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AlakanSpacewalker
AlakanSpacewalker

How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Empty How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources)

on February 20th 2020, 2:05 pm
I keep hearing amazing stuff from him but.
HellfireUnit
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on February 20th 2020, 2:13 pm
In the latest issue of Rise of Kylo Ren iirc, Luke stomped Knights of Ren without effort and intentions of killing. That should imply his skill in dueling. Also Force Projection/Döppelganger feat is decent despite being cut off of the Force for years.
BoD
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on February 20th 2020, 2:17 pm
Skill


Fought 4 ABY Vader as an equal (who by 14 BBY could go toe to toe with Jedi Council members like Eeth Koth, who held his own against Grievous), stomped numerous squads of Imperials, and stomped the Knights of Ren. Also, when well past his prime, he stomped TLJ Rey, who could take on several Praetorian Guards.

Power


Even after cutting himself off from the Force, a mere fraction of that strength allowed him to disrupt Rey and Ren's bond and blow apart a hut simply from the kinetic shockwave. He also projected himself across the galaxy with a projection that could fool not only Leia, but also Kylo Ren.

We haven't seen enough of prime Luke yet to be certain, but he's clearly up there with the high tiers.
DarthAdi
DarthAdi

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on February 20th 2020, 2:23 pm
Luke's canon hype is mostly based on holistic portrayal because he doesn't have that many feats. That being said Prime Luke should be more powerfull than Vader who in canon is pretty impressive.
It is also worth mentioning that two separate novels have now mentioned Luke pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky during the Battle of Jakku (1 year after ROTJ)
The legend of Luke Skywalker wrote:A jolt, as though the entire Star Destroyer had been picked up by a giant hand and slammed against the ground. My teeth and bones rattled. My vision swam. My ears filled with a high-pitched, incessant drone. The bridge went dark: the overhead lights, the viewscreens, the blinking lights on the banks of consoles, even the emergency lighting strips in the floor. All around us was the darkness of space; the faint, heartless glow of distant stars; and the dim radiance of heated, thin upper-atmosphere air against the bridge windows. My ears popped. Then I heard the inhuman, deafening metallic roar and screech of a ship dying in space.

The gravity generators failed, and we experienced the sensation of free fall as our bodies lifted off the deck. My crewmates and I screamed until we could not catch our breaths. The noise no longer sounded like living screams but an eerie replacement for the throbbing of the engines, which had suddenly been silenced. The ship slowed, drifted, stopped, and then the stark, lifeless surface of Jakku swung into view, filling the windows, and we fell.

Scrambling, shoving, kicking, somehow I made my way to one of the escape pods and strapped myself in. The only thought in my mind before I lost consciousness amid the screeching and groaning of struts and bulkheads strained to their limits was this: "We couldn't have lost; we shouldn't have lost; this was not a fair fight."

Force Collector wrote:It is said that Luke Skywalker--at the Battle of Jakku--he used the Force to reach into the sky and pull down the Empire's ships! The battle's victory belonged to him, that's what they say.

He also clowned the Knights of Ren in the Rise Of Kylo Ren comic.
It is also implied that he fought Snoke. We don't know what the 'battle' between Luke and Snoke entailed. But we do know that they probably had a fight, and it apparently didn't go in Snoke's favor:

How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) TngzSjc

We also know that Snoke respects and fears Luke

How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) JdqxVvB

Keep in mind that it is implied by Luke that Snoke ~ RotJ Palpatine in force mastery.
How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Ts5q5Zy
BoD
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on February 20th 2020, 2:26 pm
A jolt, as though the entire Star Destroyer had been picked up by a giant hand and slammed against the ground. My teeth and bones rattled. My vision swam. My ears filled with a high-pitched, incessant drone. The bridge went dark: the overhead lights, the viewscreens, the blinking lights on the banks of consoles, even the emergency lighting strips in the floor. All around us was the darkness of space; the faint, heartless glow of distant stars; and the dim radiance of heated, thin upper-atmosphere air against the bridge windows. My ears popped. Then I heard the inhuman, deafening metallic roar and screech of a ship dying in space.

The gravity generators failed, and we experienced the sensation of free fall as our bodies lifted off the deck. My crewmates and I screamed until we could not catch our breaths. The noise no longer sounded like living screams but an eerie replacement for the throbbing of the engines, which had suddenly been silenced. The ship slowed, drifted, stopped, and then the stark, lifeless surface of Jakku swung into view, filling the windows, and we fell.

