Darth Vader V Exar Kun

@HellfireUnit 
Let’s keep a cooler tone, please. What’s the point in pointing out one another’s faults in the past? If KoB asked you to provide an argument, please do so.

LadyKulvax wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Yeah sure thing. Classic non-sense scaling chains as usual. Even worse than Revan>Malak>Kun scaling.

Exar Kun in his spirit form was much weaker than in his prime incarnation as his power was decimated by the Wall of Light attack:




It's a fact that in spiritual form Exar Kun was capable in his own right of defeating Master Luke:

Champions of the Force wrote:Afraid to challenge the dark power that had been sufficient to warp other students and defeat Master Skywalker.

Master Luke was in his prime of power at that point:

Champions of the Force wrote:Luke clapped him on the back and smiled with dark-ringed eyes that shone with an inner brightness stronger than ever before. As he conquered each seemingly insurmountable obstacle, Luke's Jedi powers grew greater and greater- but, like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda, a Jedi Master learned to use his powers even less, relying on wits instead of showmanship.

Redeemed Luke was definitely stronger than he was against Vader:

The Emperor, Dark Empire #2 wrote:“You’ve grown very strong in the Force since last we met...“

Against Vader, pretty much every source states Luke either surpassed or equated him:

Beware the Sith wrote:Although Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker are equally strong in the Force, their duels are more than just about physical strength.

Jedi Battles wrote:Father and son were now equally strong with the Force and equally skilled with their lightsabers.

Return of the Jedi Comic wrote:On the Death Star, father and son grimly clash! Brutally, aggressively, Darth Vader brings his full strength and power against the younger man. But unlike the first time they dueled in the carbon-freezing chamber of Bespin's Cloud City, this is a battle of equals. The young Jedi has grown in the interim, and if there is any true advantage, it seems to have shifted to him.

In fact, he's more powerful than any Jedi Darth Vader's faced; arguably including Starkiller:

Shadows of the Empire wrote:Obi-Wan was gone, and the other Jedi were all extinct, save one, who was the strongest of them all. His own son. He had told the Emperor that Luke Skywalker would join them or die. The real truth was only slightly different: Luke would join Darth Vader or die. It would be something to look forward to. That would be the duel of a lifetime. This wasn’t even exercise.

Vader cannot win here, I'm doing you a favor by not using a feats comparison.

Bumping to next page.

What feats put Kun near Vader? Vader has the favor of Banite scaling and performed superior dueling, strength, speed, durability feats. First of all what makes people think that Kun is even above Bane? Kun has not displayed anything that can overwhelm Vader's defenses. Even with Kyp's might, they are unable to harm an extremely hindered, holding back Luke. A Kun with lethal intent only could KO Aleema Keto. Drain isn't even a factor when it comes to combat since Anakin already possessed the knowledge to resist it. When it comes to dueling feats, even a massively pre-prime Vader does better than Kun. Stalemating Ulic and beating Vodo are supposed be impressive? The weakest version of Vader melts durasteel with his Force Scream whereas Kun's barely did anything. And I am not going to even mention Kun relying on external amps to perform his best feats which Vader can counter anyways.

All of these aside, why the hell you are jumping all out of sudden? You know I don't like to argue with AP.

If you don't like to argue with him, then you should just refrain from interacting entirely with him. Shit talking adds nothing of substance to this thread

Are you an admin or something like that I have failed to realize? What's it to you KoB, don't put your nose over something that doesn't involve you in the slightest.

I don't have to be a mod to not want toxic shit talking and trolling pervading threads. And this is a public thread, so I have every right to voice my disapproval of what's going on here. FYI: You're arguably breaking rules 1,2, and 4 that can be found on the global guidelines thread. I don't want to alert the mods, which is why I'm asking you to stop this, so this doesn't become a larger issue.

HellfireUnit wrote:What feats put Kun near Vader?

Veritable mountains of them.

HellfireUnit wrote:Vader has the favor of Banite scaling

LMFAO, please substantiate this.

HellfireUnit wrote:and performed superior dueling, strength, speed, durability feats.

Just one of Exar Kun's techniques was superior to all of the other lightsaber techniques Ventress ever learnt. Ventress is a better duelist than basically everybody Vader faced after Mustafar.

Kun breaking through a wall of beskar, surviving hundreds of breaks in his bones and being far beyond being faster than the vision of a powerhouse such as Nomi Sunrider who was amped on the energy of saving her own daughter Vima is probably up with Vader's augmentative capabilities.

