Re: Yoda's prime

May 30th 2019, 10:58 pm

SithArchaeologist wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:

SithArchaeologist wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:"Palpatine is too strong for the aging Yoda." --- Comics Companion

Thoughts on this quote, everyone? Seems to state ROTS Yoda's not in his prime.

Hard to say. It could imply that, but I'm not entirely convinced tbh. Yoda's growth over the Clone Wars seems to be fairly substantial, at least in theory.

Well, that depends on if we're treating Yoda's journey in the Lost Missions as Legends.

True. What are people's stances on that?

The episodes were aired in February 2014 in Germany, so technically they predate the Canon/Legends split.

May 30th 2019, 11:06 pm

IIRC, their release in the US was March 7th, which also predated the split.

May 31st 2019, 8:20 am

DarthAnt66 wrote:

In-sidiousvader wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:"Palpatine is too strong for the aging Yoda." --- Comics Companion

Thoughts on this quote, everyone? Seems to state ROTS Yoda's not in his prime.

Doesn't phase me in the slightest. All it says is that Yoda is aging and Sidious is too stronk, means nothing to me.

I'd say there's an obvious insinuation that "aging" is a relevant variable in Palpatine being "too strong" -- otherwise it seems terribly random.

It's obviously relevant but is it the only thing that's relevant? That's the real question. Is the implication that Yoda 200 years in the past could defeat Palpatine? Or is the implication if you took what Yoda knew now and who he was now and put him in the body he had 200 years ago he would beat Palpatine? I don't think it's entirely conclusive.

May 31st 2019, 1:21 pm

DarthAnt66 wrote:

In-sidiousvader wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:"Palpatine is too strong for the aging Yoda." --- Comics Companion

Thoughts on this quote, everyone? Seems to state ROTS Yoda's not in his prime.

Doesn't phase me in the slightest. All it says is that Yoda is aging and Sidious is too stronk, means nothing to me.

I'd say there's an obvious insinuation that "aging" is a relevant variable in Palpatine being "too strong" -- otherwise it seems terribly random.

Sure Yoda is past his prime, but I think his ability to contend with Sidious for such a long time ( and even disarm him) was because so much was at stake. The Jedi are nearly gone, Palpatine has risen to power and has a new apprentice in the form of Darth Vader an ex jedi. He was essentially fighting for his life and the life of other people.

May 31st 2019, 9:56 pm

I don't have a stake in this debate at all, and highly doubt Yoda was declining, but we have quotes that do imply this;

I would feel more comfortable if I knew they were on their way to Vjun. I think the world of Master Yoda, but he is very old, and perhaps not all that he once was. The idea of him facing Count Dooku alone, in the Count's stronghold... it makes my blood run cold.

"Is there such a thing as too much power?" Dooku mused. "For instance," he continued carefully, "there was a day when your power was clearly greater than mine. Today, however I have waxed as you have waned. You stand in my citadel. I have at my command servants and droids and great powers of my own that I think would overwhelm even you.

-- Yoda Dark Rendezvous

May 31st 2019, 9:56 pm

These can be interpreted in a number of ways, and both are pov quotes, but I thought it necessary to mention.

June 1st 2019, 2:48 am

Jake wrote:I don't have a stake in this debate at all, and highly doubt Yoda was declining, but we have quotes that do imply this;

I would feel more comfortable if I knew they were on their way to Vjun. I think the world of Master Yoda, but he is very old, and perhaps not all that he once was. The idea of him facing Count Dooku alone, in the Count's stronghold... it makes my blood run cold.

"Is there such a thing as too much power?" Dooku mused. "For instance," he continued carefully, "there was a day when your power was clearly greater than mine. Today, however I have waxed as you have waned. You stand in my citadel. I have at my command servants and droids and great powers of my own that I think would overwhelm even you.

-- Yoda Dark Rendezvous

Even though this quotes says that Yoda have decline, they cannot be really use. Indeed, they comes directly from Dooku when he encounters Yoda. And at this time, Dooku is a sith so pretty arrogant. I will say that the subjectivity of this quote is too high for using them as solid proofs.

June 1st 2019, 2:58 am

I don't know what Dooku believing Yoda declining has to do with his arrogance. The fact that he thinks he could overwhelm Yoda perhaps, and exaggerating his growth during the war, but the belief that his old Master is waning is perfectly legitimate.

December 13th 2019, 1:44 am

Not entirely convinced tbh.

December 13th 2019, 2:33 am

Good thing I found about this thread, will read. I am not convinced that Yoda at his prime during PT.

December 13th 2019, 5:26 am

Baby Yoda is prime Yoda.