Scrambling, shoving, kicking, somehow I made my way to one of the escape pods and strapped myself in. The only thought in my mind before I lost consciousness amid the screeching and groaning of struts and bulkheads strained to their limits was this: "We couldn't have lost; we shouldn't have lost; this was not a fair fight."

Sounds more like he damaged the engines, or he messed with the ship's systems, causing it to crash.
Azronger
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on February 20th 2020, 2:26 pm
@DarthAdi The last scan could just be saying his mastery of the dark side is equal to that of a Sith Lord, not necessarily the Emperor himself.

_________________
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DarthAdi
DarthAdi

How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Empty Re: How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources)

on February 20th 2020, 2:34 pm
@BoD wrote:
A jolt, as though the entire Star Destroyer had been picked up by a giant hand and slammed against the ground. My teeth and bones rattled. My vision swam. My ears filled with a high-pitched, incessant drone. The bridge went dark: the overhead lights, the viewscreens, the blinking lights on the banks of consoles, even the emergency lighting strips in the floor. All around us was the darkness of space; the faint, heartless glow of distant stars; and the dim radiance of heated, thin upper-atmosphere air against the bridge windows. My ears popped. Then I heard the inhuman, deafening metallic roar and screech of a ship dying in space.

The gravity generators failed, and we experienced the sensation of free fall as our bodies lifted off the deck. My crewmates and I screamed until we could not catch our breaths. The noise no longer sounded like living screams but an eerie replacement for the throbbing of the engines, which had suddenly been silenced. The ship slowed, drifted, stopped, and then the stark, lifeless surface of Jakku swung into view, filling the windows, and we fell.

Scrambling, shoving, kicking, somehow I made my way to one of the escape pods and strapped myself in. The only thought in my mind before I lost consciousness amid the screeching and groaning of struts and bulkheads strained to their limits was this: "We couldn't have lost; we shouldn't have lost; this was not a fair fight."

Sounds more like he damaged the engines, or he messed with the ship's systems, causing it to crash.
Why? A jolt, as though the entire Star Destroyer had been picked up by a giant hand and slammed against the ground This sounds like he pulled it from the sky with TK.
Also, do you have a source for Vader's fight with Koth being in 14 BBY?
DarthAdi
DarthAdi

How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Empty Re: How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources)

on February 20th 2020, 2:36 pm
@Azronger wrote:@DarthAdi The last scan could just be saying his mastery of the dark side is equal to that of a Sith Lord, not necessarily the Emperor himself.
Yeah, i guess is open for interpretation.
BoD
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on February 20th 2020, 2:39 pm
Why? A jolt, as though the entire Star Destroyer had been picked up by a giant hand and slammed against the ground This sounds like he pulled it from the sky with TK.

Or it sounds like the typical response a vehicle would have to suddenly seizing any motion or movement. Think of a car braking: if the car suddenly stops moving, a strong force propels the driver forward and makes it feel like the entire car has jerked to a stop. 

The text even notes it wasn't being pulled down, just falling:


The gravity generators failed, and we experienced the sensation of free fall as our bodies lifted off the deck. My crewmates and I screamed until we could not catch our breaths. The noise no longer sounded like living screams but an eerie replacement for the throbbing of the engines, which had suddenly been silenced. The ship slowed, drifted, stopped, and then the stark, lifeless surface of Jakku swung into view, filling the windows, and we fell.




Also, do you have a source for Vader's fight with Koth being in 14 BBY?

Hope you don't mind me stealing Wookiepedia's logic. Too tired to comb through the comics again:



The introductory paragraph of Tarkin  states that the events of the book take place five years  after the rise  of the Galactic Empire , which Star Wars: Galactic Atlas  dates to 19 BBY . Therefore, the events of Tarkin must take place in 14 BBY . As Darth Vader  knows about Wilhuff Tarkin 's past on Eriadu  in Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith 18 , which he only learned about in Tarkin, issue 18 must take place after the novel. The later issue Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith 19  featured the Second Sister , who was killed  in Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order . Fallen Order takes place five years after the Jedi Purge , which is dated to 19 BBY by Star Wars: Galactic Atlas. Therefore, Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order is also set in 14 BBY. As Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith 18 is between both Tarkin and Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith 19, the events of the issue must take place in 14 BBY. Therefore, the events of issue 19 must also occur in that year, as the issue is after issue 18 and before the Second Sister's death.
Underachiever599
Underachiever599

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on February 20th 2020, 2:53 pm
A couple things I want to point out regarding the Star Destroyer feat.

