on June 24th 2020, 10:14 am
Thought-provoking... Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked 1668617588

Star Forge's consumption effect is not expanded upon much in detail, but yes, it has consumed many a Force-users who attempted to operationalize it.

Good work nevertheless.
Darth Nihilus
Darth Nihilus

Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked Empty Re: Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked

on June 24th 2020, 1:32 pm
@S_W_LeGenD wrote:Thought-provoking... Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked 1668617588

Star Forge's consumption effect is not expanded upon much in detail, but yes, it has consumed many a Force-users who attempted to operationalize it.

Good work nevertheless.

The Star Forge Life Drained and not Force Drained those users. Either way, the Builders, despite being not powerful enough to harness the Forge, were not Life Drained by it and further puts the potency of this Life Drain in question anyways.

Thank you friend. Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked 1289255181
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Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked Empty Re: Resisting Nihilus's Drain based on the Star Forge - Debunked

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