HellfireUnit wrote:First of all what makes people think that Kun is even above Bane?

By being better than him in absolutely everything.

HellfireUnit wrote:Kun has not displayed anything that can overwhelm Vader's defenses.

There's a plethora, but I'm going to save us both the time. Call it mercy.

HellfireUnit wrote:Even with Kyp's might, they are unable to harm an extremely hindered, holding back Luke.

Dark Apprentice wrote:Kyp made a dismissive gesture with one hand, and a sudden wave of dark ripples splashed across the air like the shock front of a concussion grenade. Luke stumbled backward. The lightsaber turned cold in his hand. Frost crystals grew in feathery patterns around the handle. At the core of the brilliant green blade a shadow appeared, a black disease rotting away the purity of the beam. The humming blade sputtered, sounding like a sickly cough. The black taint rapidly grew stronger, swallowing up the green beam. With a frizzle of sparks Luke’s lightsaber died.
Trying to control his growing fear, Luke felt a sudden brush of cold behind him. He turned to see a black, hooded silhouette—the image that had impersonated Anakin Skywalker in Luke’s nightmare…the dark man who had lured Gantoris into a devastating loss of control.
Kyp’s voice came as if from a great distance. “At last, Master Skywalker, you can meet my mentor—Exar Kun.”
Luke dropped his useless lightsaber and crouched. His every muscle suddenly coiled and tensed. He rallied all the powers of the Force around him, seeking any defensive tactic. With the Sun Crusher looming behind him, Kyp stretched out both hands and blasted Luke with lightning bolts like black cracks in the Force. Dark tendrils rose up from the gaps in the temple flagstones, fanged, illusionary vipers that struck at him from all sides. Luke cried out and tried to strike back, but the shadows of Exar Kun joined the attack, adding more deadly force. The ancient Dark Lord of the Sith lashed out with waves of blackness, driving long icicles of frozen poison into Luke’s body.
He thrashed, but felt helpless. To lose control to anger and desperation would be as great a failure as if he did nothing at all. Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him—but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly.

Nor did Kun need Kyp's power, just energy in place of his total lack of any. As Kun's spirit is confirmed to be > Luke:

Champions of the Force wrote:Afraid to challenge the dark power that had been sufficient to warp other students and defeat Master Skywalker.

HellfireUnit wrote:A Kun with lethal intent only could KO Aleema Keto.

Ulic himself was far greater than Aleema Keto:

Dark Empire Endnotes wrote:During the years he [Ulic] had transformed completely, into a warrior magus with dark powers far beyond those demonstrated by any other member of the Krath!

Then he spent years gaining more power:



Until he was stripped of his weapon and power by Vodo:




NOTE: All of Vodo's aid got stomped by Ulic prior to the aforementioned years of tremendous power growth.

And Kun's power was so much greater than Vodo's that Vodo was 'no match' for him despite Kun maintaining control on tens of thousands of senators and having just ragdolled Sylvar*:

Power of the Jedi Sourcebook wrote:Ulic’s trial was interrupted by Exar Kun, who met his former Master face to face for the first time since his long descent into darkness. The two fought, and Vodo-Siosk Baas was no match for Exar Kun’s double-bladed lightsaber and deep reserve of dark side power. Vodo-Siosk perished, slain by his former apprentice.

*Sylvar got one-shotted:



Sylvar being the same woman who moved faster than Nomi could see:



Nomi having literally stomped Aleema twice before Sylvar moved faster than she could see:





But no, Kun couldn't kill Keto.

HellfireUnit wrote:Drain isn't even a factor when it comes to combat since Anakin already possessed the knowledge to resist it.

As if Exar Kun is going to bother with fucking Force Drain.

HellfireUnit wrote:When it comes to dueling feats, even a massively pre-prime Vader does better than Kun. Stalemating Ulic and beating Vodo are supposed be impressive?

Considering the Jedi iteration of Ulic stomped a warrior with the collective lightsaber knowledge and experience of King Adas, Freedon Nadd and Naga Sadow. I really don't see where you're getting the idea that the vastly superior prime Kun doesn't hold up.

HellfireUnit wrote:The weakest version of Vader melts durasteel with his Force Scream whereas Kun's barely did anything.

The New Essential Chronology wrote:Exar Kun let out a tremendous shriek that echoed across the galaxy, calling in despair upon Master Vodo, whom he had abandoned.

The Essential Guide to Characters wrote:Nadd offered Kun a way to live, and to repair his broken body: if he embraced the dark side, he would be healed. The betrayal of light was not an easy one for Kun, but the desire to live was stronger. He accepted the dark side, his screams reaching out across the galaxy and creating ripples in the Force.