1. Both sources claiming it are In Universe, one is explicitly from an extremely unreliable narrator. (A rumor about a story told by a surviving Imperial. If you read the full story, the narrator explicitly hits his head, and seems to hallucinate for most of the remaining story due to head injury and dehydration on Jakku.)

2. There's no actual source putting Luke on Jakku during the battle. He seemed to be roaming the galaxy during that time frame.

3. Either Lost Stars or the third Aftermath book show us that the thing pulling Star Destroyers from the sky was the new Starhawk-class battleship, with an experimental new tractor beam. Given this was the first time the tech was used, it makes sense that in-universe sources who had no knowledge of it would instead attribute the falling Star Destroyers ro something supernatural, like the Force.
DarthAdi
DarthAdi

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on February 20th 2020, 2:56 pm
@Underachiever599 wrote:A couple things I want to point out regarding the Star Destroyer feat.

1. Both sources claiming it are In Universe, one is explicitly from an extremely unreliable narrator. (A rumor about a story told by a surviving Imperial. If you read the full story, the narrator explicitly hits his head, and seems to hallucinate for most of the remaining story due to head injury and dehydration on Jakku.)

2. There's no actual source putting Luke on Jakku during the battle. He seemed to be roaming the galaxy during that time frame.

3. Either Lost Stars or the third Aftermath book show us that the thing pulling Star Destroyers from the sky was the new Starhawk-class battleship, with an experimental new tractor beam. Given this was the first time the tech was used, it makes sense that in-universe sources who had no knowledge of it would instead attribute the falling Star Destroyers ro something supernatural, like the Force.
Didn't knew that. Yeah, i guess he didn't pulled the ISD in this case.
Underachiever599
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on February 20th 2020, 7:58 pm
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
@DarthAdi wrote:
@Underachiever599 wrote:A couple things I want to point out regarding the Star Destroyer feat.

1. Both sources claiming it are In Universe, one is explicitly from an extremely unreliable narrator. (A rumor about a story told by a surviving Imperial. If you read the full story, the narrator explicitly hits his head, and seems to hallucinate for most of the remaining story due to head injury and dehydration on Jakku.)

2. There's no actual source putting Luke on Jakku during the battle. He seemed to be roaming the galaxy during that time frame.

3. Either Lost Stars or the third Aftermath book show us that the thing pulling Star Destroyers from the sky was the new Starhawk-class battleship, with an experimental new tractor beam. Given this was the first time the tech was used, it makes sense that in-universe sources who had no knowledge of it would instead attribute the falling Star Destroyers ro something supernatural, like the Force.
Didn't knew that. Yeah, i guess he didn't pulled the ISD in this case.
It sort of hurts me to admit it, honestly. I'm a huge Luke fan, and would love to prop him up to Star Destroyer+ TK levels, but the feat just seems to be in-universe myth. 

That said, Canon Luke is still extremely impressive. Casually stomping all of the Knights of Ren at once while actively trying not to kill them, shuddering a Star Destroyer with a Force Push against Sergeant Kreel in the Marvel comic run, beating Canon Vader (who has an insane number of impressive feats), and the Force Projection are all amazing feats. 

In one of the most recent Marvel comics, he also TKed at least 17 TIE Fighters at once, immediately after having his hand cut off and learning that Vader was his father. Before he even got the prosthetic hand put on, with his connection to the Force shaky at best due to the recent revelation. This is one of the best TK feats in terms of control in all of Canon, and he did it while majorly hindered. I'm looking forward to see what other feats he gets out of this comic run in the coming months.
BoD
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on February 20th 2020, 8:32 pm
@Underachiever599 
In one of the most recent Marvel comics, he also TKed at least 17 TIE Fighters at once, immediately after having his hand cut off and learning that Vader was his father. Before he even got the prosthetic hand put on, with his connection to the Force shaky at best due to the recent revelation. This is one of the best TK feats in terms of control in all of Canon, and he did it while majorly hindered. I'm looking forward to see what other feats he gets out of this comic run in the coming months.
He wasn't really hindered. He'd basically recovered from his near-death experience by this point. Plus, he was heavily tapping into the dark side, and he didn't move the fighters, just their controls. Still insanely impressive, but he didn't move the fighters themselves:


How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Rco02313  How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Rco02412 How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Rco02511


He struggles with it throughout the issue:

How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Rco03111
Underachiever599
Underachiever599

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on February 20th 2020, 9:31 pm
@BoD wrote:@Underachiever599 
In one of the most recent Marvel comics, he also TKed at least 17 TIE Fighters at once, immediately after having his hand cut off and learning that Vader was his father. Before he even got the prosthetic hand put on, with his connection to the Force shaky at best due to the recent revelation. This is one of the best TK feats in terms of control in all of Canon, and he did it while majorly hindered. I'm looking forward to see what other feats he gets out of this comic run in the coming months.
[size=33]He wasn't really hindered. He'd basically recovered from his near-death experience by this point. Plus, he was heavily tapping into the dark side, and he didn't move the fighters, just their controls. Still insanely impressive, but he didn't move the fighters themselves:[/size]


[size=33] How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Rco02313  How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Rco02412 How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Rco02511
[/size]

He struggles with it throughout the issue:

How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) Rco03111
Where did you get the idea that Luke has "basically recovered?" The issue's opening crawl tells us "Luke now reels from his defeat at the hands of Darth Vader" and we are shown Luke having PTSD-style flashbacks, which continue through the whole issue. His face is still clearly bruised and scraped from his duel, and his stump is still in the compression sleeve he wore before getting his prosthetic. Lando clearly states in the issue that this is still the same day that the events on Cloud City transpired. This basically takes place minutes/hours after the Rebels jumped to hyperspace away from Bespin. Luke simply hasn't had time to recover.

What's more, the following issue has him struggling against a training remote while wielding a blaster. Lando calls Luke's bluff, pointing out Luke and the Force "ain't on friendly terms." Luke doesn't refute him. More proof Luke is hindered during this time frame.

Also, I explicitly credited the feat as one of control not power. He didn't ragdoll the TIE Fighters, but he did affect all 17 with TK at once. Sure, it was TK targeting their control yokes, but still TK nonetheless. And such precise TK on that many targets at once is ridiculously impressive. 

As for whether or not Luke "heavily tapped" into the dark side for the feat, that's somewhat debateable. The opening crawl of the next issue states "A wounded Luke tapped deep into the Force to destroy an entire squadron of enemy fighters." It makes no mention of Luke having used the dark side to do so. Yes, Luke later talks to R2 about feeling confused, angry, and afraid, but he brings that up in reference to neither Ben nor Yoda responding to him. There's no proof he actually called upon those feeling during the battle. Though, even if he did, I'd say that just makes the feat more impressive, as it was a feat of precision rather than raw power. The dark side amps usually aren't associated with precision, as fear and anger tend to lead to more raw, unfocused power.
BoD
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on February 20th 2020, 9:37 pm
@Underachiever599 I'm blind, didn't see you said control, not power. Sorry.
Underachiever599
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on February 20th 2020, 9:55 pm
@BoD wrote:@[size=37][size=37]Underachiever599[/size] I'm blind, didn't see you said control, not power. Sorry.[/size]
All good, mate
Rohirrim
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on February 21st 2020, 5:23 am
I think there's some truth to him tapping into the dark side. He looked shocked and somewhat horrified of what he had done.

How good is prime Luke in Disney canon? (quote your sources) 1starw10
Galan007
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on February 24th 2020, 3:42 pm
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Some of this has already been presented, but...

Two separate novels have now mentioned Luke pulling Imperial ships out of the sky during the Battle of Jakku(which took place 1 year after RotJ)...

A jolt, as though the entire Star Destroyer had been picked up by a giant hand and slammed against the ground. My teeth and bones rattled. My vision swam. My ears filled with a high-pitched, incessant drone. The bridge went dark: the overhead lights, the viewscreens, the blinking lights on the banks of consoles, even the emergency lighting strips in the floor. All around us was the darkness of space; the faint, heartless glow of distant stars; and the dim radiance of heated, thin upper-atmosphere air against the bridge windows. My ears popped. Then I heard the inhuman, deafening metallic roar and screech of a ship dying in space.