December 13th 2019, 8:18 am

Force users consistently grow in power as they age. Yoda would likely be no exception. He already relied heavily on Force augmentation to compensate for his lack of height, so age wouldn't really affect anything except his stamina. If anything, he'd be even more dangerous since Force enhanced physicals > standard physicals.

December 13th 2019, 8:38 am

even if he was weaker, he had 200 or so years of growth in other areas (he clearly became more skilled in the force, smarter, more experienced, new/better force abilities)

December 13th 2019, 9:40 am

Latham2000 wrote:Baby Yoda is prime Yoda.

December 13th 2019, 7:54 pm

tbh, its impressive how they made the most iconic star wars character even more iconic now. kudos to that kriff

December 14th 2019, 3:58 am

BreakofDawn (away) wrote:Force users consistently grow in power as they age. Yoda would likely be no exception. He already relied heavily on Force augmentation to compensate for his lack of height, so age wouldn't really affect anything except his stamina. If anything, he'd be even more dangerous since Force enhanced physicals > standard physicals.

Stamina isn’t the only thing that goes in an aging fighter. Speed, youthful energy, movement, natural reflexes, and resiliency also go. TPM Kenobi has far greater durability, speed, energy, and movement than ANH Kenobi. 52 BBY Jinn has noticeably better agility than TPM or even JA Jinn.

Stamina is very important for an already physically disadvantaged fighter like Yoda who has to work twice as hard to cover the same distance a normal sized individual can do in a simple movement.

Most Force users should theoretically peak physically and mentally around the mid to late thirties. The early twenties are the peak of human potential in both aspects but most don't develop that mental toughness until considerably older and more battle-hardened, so mid to late thirties are when they tend to be at their best.

There comes a point though when Force augmentation can't completely nullify Father time.

Around the forties is when a Force user starts to really feel the effects of their age. DoE Bane was at his mental apex but was physically slower and less strong than he once was. Mace's age was considered a factor against the younger Kar Vastor, though he still had room to grow mentally. Kenobi likewise considered his age a disadvantage against the younger Hett and he was only 40 though Tatooine's harsh climate is known to cause pre-mature aging so he could a few years older physically. Jinn was considered past-prime as of TPM and is noticeably less acrobatic than he was 20 years prior in the Dark Side comics. Ben is the most notorious example. People argue he's more attuned to the Force and it might be true but his augmentation obviously wasn't able to overcome his massively diminished physicals.

Also, at least one source supports the notion it's physically demanding and hard on the body to use the Force excessively:

Dynasty of Evil wrote:Flesh and bone lacked the strength to withstand the unfathomable energy unleashed by the Force.

Now I'm entirely not sure if this quote is speaking in general or specifically in regards to the Dark Side, but it would explain why many aging Force users are considerably less physically able despite being wiser and supposedly more attuned to the Force.

February 3rd 2020, 9:59 pm

Yoda could have:

A: Pull parts of the ship into colliding with one another.
B:Manipulated the controls from the ship
C: Yoda was using combination of force push and force pull
D: Yoda was lifting 4 stones.You can count them. The 4 stones weigh 25 tones.
E: Doesn't mean Yoda can lift 25 tons with TK doesn't apply to force pull and force push. Not to mention colliding the two ships together.

Example Spiderman can lift 10 tons, but he managed to support a building. Same applies here.

February 3rd 2020, 11:12 pm

P.S. The stones weigh several tons. Not five tons.

February 4th 2020, 9:28 am

ESB Yoda is prime Yoda

February 4th 2020, 12:49 pm

ESB yoda

February 4th 2020, 1:16 pm

The telekinesis feats were result of light side nexus amp. Coruscant is a nexus.

February 4th 2020, 4:27 pm

@RocketRaccoon Only the Jedi Temple is a light side nexus, and even its effects were mitigated by a walking galactic nexus (Palpatine).

Welcome to the forum, btw.

February 6th 2020, 1:35 am

BoD wrote:@RocketRaccoon Only the Jedi Temple is a light side nexus, and even its effects were mitigated by a walking galactic nexus (Palpatine).

Welcome to the forum, btw.

@BoD

Yoda and Mace Windu’s feats during the Battle Of Coruscant are amped by the nexus.

February 6th 2020, 8:03 am

Latham2000 wrote:Baby Yoda is prime Yoda.

This is still the correct answer, my friends.

February 6th 2020, 4:21 pm

RocketRaccoon wrote:

BoD wrote:@RocketRaccoon Only the Jedi Temple is a light side nexus, and even its effects were mitigated by a walking galactic nexus (Palpatine).

Welcome to the forum, btw.

@BoD

Yoda and Mace Windu’s feats during the Battle Of Coruscant are amped by the nexus.

Do you have sources for this?