Vader's Screams melt durasteel, Kun's are on a galactic scale and create ripples in the Force felt by all Jedi. That was Jedi Kun. Lmfao.

HellfireUnit wrote:And I am not going to even mention Kun relying on external amps to perform his best feats which Vader can counter anyways.

Almost all of Exar Kun's best feats are on a light side nexus such as Ossus or a non-nexus planet such as Coruscant. His only major feat on a nexus was capital ship telekinesis before he even went to Cinnagar. Roflmao.

HellfireUnit wrote:You know I don't like to argue with AP.

We all know why that actually is.

Bump. Let's see if the Vader brigade under the newly anointed Darth Latham2000 can fend off the Ancient Powers of Exar Kun.

I don't care about Exar Kun, but as long as LadyKulvax doesn't advocate the Vader is sub-TPM Kenobi nonsense, then I'm neutral.

If I remember correctly Kulvax thought he was on Dooku's level

vader still ragdolls :>

Literally an entire thread of me ptoving your assertion is wrong yet you come in here like none of it matters.

EmperorCaedus wrote:Bump. Let's see if the Vader brigade under the newly anointed Darth Latham2000 can fend off the Ancient Powers of Exar Kun.

He can't, trust me on that. The wizardry of Kun is far too powerful for any scion of Vader to defeat.

Exar Kun, in all honesty in terms of 1v1 he probably is one of the most dominant in the entire mythos. He can summon Dark side Tendrils that JA Luke could not power thru nor any of the defenses that Kenobi and even Yoda taught him helped stop at all. Said tendrils feel like your blood is replaced with molten lava, and Kun can simultaneously blast Vader with Lightning and freeze his saber until it short circuits making it no longer work. 


With Vader weaponless while being hammered by Tendrils and Lightning Kun could very well use the Sith spell that froze the senators since Vader would be essentially too occupied trying to defend himself from Tendrils/lightning combo. Kun could very well add his dark side blasts into the mix which can disintegrate Sith Wryms and turn Massassi warriors into ash. 


Even if Vader could close the distance before Kun pulls off his powers he is an unorthodox duelist wearing Cortosis weaved armor and the Tendrils don't come directly from him either, meaning Vader could very well get assaulted from all directions whilst dueling Kun. 

Vaders TK pound for pound might not be enough to batter Kun since Kun can erect force barriers that tank bombing runs from starfighters and Kun can lift a 215 meter long cruiser into space with his TK. 

Kun just has more advantages over Vader even if they were equals in raw power and dueling, Kun also knows things Vader doesn't know as well. Then you have all the accolades stating Kun was the strongest Sith and how his teachings can make Kyp Durron "another Darth Vader"

I mean, I dont see how Kun can't just use his technology manipulation to fry the hell out of Vader's circuits and leave him crippled tbh

Because of my truce and partnership with AP, I will leave my word out of this

Luke during the Jedi Academy trilogy said his 2 most powerful opponents were reborn Palpatine and the spirit of Exar Kun. The spirit was weakened when he fought Luke.
Kun wins.

Kun makes Vader scream Padme’s name.

Latham2000 wrote:Kun makes Vader scream Padme’s name.

u mean padme makes vader scream padme's name

Despite being what looks to be 26 pages of roughly the same 6 points late, im just here to say that Exar kun ragdolls ROTJ Vader, in my eyes with partial ease. Vader looked up to the spirit of Karness Muur, whose power is MARGINALLY below the likes of Nadd, and by virtue of him, Kun. 



Also 
#GoAP
#JustBecauseYou'reLike40DoesntMeanYourStaminaHasWentDown 
#OldDebaterLivesMatter

why is "marginally" in all caps

Sith Archivist wrote:Luke during the Jedi Academy trilogy said his 2 most powerful opponents were reborn Palpatine and the spirit of Exar Kun. The spirit was weakened when he fought Luke.
Kun wins.

He said two of the most powerful, not the two most powerful. Also, citation on the spirit being weaker than his physical form from TOTJ?

His power was 'extinguished' by the wall of light prior to being driven 'half-mad' by four thousand years of isolation. Then we know for a fact that Kun's resurrection entails regaining his 'long lost reserves' which is accomplished by draining 'Luke and the other students'. It's a fact, essentially.

Whoever is closest to TPM Kenobi wins.

Exar Kun is directly compared to DE Sidious. He wins.