The gravity generators failed, and we experienced the sensation of free fall as our bodies lifted off the deck. My crewmates and I screamed until we could not catch our breaths. The noise no longer sounded like living screams but an eerie replacement for the throbbing of the engines, which had suddenly been silenced. The ship slowed, drifted, stopped, and then the stark, lifeless surface of Jakku swung into view, filling the windows, and we fell.

Scrambling, shoving, kicking, somehow I made my way to one of the escape pods and strapped myself in. The only thought in my mind before I lost consciousness amid the screeching and groaning of struts and bulkheads strained to their limits was this: "We couldn't have lost; we shouldn't have lost; this was not a fair fight."


-The Legends of Luke Skywalker


It is said that Luke Skywalker--at the Battle of Jakku--he used the Force to reach into the sky and pull down the Empire's ships! The battle's victory belonged to him, that's what they say.


-Force Collector


Karr was thrown by the Clone Wars comment since he had hoped to hear more about the Jedi Skywalker pulling ships from the sky, but he was happy they had access nonetheless.


-Force Collector


Now more than ever he wished he had the power to pull ships from the sky the way Skywalker was rumored to have done.


-Force Collector


"Do you know anything about a Jedi named Skywalker who supposedly pulled ships down from the sky during the fight with the Empire here?"
...The old woman nodded.


-Force Collector

Granted, these are essentially just the stories of a few random in-universe characters/narrators, but it's interesting that two different canon sources have mentioned this feat.

It's also not entirely without precedent. In the comics Luke was able to make an entire Star Destroyer "shudder" with a TK attack:
https://i.imgur.com/a8CUvWK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JnkxXx1.jpg
...And that was pre-ESB Luke, who had virtually NO formalized Jedi training whatsoever.


Again, the quotes certainly aren't irrefutable... They're just some food for thought.


_____________________________


You also have Luke comparing Snoke's "dark side mastery" to [RotJ] Palpatine's in Secrets of the Jedi:
https://i.imgur.com/apprMCC.jpg
"Unlike Emperor Palpatine before him, Snoke was not a Sith Lord, but his mastery of the dark side was equally as impressive -- and terrifying."


I suppose the dialogue is open to interpretation, but imo Luke is using Palpatine's raw dark side power as a measuring stick for Snoke's. If Luke were just comparing Snoke to some random/generic Sith Lord, he likely would not have explicitly mentioned Palpatine in the same breath. But again, that's just my take.


This becomes important because in The Rise of Kylo Ren, Kylo implied that Luke is the one who gave Snoke his injuries:
https://i.imgur.com/XLc1rFp.jpg
"Snoke... Look what Master Luke did to you."


And in the Ages series, we learn that Snoke both respects AND fears Luke:
https://i.imgur.com/4W8CuKQ.jpg


So IF taken at face value, this could potentially scale Luke above RotJ Palpatine.



_____________________________



Personally, the part of canon Luke's history/powerset that I find the most intriguing is the immense wealth of Force-related knowledge he studied...


In the comics we see that Luke eventually finds Jocasta Nu's makeshift 'school' and trove of Holocrons:
https://i.imgur.com/Ch9B5YU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ihWmjjP.jpg

Before her death, Jocasta had recorded ALL of her knowledge(pertaining to the Jedi, Sith, and Force in general) onto these Holocrons in hopes of restarting the Jedi Order from scratch:
https://i.imgur.com/NQOMOYy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ucgXQeG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/n36At5M.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fOJNGEb.jpg

And in the same arc, Palpatine himself confirmed the ridiculous extent of Jocasta's knowledge:
https://i.imgur.com/Tfwy2Ug.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/S5cV8FD.jpg
"Jocasta Nu knows everything [...] Not just secrets of the light side of the Force. The dark side as well. Secrets that were not theirs to keep. Secrets even of the ancient Sith. Jocasta knows them all."



Moreover, in The Rise of Kylo Ren, Luke finds/collects another treasury from the High Republic era that was =/> Jocasta Nu's cache:
https://i.imgur.com/V87NKi5.jpg



That, in addition to studying the ancient texts and communing with the spirits of Yoda, Kenobi, and Anakin for a number of years before cutting himself off from the Force, could have certainly made canon Luke one of the most knowledgeable(and possibly powerful) beings in the entire mythos.



And of course, this is all secondary to Luke already being ~/> Vader as of RotJ... Which is immensely impressive in itself, given how beastly Vader has been portrayed in canon.



There are a few other tidbits I could add, but that's the gist of it.
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